Interpretations of Wu Wei?

[Phi92]

I also meditate, but how does a wu wei and zi ran meditation look like?

 

The only thing I feel when I meditate is energy and complete relaxation. At one point, I just am, without thoughts or stiffness, just a part of existence. When I finish and open my eyes, my vision is blurred and wavy for a moment and I feel really happy and good.

[ChiDragon]

I also meditate, but how does a wu wei and zi ran meditation look like?

 

Have you come up with the definition of Wu Wei or Zi ran yet......???

[Phi92]

 

Have you come up with the definition of Wu Wei or Zi ran yet......???

 

Haha, yes, although only more or less.

 

In Wing Chun Kuen, you have the concept of "the most direct path" to strike the opponent.

 

In the scientific method, philosophy and logic, you have Occam's razor - the most simple and elegant explanation is usually the correct one or at least the best beginning point.

 

I consider Wu Wei as practical life, decision making Occam's razor.

 

You choose the most direct and most simple way to achieve something.

 

Zi ran I consider to mean - acting naturally, being in accord with your own character, not being "fake", but to know thyself and to be yourself, to do what you love and what is natural to you. When it comes to decision making and ethics, I believe it means something simmilar to Wu Wei - acting in a simple and effective manner.

 

It is interesting how Ziran and Wu Wei seem to be very logical and systematic concepts when you think about it.

[Marblehead]

 

Have you come up with the definition of Wu Wei or Zi ran yet......???

Hehehe. Tzujan (Zi Ran): That's just the way life is.

[ChiDragon]

Hehehe. Tzujan (Zi Ran): That's just the way life is.

Who is asking you....MH.............???

 

You never spell Ziren correctly........

Edited February 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I think "interpretations of" and Wu Wei are an intangibility; not necessarily a contradiction of terms, yet more or less so, however.

[Marblehead]

Who is asking you....MH.............???

Hehehe. You ask a question within a thread I am tracking you will most likely get my opinion/understanding. You surely know that much about me by now!

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Hehehe. You ask a question within a thread I am tracking you will most likely get my opinion/understanding. You surely know that much about me by now!

not too keen on staying anonymous?

Edited February 13, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[ChiDragon]

Hehehe. You ask a question within a thread I am tracking you will most likely get my opinion/understanding. You surely know that much about me by now!

Yes, I know you by now. That's why I gave you this..... ............and this

[Marblehead]

not too keen on staying anonymous?

Not even a teeny bit.

[ChiDragon]

Haha, yes, although only more or less.

 

In Wing Chun Kuen, you have the concept of "the most direct path" to strike the opponent.

 

In the scientific method, philosophy and logic, you have Occam's razor - the most simple and elegant explanation is usually the correct one or at least the best beginning point.

 

I consider Wu Wei as practical life, decision making Occam's razor.

 

You choose the most direct and most simple way to achieve something.

 

Zi ran I consider to mean - acting naturally, being in accord with your own character, not being "fake", but to know thyself and to be yourself, to do what you love and what is natural to you. When it comes to decision making and ethics, I believe it means something simmilar to Wu Wei - acting in a simple and effective manner.

 

It is interesting how Ziran and Wu Wei seem to be very logical and systematic concepts when you think about it.

 

Where did hear about Wu Wei and Ziren....??? How was your source defined these two terms besides your own....???

[Phi92]

 

Where did hear about Wu Wei and Ziren....??? How was your source defined these two terms besides your own....???

 

That's my own interpretation. I'm not sure for Zi Ren as I am yet to study it, but for Wu Wei, I see that as a good interpretation for me. I don't really have a source other than myself. I don't see why that's not good?

[ChiDragon]

That's my own interpretation. I'm not sure for Zi Ren as I am yet to study it, but for Wu Wei, I see that as a good interpretation for me. I don't really have a source other than myself. I don't see why that's not good?

 

Those terms have to come from somewhere. Now you have you own conclusion. Don't you wish to compare your conclusion with the source for a more precise definition and understanding....???

Edited February 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Phi92]

 

Those term have to come from somewhere. Now you have you own conclusion. Don't you wish to compare your conclusion with the source for a more precise definition and understanding....???

 

I read more definitions on Wu Wei, from Wikipedia, About.com, discussions here, discussions on facebook, from sites on my own language etc.

 

Also, it's present in the Dao De Jing in more than one chapters, I believe.

[ChiDragon]

I read more definitions on Wu Wei, from Wikipedia, About.com, discussions here, discussions on facebook, from sites on my own language etc.

 

Also, it's present in the Dao De Jing in more than one chapters, I believe.

 

Yes, most of the translations about the concept of Wu Wei was to based on the characters other than the hidden philosophy behind it. From a superficial and direct translation of Wu Wei is to do nothing. Most native Chinese without knowing its concept are also misinterpret it that way. However, the "do nothing" or "no action" something to that nature was only half correct. To understand the other half we must add something else to it to make it more logical.

 

Wu Wei is take no action to interfere the nature path of things. Wu Wei implies to let Nature take its course without interference.

 

This is the most basic definition of Wu Wei defined in the Tao Te Ching. By knowing that, one will go a long way with it. Yes, there are more than one chapters in the Tao Te Ching had given in metaphors for its definition.

Edited February 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I read more definitions on Wu Wei, from Wikipedia, About.com, discussions here, discussions on facebook, from sites on my own language etc.

 

Also, it's present in the Dao De Jing in more than one chapters, I believe.

