The "Use" of Pain, Hunger, Lack of Sleep and other Discomforts in Meditations and Yogas

[tulku]

I have always been amazed by how the yogis in India have trained their bodies and minds to meditate in such painful positions for so long.

 

Some have even meditate in crazy weird yogic positions without food and without sleeping.

 

I am beginning to wonder if we can only unlock our latent abilities in our mind if we are able to train our mind to such an extent that it is able to override pain and hunger and lack of sleep etc etc..

 

And please don't give me any of the bs about the "middle path" quoted by buddha..

 

how do you know all the initial crazy shit done by the buddha prior to his middle path philosophies didn't actually train his mind to such an extent that when he actually goes onto the middle path.. the karmic obstructions are already cleared by his extreme yogic training in the first few years?

[tulku]

I was told by a master of great attainment that meditation begins where comfort ends, and cultivation begins where pain starts

[Protector]

hm, I'm glad you show so much interest in kundalini

[Fū Yue]

If you want power, hide behind the skirt of your mother, the one who spun you out of gossamer and snakeskin.

[Jetsun]

The way of the fakir is one valid route to development but it is a pretty unbalanced and haphazard one and to say it is the only way means ignoring all the other people who have developed in other paths. You talk in what psychologists call black and white thinking Tulku, things are the only way or they are not a way at all, its not very healthy and often leads to extremism in one form or another.

[baiqi]

Sure, go ahead.

 

Sleep on needles, whip yourself, torture yourself. Actually....kill yourself

 

That's what you really want, don't you? Get rid of this shitty life. All life on earth is crap, so we should avoid it. By killing ourselves. What better way?

 

Think: in death, you don't have a body, so you don't crave for sex nor food. So, what is better than that? So if you really want to escape this prison called life, just do it. Don't waste your time on mediating, being some kind of monk. No. Just kill yourself.

 

End note: this post was purely ironical. I don't encourage anyone to kill his or herself, because, hey, I value life.

[Ish]

I was told by a master of great attainment that meditation begins where comfort ends, and cultivation begins where pain starts

 

I would say seeking out pain, just as chasing after pleasure, would be an incorrect method.

However under the guidance of a teacher pushing past barriers can cause pain, in which case you don't let it halt your progress.

[thelerner]

I remember going through a picture book on extreme ascetic Indian holymen. It pictured some who'd point one hand straight up there entire lives. They'd sit alone subsisting on very little pointing, all day and night, muscles and bones atrophying. In some ways it was an awesome display of human dedication, but their main power seemed to be in pointing and self denial.

 

Its good to push ourselves. I think it was TaowMeow, who I highly respect, wrote 20 to 30 minutes is relaxation, real meditation happens at 4 hours (this was years ago). Establishing discipline is good, but get too far out of balance and you crash. Or fall into the trap where the goal is discomfort and not the fruit of practice.

 

 

Maybe the Buddhas story points to there is nothing wrong with extreme practices early on, but ultimately they have to be dropped. Its also worth noting he did them in a community of others, so he had elders monitoring him. If you're doing anything extreme its important to have an experienced mentor guiding. Extreme practices (ie long fasts) can mess with your mind and you may need someone to say, its time to slow things down or stop.

 

my 2 bits.

[Dainin]

Tulku, if you really want the answer, what is stopping you from finding out for yourself?

 

[Aaron]

I have always been amazed by how the yogis in India have trained their bodies and minds to meditate in such painful positions for so long.

 

Some have even meditate in crazy weird yogic positions without food and without sleeping.

 

I am beginning to wonder if we can only unlock our latent abilities in our mind if we are able to train our mind to such an extent that it is able to override pain and hunger and lack of sleep etc etc..

 

And please don't give me any of the bs about the "middle path" quoted by buddha..

 

how do you know all the initial crazy shit done by the buddha prior to his middle path philosophies didn't actually train his mind to such an extent that when he actually goes onto the middle path.. the karmic obstructions are already cleared by his extreme yogic training in the first few years?

 

Hmm... I think you might want to learn more about Buddhism than just what you've found on Wikipedia and Youtube? Jerard already explained to you in your other BS thread, that the Buddha actually discouraged these kinds of things. Oh wait, that's probably on Wikipedia... okay you need to pay more attention to what you're reading on Wikipedia and stop watching so much Youtube.

 

 

Aaron

Edited April 29, 2012 by Twinner

[tulku]

as long as one feels attracted by pleasures or aversion towards pain.. his mind will never be free..

[tulku]

Sure, go ahead.

 

Sleep on needles, whip yourself, torture yourself. Actually....kill yourself

 

That's what you really want, don't you? Get rid of this shitty life. All life on earth is crap, so we should avoid it. By killing ourselves. What better way?

 

Think: in death, you don't have a body, so you don't crave for sex nor food. So, what is better than that? So if you really want to escape this prison called life, just do it. Don't waste your time on mediating, being some kind of monk. No. Just kill yourself.

 

End note: this post was purely ironical. I don't encourage anyone to kill his or herself, because, hey, I value life.

 

your path is not called spirituality..

 

yours is called self-destruction..

 

but then true spirituality is called destruction of the self..

 

so...

Edited April 29, 2012 by tulku

[baiqi]

but then true spirituality is called destruction of the self..

 

Not exactly: transformation of the self. There is destruction in a way, just like a butterfly is no longer a worm. The worm no longer exists, but it's a completely different thing than a dead worm.

[tulku]

but then true spirituality is called destruction of the self..

 

Not exactly: transformation of the self. There is destruction in a way, just like a butterfly is no longer a worm. The worm no longer exists, but it's a completely different thing than a dead worm.

 

sometimes in extraordinary cases worms must be destroyed before they can be transformed into butterflies

 

as long as man is attached to his senses and the pursuit of pleasures especially through food, sex and entertainment, he will always be reborn in the sense realms unable to break free of samsara

 

as long as man is adverse to pain, he will always be unable to break free of samsara

Edited April 29, 2012 by tulku

[Fū Yue]

sometimes in extraordinary cases worms must be destroyed before they can be transformed into butterflies

 

That's the most hilarious thing i've heard in a while.

[tulku]

That's the most hilarious thing i've heard in a while.

 

sometimes billions of worms have to be destroyed before the whole can of worms is transformed into a race of butterflies

[jacklantegi]

Can you please explain what this means? Since when do worms transform into butterflies?

 

 

 

sometimes in extraordinary cases worms must be destroyed before they can be transformed into butterflies