Everything & Nothing - Chapter 1 TTC - Tao

[Everything]

@Everything

Told you to throw it against the wall and start all over.

If there's no mess then it's nothing. Start all over.

Ok, completely forgot the initial post.

 

Here's my new way of putting the experience into words. I think it feels like this:

The more things I want to do, or intent, the more things are left undone. So in order to leave nothing undone, I intent nothing and everything at all times is done at the same time.

 

It seems that if I die in my dreams with something that is left undone, I'm emmediatly reincarnated. Yet, my intention to not get reincarnated reincarnates me to, maybe. Not sure. Its just a dream anyway, but still feels familiar to me.

 

When I have absolutely no intention in waking hours, I seem to still have intention. Infact, I seem to have all intentions all at the same. It doesn't seem dualistic to me. It more like a unified concept where everything and nothing are the same. Then when I return to my dual living, I feel like I need to wake up, but I can't do it anymore. Or can't not do anymore.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Everything

[Everything]

 

Ooops. You mixed your words (IMO). If we are going to equate nothingness with Taoist "Mystery" then, yes, we cannot think or talk about it. But it can be experienced. How can we logically say "I wasn't me."? I am always me.

Lets say that this all is being Observed. You are being Observed. You have your own observation, that observation is also being Observed by this Observer with a capital O. When I observe, I can't seem to realize what is observing, or what is "me". However, when I become connected to the Observer, while still remaining the observer, I seem to realize what I truely am. Everything...

 

The thing is, when I'm the Observer, I Observe what/who is observing, but I can't seem to Observe what/who is Observing. That data is not available to me, just like who/what I am is not available when I'm only the observer.

 

If that actually sounds less logical, let me know.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Everything

[Marblehead]

So what you're saying is that hot and cold is not a dual/opposite, right? They are both abstracted from temperature

 

Exactly. The individual quanties of water have different qualities. They are not really opposites or dualities.

[Marblehead]

Lets say that this all is being Observed. You are being Observed. You have your own observation, that observation is also being Observed by this Observer with a capital O. When I observe, I can't seem to realize what is observing, or what is "me". However, when I become connected to the Observer, while still remaining the observer, I seem to realize what I truely am. Everything...

 

The thing is, when I'm the Observer, I Observe what/who is observing, but I can't seem to Observe what/who is Observing. That data is not available to me, just like who/what I am is not available when I'm only the observer.

 

If that actually sounds less logical, let me know.

 

Hehehe. Well, at least it gave me a chuckle.

 

Yes, I understand what you are saying. You are still working with who (what) "you" are.

 

Don't look for your "you". You won't find it. That is because it is a collection of many things an a finger just cannot be put on the "you" or the "I". But, they still exist in that collective form we call "me".

 

Yes, I know. You are looking for God, for Tao. Stop looking! As soon as you think you have found it you die.

[Everything]

Hehehe. Well, at least it gave me a chuckle.

 

Yes, I understand what you are saying. You are still working with who (what) "you" are.

 

Don't look for your "you". You won't find it. That is because it is a collection of many things an a finger just cannot be put on the "you" or the "I". But, they still exist in that collective form we call "me".

 

Yes, I know. You are looking for God, for Tao. Stop looking! As soon as you think you have found it you die.

And if I die, I have found it?

 

I don't really want to observe Tao or God, I just want to return sovereignty to Tao. To live according to the Way. Not sure if I am already doing that or should still do it, or can't do it.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Everything

[XieJia]

Exactly. The individual quanties of water have different qualities. They are not really opposites or dualities.

 

thus nothing and everything.

 

Going to application of ChuangTzu, what makes thing useful and useless.

The Sage knows what is useful and what is useless.

And what makes things useful and useless.

Edited October 25, 2011 by XieJia

[XieJia]

And if I die, I have found it?

 

I don't really want to observe Tao or God, I just want to return sovereignty to Tao. To live according to the Way. Not sure if I am already doing that or should still do it, or can't do it.

 

Throw that away again and look inside.

What is in control? Are you trying to find some place for the Tao or yourself?

To stand in the eye of the storm?

Find the eye, throw that away and it wont be far.

 

 

Me myself don't know but you will just 'be' despite the storm.

[zanshin]

And if I die, I have found it?

 

I don't really want to observe Tao or God, I just want to return sovereignty to Tao. To live according to the Way. Not sure if I am already doing that or should still do it, or can't do it.

 

As soon as you think you found the truth, you will be wrong. But if you think it all is a lie you will be wrong too. How do you escape dualistic thinking? If you really not sure then you are already doing it.

[Everything]

So you guys are basicly saying that Tao already has sovereignty and I can just have faith in that?

[zanshin]

For heaven's sake don't do that! Unless you want to.

[XieJia]

For you, anything my friend.

 

The Tao

No need for faith.

 

 

The 'I' goes against the flow;

give that up even temporary.

Become whole again,

even just temporary.

 

Too much have been said on my part, I'll stop now.

 

May Everything be Well.

 

[Everything]

For you, anything my friend.

 

The Tao

No need for faith.

 

 

The 'I' goes against the flow;

give that up even temporary.

Become whole again,

even just temporary.

 

Too much have been said on my part, I'll stop now.

 

May Everything be Well.

 

Thanks

[Marblehead]

And if I die, I have found it?

 

I don't really want to observe Tao or God, I just want to return sovereignty to Tao. To live according to the Way. Not sure if I am already doing that or should still do it, or can't do it.

 

Actually, from the little I know of you, you are in pretty good shape. You do ask too many freakin' questions though. Hehehe. Serious though, ask your questions - find your answers because it will be only then that you will have peace with your Self.

 

I don't recommend dying. So basically, with luck it will be many years before you return to Tao for reprocessing.

 

I suppose that one day you will get tired of asking questions and just live. Yeah, that is what life is about - living. The path you follow? That's a personal choice.

[Marblehead]

thus nothing and everything.

 

Okay. But I would prefer no-thing or non-thing. (Differentiating between the Manifest and the non-Manifest (Mystery).

[Marblehead]

For heaven's sake don't do that! Unless you want to.

 

And be careful with that word "faith". It can sometimes bite you on your backside.

[ChiDragon]

In the TTC term, Wu(nothing) means invisible. Actually, nothing is not nothing. "Nothing" is only invisible; but it has a great potential of creative power to engender all things. Actually, Tao has two appearance states. One state is invisible and the other is visible. "Wu" is Tao in the invisible state; and "You" is the visible state.

 

LaoTze: "Nothing came from the Existed" or "The visible came from the invisible."

He was simply saying that the invisible Tao become manifested.

Edited October 25, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Protector]

I dare everyone in this thread to put their hand in boiling water and tell me it's not cold

[Jeff]

Thanks

 

Late to the party, but fun to read. Impressive job staying the course.

 

[ChiDragon]

oops....Attempted to edit above post but clicked "reply" by mistake.

Edited October 25, 2011 by ChiDragon