 

You might enjoy this read:

 

http://www.confuchina.com/05%20zongjiao/Lao%20Zi's%20Concept%20of%20Zi%20Ran.htm

 

Be careful of single source answers... unless that source is Dao itself.

 

 

Edit: Copy and paste the entire link as it won't post correctly [i think] due to a comma in the url.

Edited February 13, 2013 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

Please keep in mind interfering or any malice intend is not being Wu Wei.

Edited February 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Wayfarer]

Hi Phi92, I hope this answer comes out okay as typing on my phone with an over eager predictive text.

 

Here is my experience of Wu Wei...

 

Firstly a Taoist sage would not need to plan. A good result is the Tao, a bad result is the Tao and therefore all responses are met with a settled indifference. This is quite important as the ego that normally guides our actions is no longer at the forefront of what we do and think. When this is so, we find empowerment through surrender...to what is arising naturally. Phi92, things will be happening in and around your life right now and will be coming into being of their own accord...a little like the Creative of the I Ching and if we interfere with that perhaps out of frustration of things not happening as we want, or quickly enough we 'do' something and risk severing what is taking time to arise naturally.

 

Our thinking mind cannot be aware of what is arising beyond it, although through the sensitivity found in silence and stillness the 'arc' of the beginning and end of what is arising can be sensed. So when we act out of impatience or through plans we do so by overlooking what is naturally arising. Plans are made when we are dissatisfied with what we have. In not interfering or planning for something other, we find ourselves at rest and what is coming naturally to fruition is left to blossom as it should. This is how things arise without effort.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Heath

Edited February 13, 2013 by Wayfarer

[dawei]

Please keep in mind interfering or any malice intend is not being Wu Wei.

 

Something tells me your taking something personal.

 

I offered a link... he should not infer that all the answers are in that link as it is not easy for some to understand this particular writing. or in the DDJ alone... or any single book or link. He has said his path is varied so I think he'll understand the point. Be open to the universe and think 'allow' more than 'disallow'.

[ChiDragon]

Please keep in mind interfering or any malice intend is not being Wu Wei.

[thinker]

You choose the most direct and most simple way to achieve something.

 

I don't think that this is quite correct. The simplest and most direct way to end a small war might be to drop a nuke, but I wouldn't call that an application of wú wéi. There's an extent to which you're trying to interfere with nature as little as is possible, and to let nature do the heavy lifting for you. Imagine that the part of nature that you want to affect is a stream. Now imagine that there are two ways that you can accomplish something. One is very simple, and in the metaphor of the stream it requires that you throw a grenade into the stream, causing massive damage to the stream, all of the life within it, possibly even causing it to change course and interfere with other parts of the environment. Now imagine that you can achieve your goal by walking along the shore and sticking your finger into the stream here, and then here, and then here, each time creating a few small ripples that only last for a few seconds. This might be much less simple and direct, but I would consider it a much better application of wú wéi. Often it will turn out that the method used is very simple and direct, and this can give the illusion that simplicity and directness are the qualities being sought. But this is just a side-effect of the way that nature works.

[Phi92]

I see it less mystical and more practical. Using the natural and intuitive method to seek an answer or to do something.

 

I don't think the grenade example is good because it goes against the ideal of living in harmony with nature.

 

Wu Wei is, indeed, the most direct and elegant natural path to reach a goal.

 

I don't think giving up on plans and letting nature guide you is a good thing.

 

I just think those plans must be natural and follow the simplest and most effective way.

 

A sage would be someone who doesn't have to think too much to choose such a way.

 

It is intuitive and simple for him to decide. He is enlightened because he doesn't have to calculate for hours before making a course of action. The right, simple, natural and effective way comes to his mind instantly.

 

And by natural I mean: natural as in eco-friendly, natural as in intuitive and natural as in what fits you and is the true you.

 

That's how I see it anyway

[Phi92]

I see it less mystical and more practical. Using the natural and intuitive method to seek an answer or to do something.

 

I don't think the grenade example is good because it goes against the ideal of living in harmony with nature.

 

Wu Wei is, indeed, the most direct and elegant natural path to reach a goal.

 

I don't think giving up on plans and letting nature guide you is a good thing.

 

I just think those plans must be natural and follow the simplest and most effective way.

 

A sage would be someone who doesn't have to think too much to choose such a way.

 

It is intuitive and simple for him to decide. He is enlightened because he doesn't have to calculate for hours before making a course of action. The right, simple, natural and effective way comes to his mind instantly.

 

And by natural I mean: natural as in eco-friendly, natural as in intuitive and natural as in what fits you and is the true you.

 

That's how I see it anyway

 

The Sage simply knows what and when to do.

 

Edit: I wanted to edit the original text, but accidentally qouted it. Pardon me!

Edited February 13, 2013 by Phi92

[Mark Saltveit]

Phi92, the reason that ziran (also spelled tzu jan) keeps coming up, is this -- I interpret ziran as the way things organically unfold by their own nature. Each person, animal, plant, thing and all of them together. It's a radically dynamic viewpoint, compared to false static view of most scientific thinking. Like everyone dances in their own way, and all are dancing together.

 

Wu wei is to act without getting in the way of ziran -- not just because you want to be nice to nature, but because that is the natural way of the world, and you will be much more powerful and effective if you play along, instead of fighting it. In the U.S. we have a saying, "you can't fight the tide." Actually you can, but you will work very hard and probably not succeed anyway.

[ChiDragon]

The Sage simply knows what and when to do.

 

The Sage simply knows what and when to do(assuming with no harm done in any way). The "no harm done" must be hidden in the notion, in order, to fit the definition of Wu Wei.