Dr Yang, Jwing-Ming's Embryonic Breathing

[ChiDragon]

What you two afraid of....???

Some truth out of my questioning...???

[dawei]

What you two afraid of....???

Some truth out of my questioning...???

Just so you know, I have reported you to the mods.

 

Anyone else thinking it is necessary may do so as well.

 

You refuse to listen to what others have advised you concerning how to communicate and share relevant background or practices and topics. Your bent on divisive arguments which derail threads and hijack threads. Please let the topic be discussed.

[ChiDragon]

do not derail my train! ahhaha

[Taomeow]

What you two afraid of....???

Some truth out of my questioning...???

 

---------Moderator's note-----------

 

ChiDragon, you've been quite consistently working on belittling other members, their practices, teachers, knowledge, experience -- pretty much everything anyone has to say, you feel compelled to put down. You intervene in too many meaningful threads with condescending statements that make no sense, e.g. the one above. (No one expressed "fear" and no one saw any meaningful "questioning" from you.) When asked to corroborate your opinions with any sources at all, you refused, again in a condescending manner, asserting that your opinions equal common knowledge on the given subject. They do not, and behaviors that derail meaningful discussions with meaningless accusations of ignorance, fear of truth, and so on, constitute trolling and are not welcome here. Please show respect to other members and refrain from belittling and condescending remarks, and please try to make sure in the future that your contribution to a particular thread is not aimed at derailing it.

 

-------TM for the mod team---------------

[Green Tiger]

I bought this book and sort of skimmed it. It wasn't what I was looking for at the time. I think I was expecting more of a step-by-step instruction and, instead, it is a really deep dive into the qigong theory and mechanics involved in the practice, but I don't recall any sort of how-to, per se.

 

From what I remember of it, it seemed to be just like the microcosmic orbit meditation.

 

I should probably go back and take another look at the book, but I've been on an 'unregulated breathing' kick for a little while and I guess I'd like to see how that plays out. For those of you who do practice it: Is this the sort of practice where you regulate breathing, or is breathing more or less allowed to happen?

[styx_oarsman]

 

I should probably go back and take another look at the book, but I've been on an 'unregulated breathing' kick for a little while and I guess I'd like to see how that plays out. For those of you who do practice it: Is this the sort of practice where you regulate breathing, or is breathing more or less allowed to happen?

 

If I understand it correctly, you're supposed to make your breath slow, deep and smooth and keep practicing until you don't have to think about it and it just happens by itself. Regulating without regulating, so to say. But it probably takes a lot of time. I've been trying for some time, but I'm definitely not quite there yet.

[ChiDragon]

If I understand it correctly, you're supposed to make your breath slow, deep and smooth and keep practicing until you don't have to think about it and it just happens by itself. Regulating without regulating, so to say. But it probably takes a lot of time. I've been trying for some time, but I'm definitely not quite there yet.

 

That was what I have been trying to say all along in most of my posts, but I had been ignored and I was treated like some kind of idiot.

Edited September 21, 2011 by ChiDragon

[lifeforce]

I honestly don't know how you could start to discuss this book.

The amount of detail is absolutely staggering.

I have a few of YJM's books but this one is the most detailed that I own.

To discuss, disect and categorize this book would do it a great dis-service. It needs to be read, re-read, studied and absorbed.

There are several lifetimes worth of practices contained in it.

I don't see it as an explicit set of instructions which need to be followed to the letter, even though plenty of examples are given.

It is very flexible in this respect.

Anyone who has any experience of meditation and/or qigong can tailor their own practice(s) to suit.

Mind-boggling.

[Bubbles]

That was what I have been trying to say all along in most of my posts, but I had been ignored and I was treated like some kind of idiot.

 

Hey ChiDragon,

 

Does it means that you praise yourself for being able to read classical chinese and translate TTC but can't align the simple words styx_oarsman has written, and instead of writing them you wrote random words that were misinterpreted unfairly as trolling?

 

This is disgrace and I am sorry for you.

 

To protect yourself from such injustice I really and friendly think it is time for you to:

- take all the time necessary to spell out in the most clear way you can your thoughts (as if you were speaking to a child in great need of understanding what you are talking about)

- give your sources/background when you know you are displaying ideas that are not common to all the bums (asses) here who wander from too-well-known-teachers-to-be-legit to masters-who-misguide-the-blind-followers-we-are-but-you.

Edited September 21, 2011 by bubbles

[Bubbles]

To discuss, disect and categorize this book would do it a great dis-service. It needs to be read, re-read, studied and absorbed.

There are several lifetimes worth of practices contained in it.

 

Yes, you are right!

But the beginning of the thread was more was about people's experiences with it, not really dissecting it. Anyway, it won't happen, the book is too rich and our experiences certainly too poor.

[ChiDragon]

FYI...

My link: Embryonic Breathing(Tai Hsi, 胎息)

 

The lady in the blue shirt is doing Yoga to the ultimate extreme.

http://www.yyttx.com/

 

The Chinese characters, in the middle top row, is the Embryonic Breathing procedure(click on it to see the complete procedure).

Edited September 21, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

FYI...

