Seeker of Wisdom

Chundi mantra

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This is the theory, and it is very profound.

But, let's look at the practices: hindu deities require devotion and prayers. To practice with a deity means basically... to pray and carrying some specific kind of vows.

This is what people do in buddhism and vedic religion.

You yourself say that the only discrimination is in term of function and I agree. Thus, in this case there's no difference in worshiping a hindu deity or his equivalent buddhist deity because the Buddha said "Work out your salvation" and not "Find a God who may save you".. not even "Adjust your external conditions so that you may cultivate in peace".

 

But then I ask: Why did Shakyamuni introduced those additional deities?

At his time, deities practices were observed. What was the use of this?

If Shakyamuni never introduced any gods worship practices, then we may assume that the deities themselves changed their outer names (or appeared in new manifestations). But, if this is the case, then Shakyamuni did something wrong that required a "fixing action" from the gods. He settled an incomplete dharma.

 

Not at all. Deities do not require worship and prayer to them, living beings assume that by doing so, they may get the good graces of these various gods etc.

 

The Buddha offered a method of worship and contemplation to those who needed it. It was then the only way some people would practice. So the method was set up as an expedient means.

Shakyamuni Buddha never would state that a god can save you. He taught and knew that only a cultivator can do it themselves, but a little help from a Buddha or Bodhisattva, God, etc, wouldn't hurt. That doesn't mean those beings GIVE you the salvation, it means they offer more teachings in which the cultivator has to work on themselves.

 

Shakyamuni Buddha introduced various Buddhas and other gods because there is more to the universe than just this planet. Our world has been visited by beings from all over this universe, so why not understand who they are? Why not make a mental connection with them, intuitive connection, and try to contact them to learn more?

 

It goes to say, some expedient means work for others, while some don't , thus other methods are presented. The Buddhism we see on this planet isn't all there is to it, the cultivation of the many traditions on this planet are not all there is. There is more, but that's only if the cultivator is open to it, meaning they have the capacity to comprehend the method.

 

In the "end", Shakyamuni Buddha didn't settle in an incomplete dharma. He expanded the already settled tradition present within the culture which he manifested in, nd also went further to let people know that there is more indeed, and this is how you get there. Along your path, you will find more, different methods and here are the methods to guard your mind with so as not to be taken away from that wisdom path.

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I have nothing more to add to what I've just said.

 

Thank you for your kindness and your patience in listening to me :)

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Not at all. Deities do not require worship and prayer to them, living beings assume that by doing so, they may get the good graces of these various gods etc.

 

The Buddha offered a method of worship and contemplation to those who needed it. It was then the only way some people would practice. So the method was set up as an expedient means.

Shakyamuni Buddha never would state that a god can save you. He taught and knew that only a cultivator can do it themselves, but a little help from a Buddha or Bodhisattva, God, etc, wouldn't hurt. That doesn't mean those beings GIVE you the salvation, it means they offer more teachings in which the cultivator has to work on themselves.

 

Shakyamuni Buddha introduced various Buddhas and other gods because there is more to the universe than just this planet. Our world has been visited by beings from all over this universe, so why not understand who they are? Why not make a mental connection with them, intuitive connection, and try to contact them to learn more?

 

It goes to say, some expedient means work for others, while some don't , thus other methods are presented. The Buddhism we see on this planet isn't all there is to it, the cultivation of the many traditions on this planet are not all there is. There is more, but that's only if the cultivator is open to it, meaning they have the capacity to comprehend the method.

 

In the "end", Shakyamuni Buddha didn't settle in an incomplete dharma. He expanded the already settled tradition present within the culture which he manifested in, nd also went further to let people know that there is more indeed, and this is how you get there. Along your path, you will find more, different methods and here are the methods to guard your mind with so as not to be taken away from that wisdom path.

 

It's like asking your parents for advice on buying a house or on your marriage. With regards to the gods or buddhas, it's ok to make a prayer to them for help. I think this depends on clairvoyance too. One who is not clairvoyant will not easily notice these things. Although, the funny thing is that people do these mantras and the spirit, diety, ect. visit them. It's like how you pray for a hungry ghost and then that hungry ghost either shows up when you're awake or when you're in a dream to give their thanks.

