Qigong master projects his chi energy (video)

[spyrelx]

Hey Taoist81,

 

Thanks.

[freeform]

The thing is one needs to strike a balance between skepticism and blind faith... The point is that blind faith will not lead you to anything great, but blind faith can also disguise itself as skepticism!

 

Blind faith in science is the same as blind faith in religion or whatever... Nothing can really be 'proved' in science, so dont wait for science to prove all these 'extraodinary claims'...

 

You also have to consider that science in the western world is as political as anything else here - most funding for studies comes from petrochemical, pharmaceutical and 'defense' industries... do they really care that water can hold intentions? well only if it can make money or kill people, yes! Does the Amazing Randi really want to give away his million? Do hospitals really want to report all their mystery cures? Does the pharmaceutical industry really want you to be healthy? etc etc...

 

Many scientists are trying to remain independent and objective - these arent the guys who have the funding to set up big double blind trials on 'out there' theories...

 

Then we have Quantum Mechanics - where the observer affects the observed by simply observing... you say the world is not flat - well to a 2 dimensional being it may well be! Grass is green? well only because the light that reflects from the surface of what we call 'grass' interacts with our eyes in such a way that produces the distinct 'colour' we call green... to a snake the grass will look completely different...

 

so anyhoo - I just mean to illustrate that blind faith in science is no better than blind faith in religion...

 

Things are often much smipler than the 'mystical' explanations we get... a hypnotist can make a man lose all his strength, just like a mystical chi master can... but the hypnotist needs 3 years training the master needs 20 - the hypnotist could do it to many people, the master will usually do it to a long term pupil...

 

In the case of this video I believe it's simple hypnosis - the master may genuinly believe that it's through some other process that he can do this and it may be true - it's just his process (although different aims and details) overlaps exactly with the hypnotist's process...

 

That's why I find someone like Robert Peng more interesting - you can use your body to really feel the effect of what he does...

[DentyDao]

Just a quick question, Sean - not really part of this thread... How many yin yang gong masters has David produced? is David himself a yin yang gong master? are there any westerners that have the yin yang gong ability after studying with David's teachers?

 

It's a fair question. David's current teacher has produced over 30 masters all in good health, despite Michael Winn's latest claims that these are extreme practices

 

David is not a master, by his own addmission, but he is well on his way. I don't know of any other westerner who is or has undergone this training successfully; that doesn't mean ther aren't any. David is a pioneer in that regard. He does have students who have been accepted by the masters he knows.

[Taoist81]

The thing is one needs to strike a balance between skepticism and blind faith... The point is that blind faith will not lead you to anything great, but blind faith can also disguise itself as skepticism!

 

Blind faith in science is the same as blind faith in religion or whatever... Nothing can really be 'proved' in science, so dont wait for science to prove all these 'extraodinary claims'...

 

 

----Believe me I agree. Blind faith is blind faith even if it is in skepticism or science. All sides must accept their limitations.

 

You also have to consider that science in the western world is as political as anything else here - most funding for studies comes from petrochemical, pharmaceutical and 'defense' industries... do they really care that water can hold intentions? well only if it can make money or kill people, yes! Does the Amazing Randi really want to give away his million? Do hospitals really want to report all their mystery cures? Does the pharmaceutical industry really want you to be healthy? etc etc...

 

Many scientists are trying to remain independent and objective - these arent the guys who have the funding to set up big double blind trials on 'out there' theories...

 

Then we have Quantum Mechanics - where the observer affects the observed by simply observing... you say the world is not flat - well to a 2 dimensional being it may well be! Grass is green? well only because the light that reflects from the surface of what we call 'grass' interacts with our eyes in such a way that produces the distinct 'colour' we call green... to a snake the grass will look completely different...

 

 

Again, agreed, except one doesn't even have to all upon Quantum Mechanics to posit that the observer affects the observation. that has been well donumented in psychology for quite some time. And yes, unfortunately science is highly politicized in our society. Randi probably doesn't want to give away his million, but that doesn't make the challenge any less viable. Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary proofs. And an extraordinary proof would be hard to deny, especially since he has offered to accept "unbiased" judges, like those picked by the claimant.

 

 

so anyhoo - I just mean to illustrate that blind faith in science is no better than blind faith in religion...

 

Things are often much smipler than the 'mystical' explanations we get... a hypnotist can make a man lose all his strength, just like a mystical chi master can... but the hypnotist needs 3 years training the master needs 20 - the hypnotist could do it to many people, the master will usually do it to a long term pupil...

 

In the case of this video I believe it's simple hypnosis - the master may genuinly believe that it's through some other process that he can do this and it may be true - it's just his process (although different aims and details) overlaps exactly with the hypnotist's process...

