Vegetarianism

[Jetsun]

I will add though that the biggest block to the Shamanic process and connecting to the environment in a deeper way is salt, meat isn't the problem it is salt in Amazonian shamanism.

[Ya Mu]

Defending vegetarian lifestyle and animals, period. No exaggerated appelations or sarcasm needed.

No problem with anyone defending veggie lifestyle. That is my preferred diet as well, with some fresh fish if possible.

 

But what you came back with was a high-schoolish emotional rant instead of addressing the points I made. Try addressing the points.

 

Folks! The pig poem was a joke. I am not a fan of pork. I also do not look down my nose at people who do eat pork although I do encourage them to eat only lean cuts from pasture raised.

 

The other points I made are valid. There is no spiritual advantage to eating one way or the other. "Spiritual" is about how one approaches life. Eat veggie and don't attempt to help others? Is that better "spiritually" than one who eats meat and does?

 

The bottom line in this argument is that some people can do only veggies and some people's health suffers. One of my points is that for those posting about how "spiritual" it made them; if they are included as one of the "veggie evangelists" who look down on others for eating meat with a "holier than thou" attitude, they are not acting "spiritual" by any means. Some people do need to eat meat.

 

In general, health-wise, our population in the USA eats far too much meat and far too fatty meat. If one does eat meat, the pastured raised lean cuts are far better than the processed crap in the grocery store. If one eats veggies, then the chemical polluted crap in the grocery store is not really great for health. Much preferred, and the taste reflects this, is growing your own veggies. Even if one lives in an apartment there is usually a way to grow a part of what you eat. If you absolutely can't do this try to purchase from a farmer's market from farmer that grows veggies without pesticides.

[Ya Mu]

Meat doesn't help spiritualy at all, any "spiritual teacher" saying otherwise is bullshit to me.

 

That does not mean you necesserily need to become vegetarian to be spiritual ( honestly most of people can reduce their meat consumption A LOT), but at least you must not try to find false excuses.

...

And I think that any "spiritual teacher" who thinks it does while making blank statements without regard to situation or detail, has read too many books versus true cultivation. That is "bullshit" to me. A "spiritual teacher" that does not consider everyone is no spiritual teacher.

I didn't say it helps. See my point(s) in the post(s) above.

 

If you think what I posted is "false excuses" then address the points I raised. I agree that most people can lower their meat consumption. But the fact remains that some people suffer when going totally meatless.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Ya Mu

[Tom Lin]

Plant-based diets are connected to spiritualism because just look at how badly abused animals are in the factories where they are killed. There should be no doubt in anyones mind that they are being abused, traumatized, and subjected into extreme fear for their lives.

 

And think about it, they are killed in that state of mind and then later on you are consuming in "essence" that state of mind or their energy during that moment.

 

 

It all just boils down too whether you believe in this type of pervasive spiritual energy.

[Jetsun]

Plant-based diets are connected to spiritualism because just look at how badly abused animals are in the factories where they are killed. There should be no doubt in anyones mind that they are being abused, traumatized, and subjected into extreme fear for their lives.

 

And think about it, they are killed in that state of mind and then later on you are consuming in "essence" that state of mind or their energy during that moment.

 

 

It all just boils down too whether you believe in this type of pervasive spiritual energy.

 

I have heard people say this before, but this is based on the assumption that the emotional energy remains in the dead flesh, perhaps all such energy and imprints leave soon after the animal dies.

[idiot_stimpy]

My view is, if I cannot kill the animal myself then why should I get someone else to do my dirty work?

[Tom Lin]

I have heard people say this before, but this is based on the assumption that the emotional energy remains in the dead flesh, perhaps all such energy and imprints leave soon after the animal dies.

 

 

But the thing is spirituality puts into all account the physical, emotional and intellectual part of a beings energy. The beings spirit energy may have left after it is deceased but i feel like the physical emotion and intellectual part sort of stays when you kill it because that energy is part of this realm we live in....so its not like its just going to dissipate out to nowhere. Its going to be within the system of that animal somewhere...for example within the DNA coding.

[Protector]

"Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."

[Aaron]

So i recently decided to go vegetarian and was just looking for advice or experience from people who have been or are still on a vegetarian diet.

 

I decided to go veggie because of environmental and spiritual reasons. I've been eating relatively healthy, plenty of greens and daily oranges. Beans, greens, tofu, cereal.

 

 

To the ones who have been long time vegetarian...

 

What diets have worked best for you?

 

Also

 

I am a little worried about the long term effects of it. My research online has told me that people have succeeded but there also people who experience negative repercussions because of it. They cite that they feel less energy (peacefulness?) and things such as weakness or maybe even forgetfulness.

 

 

 

So as a question coming from a 20 year old male....what is a correct way of going about this and what should i expect?