 

A lot of this stuff can't be taken from a third person view. It's like chi. People look at an outside view and say nah there's no such thing as chi but if they did the stuff, they'll feel it. With respect to gods, how can you know what the gods are like when you don't even talk to them. So you go ahead and doubt someone else experience with them. Such foolishness! Too much of that going around like how people talk about freemasonry and don't even read their articles and/or participate in their practices. Or even associate with them.

 

Like Lin said, when it comes to the sacred texts, you can tell they're from a cultivation standpoint. But if you haven't cultivated to such level, how could you know? You might as well shut your mouth or cite outside sources.

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..when it comes to the sacred texts, you can tell they're from a cultivation standpoint. But if you haven't cultivated to such level, how could you know? You might as well shut your mouth or cite outside sources.

That's why we have commentaries. If we were to read the Sutras straight up and awaken, there would be no need for commentaries. Even if we "Got it", assuming that we did without checking to make sure is just arrogant and shows insecurity.

 

Commentaries offer the cultivator a deeper understanding of the teaching. It shouldn't be a commentary based on the views of such and such venerable one. If it is, than it isn't a wholesome commentary, and would most likely lead one off the right path of practice. A commentary isn't in one's view, preference. Rather it is an explanation of the teachings from a mind of non-discrimination, which should be in accord with the Dharma (teachings, essence of how the teachings are expounded).

Edited by 林愛偉

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It has been such a delightful discussion. I really appreciate the insight you brought and the points you made. Your patience and kindness is very much appreciated as well.

 

Thank you so very much! :)

 

I have nothing more to add to what I've just said.

 

Thank you for your kindness and your patience in listening to me :)

Edited by 林愛偉

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An interesting experience someone reported:

 

My Third Eye Chakra ( a.k.a. the 6th Chakra ) opened on January 3rd, 2009, a Saturday, at 6:44 a.m. as I recited the Zhunti mantra for the 169,800th time. Although the Zhunti Buddha, or an emissary, has not yet "visited" me, I've had many supernatural things happen to me these last three years, e.g. water appeared in an unexpected container on three separate occasions.

From http://wwwcine-man.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/spiritual-milestone.html?zx=785b6674fef4fc4b.

Edited by Seeker of the Self
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It would be interesting to ask to the author what does he means by saying "third eye opened". :P

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I believe Liao Fan's Four Lessons also talked about writing the mantra as a no-thought dedication and meditation.

 

 

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=235

 

(ED: Note that this first part belongs to the Chinese Mahayana Buddhist Morning Office as a prelude gatha)
稽首皈依蘇悉帝, 頭面頂禮七俱胝, 我今稱讚大準提, 惟願慈悲垂加護
I bow my head and place my reliance in her wonderful achievement,
My face is on the ground to pay adoration to seven billions (Buddhas),
Now I praise the Great Cundi,
Beseech her compassion and mercy to bestow her protection.
(ED: below is the actual Dharani)
NAMAḤ SAPTĀNĀṂ SAMYAK-SAṂBUDDHA KOṬĪNĀM
TADYATHĀ: OṂ CALE CULI CUNDI SVĀHĀ
Adoration to seven (sāptā) billions (koṭī) perfectly, completely enlightened beings
Thus: Oh! awake, arise, purity* is auspiciously completed!

 

 

The Dharani in Mandarin syllables:

 

南謨颯哆南

三藐三勃陀俱胝南

怛姪他

唵折戾

主戾

准締

娑婆訶

 

na mo san duo nan san miao san pu tuo ju zhi nan da zhi tuo nan zhe li zhu li zhun ti suo po he

Edited by Harmonious Emptiness

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I can feel a grain of clogged chi being pushed gently from the centre of the heart chakra, causing a very slight ache. I look forward to it finally clearing. :)

Edited by Seeker of the Self
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Reading The Platform Sutra has helped me realise another side to this mantra: chanting not to an external Zhunti, but to the qualities of Zhunti lying latent within my own mindstream, covered by the hindrances.