 

That's why I find someone like Robert Peng more interesting - you can use your body to really feel the effect of what he does...

 

The question your suggestion raises is, if the hypnotist and the "Master" are doing the same thing, what is the use of the 20 + years of training? If he doesn't even realize he is using "hypnosis" then who has the "secret teachings" the "master" or the stage hypnotist who realizes what he is doing?

 

Taoist81

[DentyDao]

I think skepticism is healthy too. Again I'm not asking anyone to accept anything on 'blind' faith. I'm just suggesting that perhaps 'blind' skepticism should be examined.

 

S

Edited November 6, 2006 by seandenty

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[spyrelx]

Wow 30 masters! he's a productive chap! - so how long does it take to master yin yang gong? How long has David been with his current teacher?

 

 

There's a lot of stuff about this on the foundation practice website and I think that it should probably stay there (this is for cohesiveness and not about secrecy) . Those interested should check it out. (Sean if you think I'm wrong about this feel free to correct me).

 

 

http://foundation73.proboards55.com/index.cgi

Edited November 6, 2006 by spyrelx

[DentyDao]

Your probably right

[DentyDao]

Edited November 6, 2006 by seandenty

[freeform]

.

Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[DentyDao]

Who knows, his abilities were the result of a childhood episode and not any kind of "training,' so clearly the answer is probably no.

[DentyDao]

Here's one more. I couldn't resist this one:

 

"Uri bent a spoon for me, the first time he did it, I thought there must be a trick. The second time I was stunned, completely, completely stunnedand amazed. It just bent in my hand. I've never seen anything like it. It takes a lot to impress me. Uri Geller is for real and anyone who doesn't recognise that is either deluding himself, or is a very sad person."

David Blain, (American Magician. Star of ABC's Television Specials.)

 

 

 

Hey, I just noticed I'm now a "Dao Wizard"... I'm waiting for my powers to manifest... someone give me a spoon! All this posting has finally paid off and now I can retire and return to the source of all, the ever present Dao...

[Smile]

You should know for your own benifit that Peng is not a Yin Yang Gong Master of the kind I have been sharing about. ...He is also not teaching his abilities which I think are genuine by the way. I have heard that his healings have some success behind them, but for those hoping to go beyond and actually learn these things, I would question the number of students he has produced who are yin yang gong masters- 0%.

Sean, what sources you base these statements on?

Edited November 7, 2006 by Smile

[spyrelx]

Sean,

 

Pretty impressive list of testimonials. You've convinced me, he's real.

 

Here's an interesting question to ponder. He appears about as unique as they come. I'm not fmiliar of anyone in the chinese area (or any other shamanistic or spiritual practice) who is reputed to do stuff like that (maybe some mind reading, but not the metal bending stuff or even the seed sprouting stuff).

 

I mean, particularly now that he's world famous, you'd think that anyone who had the power to bend metal by touch would add it to their demonstrations. You'd think the chinese in particular would be all over this -- mastery over the metal element, etc.

 

So whatever he's got (even if he doesn't know how he's got it) seems completely different than the sort of internal power/energy/etc that guys like you, David, John Chang, Wang LiPing etc. are after.

 

Indeed, I wonder what a guy like Wang LiPing would think of Geller. Would he say "there's a guy with tremendous chi power"? Or would he just say, "there's a guy who was born a bit different but wholly unimpressive, like someone born with an extra finger"?

[Taoist81]

Sean,

 

Impressive list. However, where did it come from? There are no references for your sources. David Blaine (agreed an irrisistible qoute) IS a big fan of Geller's. But the sources that are searchable only come up on Geller's site. Also, it is not just Randi that doubts Geller's claims: http://skepdic.com/geller.html there are many links on this page alone. The quote from Randi is great though: "If Geller is using psychic powers to bend spoons, he's doing it the hard way." One of the reasons many sleight of hand artists are so anal about keeping their secrets is because many of the tricks can fool the smartest of us. I am not saying it is definitely a trick, just that it probably is. Again, there are far to many instances of Criss Angel pulling off more impressive stunts than bending a spoon and he only jokingly claims "powers" (ever seen Geller "walk on water"?). There are many more people out there bending spoons that admit they are illusionists than those claiming it is a real power.

 

Taoist81

[thelerner]

Forget Geller (I like my spoons straight), we can learn soo much from the Magicians mentioned. People like Chris Angel, David Blaine, the Great Randi and dozen or so others are incredible examples of people who've trained in incredible stunts in mind body through hard long practice.