 

I was a vegetarian for around eight years. I never had a problem with energy. I was taught to eat complete proteins. I ate brown rice and beans ALOT. Brown rice takes some getting used to (there is a reason most people eat white rice), but it is one of the best complete proteins you can find for the money.

 

Another thing that helps is to find ways to convert your old favorite dishes to vegetarian dishes, either by substituting TVP (textured vegetable protein) or by substituting a vegetable (i.e. vegetable lasagna.)

 

I am no longer a vegetarian. At one point I found it necessary, but later decided it wasn't. I wont tell you what is right or wrong in this regard, just do what you feel is right so long as it does not cause you any harm or anyone else.

 

Aaron

[mYTHmAKER]

Nice going Ya Mu you and Sinfest have managed to hijack the subject of the thread.

The original question was along the lines of seeking advice from vegetarians re how to go about it.

It's interesting that every time vegetarianism comes up there are those who become defensive or childish and

have to jump in with their justifications for eating flesh. I for one am not interested in debating the issue.

I suggested to Sinfest he start a meat eating thread - post there and be happy.

[Protector]

Nice going Ya Mu you and Sinfest have managed to hijack the subject of the thread.

The original question was along the lines of seeking advice from vegetarians re how to go about it.

It's interesting that every time vegetarianism comes up there are those who become defensive or childish and

have to jump in with their justifications for eating flesh. I for one am not interested in debating the issue.

I suggested to Sinfest he start a meat eating thread - post there and be happy.

 

Don't

 

 

fine fine, I'll be nice

[Ya Mu]

Plant-based diets are connected to spiritualism because just look at how badly abused animals are in the factories where they are killed. There should be no doubt in anyones mind that they are being abused, traumatized, and subjected into extreme fear for their lives.

 

And think about it, they are killed in that state of mind and then later on you are consuming in "essence" that state of mind or their energy during that moment.

 

 

It all just boils down too whether you believe in this type of pervasive spiritual energy.

You make a good point about the energetics. This is why I said properly butchered meat makes a heck of a difference and that I personally don't believe in eating the processed meat, unless there is nothing else to eat. Pasture raised and home butchered has significant difference in energetics.

However, it still doesn't "connect one to spiritualism".

Eating plants harvested by people who are negative, who curse while they work, who have no love for others, which are contaminated by the chemicals; have you considered what this does to the energetics of what you are putting into your body? Gonna make you more spiritual? Nada. This is why I suggest growing your own veggies with love and good energetics and without pesticide. HUGE difference in energetics.

If it applies to meat it certainly also applies to veggies.

 

My view is, if I cannot kill the animal myself then why should I get someone else to do my dirty work?

Good point.

[Ya Mu]

Nice going Ya Mu you and Sinfest have managed to hijack the subject of the thread.

The original question was along the lines of seeking advice from vegetarians re how to go about it.

It's interesting that every time vegetarianism comes up there are those who become defensive or childish and

have to jump in with their justifications for eating flesh. I for one am not interested in debating the issue.

I suggested to Sinfest he start a meat eating thread - post there and be happy.

WRONG!!!

The OP asked for opinions of experience with vegetarianism and was specifically concerned because he had done research that suggested it didn't work well for everyone (he is correct - it doesn't work well for everyone). Just because my experience with it differs from yours doesn't mean I "hijacked the thread". I gave him valid alternative opinions based on seeing dumbasses (not dumbasses for trying but dumbasses because it wasn't working for them and not doing anything about it) try vegetarian diets, get anemic as hell, then think they can't change because of un-thought through juvenile opinions about saving the animals and or/ spirituality - and I explained why. Why don't you attempt addressing the points I raised instead of spouting nonsense? In fact I have actually seen you answer his question other than give the old "vegge secret handshake".

 

edit: I get that you like being a vegetarian. I am glad it works for you. But the fact is it doesn't work well for everyone.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Ya Mu

[mYTHmAKER]

But the fact is it doesn't work well for everyone.

 

No you are right it does not work for everyone.

However there are many who don't go about it right

You can't keep eating junk food as it catches up with you pretty fast.

In the same way meat eating doesn't work for everyone.

[Ya Mu]

Not sure what that is but I got a chuckle out of that.

It is applied to show others how spiritual one is, looking down on those poor sinful meat eaters who simply don't understand how they are killing all the poor animals and how they are cutting off their spirituality by eating meat. To do it, first one turns their nose up, kinda in the air, making sure to give some type of remark about meat eaters... It can't be done without one showing their ignorance about certain facts and ignoring said facts when those they are pointed out.

I don't see everyone who responded here doing the secret handshake. Only the ones who are "holier than thou". Some responded that they have done well as a vegetarian and explained they liked it. Nothing at all wrong with that. I like eating vegetarian too! The ones who, on the other hand, take serious offense at what I say are the ones doing the secret handshake.