 

 

This mantra is known for helping to unleash prajna, which is why it's advocated in Zen. Maybe chanting with this understanding will help that side of things, which is what I really care about, along with shamatha and virtue - the chi stuff is just (tasty) icing on the cake compared to that. :)

Edited by Seeker of the Self

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Has anyone heart of the Kleem sound or mantra? It's supposed to draw to you the things you want, as in material things, and particularly women (for men). I was doing this mantra for a while at the end of last year and it did seem like that my luck with women (which isn't really all that much lately, not that I'm really trying too hard) improved. I stopped though mainly because my understanding of Buddhism is that instead of trying to fulfill our desires we should be attempting to reduce them. What I'm not sure of is if that was a misunderstanding on my part, or is a mantra like this best avoided? I've been doing the Zhunti mantra lately and was also wondering if doing both would conflict or not?

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Has anyone heart of the Kleem sound or mantra? It's supposed to draw to you the things you want, as in material things, and particularly women (for men). I was doing this mantra for a while at the end of last year and it did seem like that my luck with women (which isn't really all that much lately, not that I'm really trying too hard) improved. I stopped though mainly because my understanding of Buddhism is that instead of trying to fulfill our desires we should be attempting to reduce them. What I'm not sure of is if that was a misunderstanding on my part, or is a mantra like this best avoided? I've been doing the Zhunti mantra lately and was also wondering if doing both would conflict or not?

Vajrayana has practices specifically for attracting these types of things. If you feel that this will help you in some way, then I don't see what the problem is ::shrugs::

 

Bill Bodri explains, in his book "25 Doors To Meditation," how to use the Zhunti mantra to attract more wealth, a gf/wife, etc.

 

Here's an article from his website that deals with this topic: http://www.meditationexpert.com/life-wisdom/l_karma_and_reincarnation.htm

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Vajrayana has practices specifically for attracting these types of things. If you feel that this will help you in some way, then I don't see what the problem is ::shrugs::

 

Bill Bodri explains, in his book "25 Doors To Meditation," how to use the Zhunti mantra to attract more wealth, a gf/wife, etc.

 

Here's an article from his website that deals with this topic: http://www.meditationexpert.com/life-wisdom/l_karma_and_reincarnation.htm

 

Thanks :-)

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It seems in my very limited experience that almost every mantra has the potential for attraction of the opposite sex, from the Jesus Prayer tot the Great Mani.

 

Rarer is the mantra that attracts real money...

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Interesting experience yesterday. I was chanting the mantra, with prostrations. For a few seconds, I saw little sparks of white/gold light floating around.

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I found this on yahoo answer

 

 

 

Sudden change in blood pressure in the blood vessles around the the optice nerve will sometimes produced tiny currents that the optic nerve percieves as tiny spots. Think, were you changing position just before you noticed the tiny spots? Laying down then sitting or standing up? Sitting and then standing? Bending over then straightening up? Or do you have a cold and your nose is stuffed up? That too, can make the little changes in Blood pressure, localized around the optic nerve.

It's really nothing to worry about. Just about everyone has these but, most don't even notice it or aren't aware of it.

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I found this on yahoo answer

 

Yahoo answers is hardly the place to go to for the knowledge of meditational physiology and contemplative physical transformations. Nevertheless, "let go" is the guiding principle on the path.

 

 

Mandrake

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Let's not make this another thread diverted with an argument about something minor... DRT is probably right.

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Let's not make this another thread diverted with an argument about something minor... DRT is probably right.

 

Yes, he probably is.

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Interesting experience yesterday. I was chanting the mantra, with prostrations. For a few seconds, I saw little sparks of white/gold light floating around.

 

I had this happen to me yesterday as well hmmm...

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I think Bill Bodri says that is chi affecting the optic nerve.

 

I think that if the Qi can affect the eyes significantly in meditation, one should be able to heal eye problems as myopia.

Qi heals every part of the body, why not the eyes?

But, in reality you can see many professional monks with thick eyeglasses: from the tibetans to the theravadins, to the zenists, etc...

 

In my limited experience, Bodri proved himself to be an incomplete (and to a certain extent incorrect) source of information on cultivation gong-fu. He's not the bible :D

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