 

The ability to come up with a near impossible stunt. Like Blaine holding his breath 6 to 8 minutes. While showing his training saying how easy 3 or 4 is. Chris Angel lifting up car, no tricks (that I could see) just cold training mind and body. It goes back to Houdini and ofcourse way further then that. The ability to work extremely hard at a stunt, accomplish it and move on.

 

So much of our practices are for long term steady progress. They take on a near impossible task, strategize, obsess and get it done. I wonder how much we could accomplish with such incredible focus.

 

My hats are off to these people. I have David Blaine's book. I'd love to see a comparison on the magic greats done as how to guide for how they train for there extreme feats.

 

Michael

[Uncle Fester]

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Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[Buddy]

Pleeeze! First the magus, then Shi Ming, now Geller? Fake, faker, fakest. I'm shocked that any of you actually even remotely think that Geller is real.

[thaddeus]

Pleeeze! First the magus, then Shi Ming, now Geller? Fake, faker, fakest. I'm shocked that any of you actually even remotely think that Geller is real.

Why do you think Shi Ming is in the same category of trickery as the other two? The spoons and fire, to me, are blatant acts of trickery. The stuff shi ming was doing, again in my opinion, is largely self deception as well. I can do some amazing things with people who are 'sensitive' like project my chi into their bodies and make then bend over or feel tingles, etc. But guess what, they are creating this themselves, because if I have them close their eyes so that they don't know what I'm doing, it hardly works at all. And this was the result of a famous test done by a teenager for school no less. She had all the test subjects indicate if they felt 'energy' from the reiki or whatever healers in the study. Most of the time, they indicated 'yes' or 'no' accurately. When he healer was hidden from view such as with a blindfold, they were UNABLE to detect any sense of energy.

The supposed martial arts student who was trying to 'throw' shi ming was shameless, i agree, how stupid did that look. But again, he was studying for a number of years and fell under the spell. So even though it's 'fake' I do not believe Shi Ming believed it was fake. I think he really believed he had these powers. The ironic thing is that we all do..we all can do what Shi Ming was doing.

T

[Buddy]

Hmmm. I'm not convinced you are incorrect. I met Andy Nugent-Head (the American in the show) a couple of times when he brought Xie Pei Qi here in the beginning. At that point he strongly intimated that Shi Ming was a fake. His wude wouldn't allow him to state it outright. I was not so encumbered. We never discussed Shi Ming's thoughts.

[Uncle Fester]

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Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[Buddy]

Look, if you want to believe in these hokey magic tricks, fine But please don't presume to preach to those of us who aren't taken in by them. All these guys are fakers.

[Uncle Fester]

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Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[clearclouds]

This whole lin kong jin thing seems to be one of the hottest topics out there. my 2c is that the vid looks legit.

 

Does anyone know if this master is still around because if he is his longevity would be an achievement in its own right.

[Buddy]

And you've proved mine. Keeping an open mind does not mean to think that brcuase anything MIGHT be possible, some things are. As I said, I know Andrew Nugent-Head from the Bill Moyers clip. He told me its all cooperation. The Majus trick is a well known magic dodge. Here's what wikipedia says about Geller, I'll leave it to you to do the rest of your research:

 

Critics note Geller's demonstrations are not always successful. For example, he is not always able during his "telepathic" drawing demonstrations to define the shape or image drawn. [1] Geller has also at times cancelled performances or failed to produce the expected results, sometimes blaming his apparent lack of psychic power on some interference, exhaustion, or lack of cooperation by the subjects. He was paid to investigate the kidnapping of Hungarian model Helga Farkas, and although he predicted she would be found alive and in good health, she was murdered by her kidnappers [2]. He was reportedly unable to bend a spoon for Richard Feynman, as mentioned in the physicist's book Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!.

 

Geller was unable to bend any cutlery during a 1973 appearance on The Tonight Show where the spoons he was to bend had been preselected by Johnny Carson. Earlier in his career, Carson had been an amateur stage magician, as had James Randi who advised Carson on how to thwart potential trickery. Randi explained in a 1993 episode of the television show NOVA: "I was asked to prevent any trickery. I told them to provide their own props and not to let Geller or his people anywhere near them.

 

Noel Edmonds was a television prankster who often used hidden cameras to record celebrities in Candid Camera-like situations for his television programme, Noel's House Party. In 1996, Edmonds planned a stunt in which shelves would fall from the walls of a room while Geller was in it.

 

However, the cameras recorded footage of Geller from angles he wasn't expecting. Skeptics claim the video shows Geller forcibly bending the spoon as he stands up, while claiming to to have done it psychically. Geller later claimed that he knew that Edmonds' crew had been filming, and that he made the shelves fall off the wall with his psychic powers."

 

If you think being gullible equates to having an open mind, that says more about you than perhaps you realize.