I have tried giving a balanced and realistic view. Some don't like it.

[Ya Mu]

No you are right it does not work for everyone.

However there are many who don't go about it right

You can't keep eating junk food as it catches up with you pretty fast.

In the same way meat eating doesn't work for everyone.

I wholeheartedly agree!

[Aaron]

WRONG!!!

The OP asked for opinions of experience with vegetarianism and was specifically concerned because he had done research that suggested it didn't work well for everyone (he is correct - it doesn't work well for everyone). Just because my experience with it differs from yours doesn't mean I "hijacked the thread". I gave him valid alternative opinions based on seeing dumbasses (not dumbasses for trying but dumbasses because it wasn't working for them and not doing anything about it) try vegetarian diets, get anemic as hell, then think they can't change because of un-thought through juvenile opinions about saving the animals and or/ spirituality - and I explained why. Why don't you attempt addressing the points I raised instead of spouting nonsense? In fact I have actually seen you answer his question other than give the old "vegge secret handshake".

 

edit: I get that you like being a vegetarian. I am glad it works for you. But the fact is it doesn't work well for everyone.

 

Actually I disagree. It doesn't work well for those people who aren't willing to eat the way they're supposed to. Potato Chip vegetarians are going to have a hard time of it, but from everything I've learned, everyone, diabetic, hypoglycemic, you name it, can eat a vegetarian diet and remain healthy.

 

If the OP doesn't feel it's right to eat meat, why do you feel the need to give him an alternative that involves eating meat? He said he had quit for spiritual reasons, most likely his conscience tells him it's wrong. If he feels it's wrong, then he most definitely shouldn't eat meat.

 

I have no issue with eating meat, but I do have issues with people who eat meat, but feel it's wrong. That's bad for their conscience. So if you feel it's wrong, the simplest thing to do is not do it. If you don't, then no problem.

 

As far as vegetarian diets go, it's not that hard to be a vegetarian, in fact it's much harder to do the Atkin's high protein/low carb all meat diet in my opinion. I believe man is meant to eat mostly vegetables and a little meat.

 

Aaron

[Ya Mu]

Actually I disagree. It doesn't work well for those people who aren't willing to eat the way they're supposed to. Potato Chip vegetarians are going to have a hard time of it, but from everything I've learned, everyone, diabetic, hypoglycemic, you name it, can eat a vegetarian diet and remain healthy.

 

If the OP doesn't feel it's right to eat meat, why do you feel the need to give him an alternative that involves eating meat? He said he had quit for spiritual reasons, most likely his conscience tells him it's wrong. If he feels it's wrong, then he most definitely shouldn't eat meat.

 

I have no issue with eating meat, but I do have issues with people who eat meat, but feel it's wrong. That's bad for their conscience. So if you feel it's wrong, the simplest thing to do is not do it. If you don't, then no problem.

 

As far as vegetarian diets go, it's not that hard to be a vegetarian, in fact it's much harder to do the Atkin's high protein/low carb all meat diet in my opinion. I believe man is meant to eat mostly vegetables and a little meat.

 

Aaron

Aaron,

Your point about potato-chip vegetarians is good. The rest? Most probably you simply don't have the experience to know, either personally or clinically. You are wrong - there are quite a large number of people out there who do not do well with a strict vegetarian diet. This is a fact. This fact is not rendered null by yours and others argument that "people aren't doing it right". Yes, some people are not. But still, quite a large amount of the population do not do well with a strict vegetarian diet. No amount of emotional whining from anyone will change this fact. And again, it is outrageously funny that many of these same folks think "spirituality" can't be found if one eats meat. Pure hogwash, bullshit, irresponsible meandering or any other term that means nonsense.

 

It was brought up that some people can't eat meat. The problems I have seen involve, for the largest part, combining protein and carbs. Also I pointed out the problems with eating mainstream meats. Fatty meat is not good for one's health. Again, pasture raised lean meat is much better. But so is vegetables that one grows oneself. And I haven't heard any comments regarding the energetic aspects of both these food types other that bullshit about eating meat makes one less "spiritual".

 

I talked about alternatives because he was concerned about it and he should be. Apparently you didn't bother reading his posts or mine. I also talked about issues surrounding this subject where so many have this attitude about what they call "spirituality" and vegetarianism which has no validity. Try addressing some of the issues I brought up concerning this in the first post I put on this thread. So far, I have heard a lot of criticism headed my way but not a single person has tackled those issues.

 

The issue is not about whether vegetarianism or meat eating is the right way to eat. The issue is about what is right for any particular person to eat, and knowing the real drawbacks of any particular foods, recognizing what works and doesn't and making changes to correct it. Going around anemic and spouting nonsense about meat does not help a person help themselves.

[mYTHmAKER]

A pet peeve of mine

What is it with mock meat.

Many restaurants serve mock chicken - pork - shrimp etc

This is the mentality of the deprived - that vegetarians have to make believe they are eating meat,

poor babies. If I wanted to eat meat i would eat meat. I find the taste of nuts fruits and vegetables delicious

and have absolutely no desire for flesh

 

Poets

are often

eaten alive;

their flesh

can be

quite tender.

 

At one time

I ate dead bodies

with the

best of them,

never fully

understanding

the implications

and

the pain

of how

they arrived

at my table.

 

Then one day

the desire,

to eat

empty houses

of souls who

have left

or been

forced to

evacuate,

was gone.

 

What to do?

 

With no

effort,

not knowing

how or why;

just as

some people

no longer

wish to work,

brush their teeth,

exercise,

or

swim in the sea

in dead of winter,

my desire left me.

 

What to do?

 

I imagine

human beings

as quite tasty

and would

just as soon

eat

a cow,

a cat,

a dog,

a pig,

as a poet.

So why the fuss.

 

Sometimes

I wake up

in a cold sweat

to the sounds

of vegetables

screaming!

 

What to do?

[Aaron]

I'm not sure why it's wrong to enjoy the taste of meat. I didn't eat meat because of personal convictions at the time, but I was willing to accept that I liked the taste of meat. Lets face it there's very few things in the universe that taste as good as chicken. (My diet these days is almost exclusively chicken, with a bit of pork thrown in the mix.)

 

As far as TVP goes, it really depends on who you buy it from. There are companies that sell organic TVP that is every bit as good for you as tofu. If I find people are having problems with following their vegetarian diet, because they miss the taste of meat, or texture, then I will heartily encourage them to eat TVP.

 

Back to the topic of whether or not it's wrong to enjoy the taste of meat, well it's sort of like the religious majority telling you it's wrong to think of sex. In the end it's enforcing moral dogma on a diet.

 

Aaron

[mYTHmAKER]

I'm not sure why it's wrong to enjoy the taste of meat.

Aaron

 

It is not wrong to enjoy the taste of meat.

 

I just happen to not enjoy it ( actually I wouldn't know as I haven't tasted it in over 40 years)

I happen to have absolutely no desire for it and no desire to make believe i am eating it.

[Ya Mu]

It is not wrong to enjoy the taste of meat.

 

I just happen to not enjoy it ( actually I wouldn't know as I haven't tasted it in over 40 years)

I happen to have absolutely no desire for it and no desire to make believe i am eating it.

Personally. I do not like the taste of most meats (nothing to do with my morals). Venison sometimes. Fresh fish, I do, but seldom get the opportunity to have them. So I trudge along eating mostly home-grown vegetables that are not grown with pesticides. Poor me. Just kidding, I LOVE to eat those home grown vegetables. But when I am traveling - it really sucks when I have to eat those things others call vegetables - no life in them, can see and taste the chemicals - yuc.

[mYTHmAKER]

Personally. I do not like the taste of most meats (nothing to do with my morals). Venison sometimes. Fresh fish, I do, but seldom get the opportunity to have them. So I trudge along eating mostly home-grown vegetables that are not grown with pesticides. Poor me. Just kidding, I LOVE to eat those home grown vegetables. But when I am traveling - it really sucks when I have to eat those things others call vegetables - no life in them, can see and taste the chemicals - yuc.

 

Interesting point you inadvertently brought up.

Most meat dishes are all about the sauce and condiments which act to disguise the taste.

When I travel I find restaurants that serve organic food.

[Ya Mu]

Interesting point you inadvertently brought up.

Most meat dishes are all about the sauce and condiments which act to disguise the taste.

When I travel I find restaurants that serve organic food.

If the food is really organic. It was brought up in the "meat" thread, that unfortunately the label doesn't mean as much as it should. Preparation, freshness, etc means a lot as well. Sometimes one can find this when traveling but it is difficult to find food that is really organic, that is prepared by someone who loves what they do, and that wasn't hauled from across the country in a truck that had previously been hauling waste or some other toxic substance.

[baiqi]

Yamu, I was not talking to you in particular. Sorry if you felt offended by my post.

 

I was more thinking of some "spiritual teachers" implying the fact that eating meat could free animals from their inferior condition (yes I have heard that!) , or those who advocate "naturalness" while living in an urban area.

 

Those are, I repeat, bullshit and false excuses.

 

I do understand, however, that some people find hard to become/ remain vegetarian.

You don't easily chage eating habits. You also have social pressure. So, yes, in some cases, people need to eat meat. But this should just be a stage. Just like if you want to climb a mountain, you may need to go down for a while in order to avoid some obstacles. But your goal is the top, not the bottom.