My link: Embryonic Breathing(Tai Hsi, 胎息)

 

The lady in the blue shirt is doing Yoga to the ultimate extreme.

http://www.yyttx.com/

 

The Chinese characters, in the middle top row, is the Embryonic Breathing procedure(click on it to see the complete procedure).

You should really try to find the book. Then you will know that what you link to is not YJM's EB. His technique is based on his 30 years of practicing it, and based on the various ancient texts which he offers many translations of.

 

Those demonstrations you show are the very opposite of what YJM talks about in his book. Although he mentions the 'belt vessel' it is not like the 'turtle breathing' demonstrations in the videos.

 

And EB is not about just laying down and just doing breathing. YJM has a full recommended path to follow which includes various 'fundamentals' before EB is attempted; including the understanding of Jing-Qi-Shen regulation and how they relate to Wuji and Dao... then practice the MCO with NAB, then with RAB (which is emphasized more), then grand circulations, then muscle-tendon and brain-marrow practices and others to open the third-eye, then lowering the Shen to the lower dan tian.

 

YJM also talks about how the DDJ holds a key to understanding and talks about chapters 16, 6, 10, 25. He quotes many, many texts like the Baopuzi and those which talk about the breathing methods. They seem to all have a common theme as explained by the Ling Jian Zi's Dao Yin Zi-Wu Recording: "... breaths deeply but not from the nose."

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

hm... What time other than bed-time would i have to even concieve of practicing this... What would you suggest for one whose time belongs to others more often than not?

 

Typically, the most "free time" i have is thursdays while i am out looking for work... Every week i get dropped off in town for 12+ hours, perhaps i should be more focused on practice...?

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[konchog uma]

I honestly don't know how you could start to discuss this book.

The amount of detail is absolutely staggering.

I have a few of YJM's books but this one is the most detailed that I own.

To discuss, disect and categorize this book would do it a great dis-service. It needs to be read, re-read, studied and absorbed.

There are several lifetimes worth of practices contained in it.

I don't see it as an explicit set of instructions which need to be followed to the letter, even though plenty of examples are given.

It is very flexible in this respect.

Anyone who has any experience of meditation and/or qigong can tailor their own practice(s) to suit.

Mind-boggling.

 

oh boy!

 

well i look forward to giving it the time it needs to be absorbed. thanks lifeforce, and all you bums, for your input. i am doubly excited about learning this technique. for $30 i can have a private session with my teacher.. so there can be a transmission from person to person too. but first i want to finish the video and read the book so i'm sure it will a little while before i have anything substantial to report.

 

again, thanks everyone, your posts were helpful and make me really happy to study this

[dawei]

hm... What time other than bed-time would i have to even concieve of practicing this... What would you suggest for one whose time belongs to others more often than not?

 

Typically, the most "free time" i have is thursdays while i am out looking for work... Every week i get dropped off in town for 12+ hours, perhaps i should be more focused on practice...?

In the EB book, I see he mentions midnight and noon.

 

In his early book, Chi Kung, Health and Martial Arts he mentions three times:

1. 15 minutes before sunrise

2. 1 to 2 hours after lunch

3. half hour before going to sleep

 

He says if only once or twice can be done to drop the afternoon.

 

You might see many recommend 3-5am since that is the Lung 'hour' in TCM. I have an agreement with myself that if I wake up at this time, I'll do some meditation. You will be amazed at how your body will suddenly take you up on that dare

[steve]

You might see many recommend 3-5am since that is the Lung 'hour' in TCM. I have an agreement with myself that if I wake up at this time, I'll do some meditation. You will be amazed at how your body will suddenly take you up on that dare

For me, there is no time like 5:00 - 5:30 am for meditation.

[ChiDragon]

Hey ChiDragon,

 

Does it means that you praise yourself for being able to read classical chinese and translate TTC but can't align the simple words styx_oarsman has written, and instead of writing them you wrote random words that were misinterpreted unfairly as trolling?

 

This is disgrace and I am sorry for you.

 

To protect yourself from such injustice I really and friendly think it is time for you to:

- take all the time necessary to spell out in the most clear way you can your thoughts (as if you were speaking to a child in great need of understanding what you are talking about)

- give your sources/background when you know you are displaying ideas that are not common to all the bums (asses) here who wander from too-well-known-teachers-to-be-legit to masters-who-misguide-the-blind-followers-we-are-but-you.

 

I don't know is this an insult for me or not; but please let the record shown this has being taking place, here, quite often by this individual. However, no name has been mentioned here to protect his innocence.

[realfastcat]

No taiji. Just stillness-movement, as taught by Michael Lomax.

 

On day 23 of my first 100 day stillness-movement gong, my body transitioned effortlessly into an embryonic breathing state in the middle of the night. On day 35, I was still in an EB state. On day 36, I experienced my first "non-breathing" state.

 

I can't say I am in an EB state every moment of the day, but pretty much. No longer a trippy experience. It just IS.

 

We may be talking about different things. Your experience sounds very interesting.

[dawei]

We may be talking about different things. Your experience sounds very interesting.

I tend to agree with both points; it is probably different and probably much more interesting

 

IMO, what YJM means by EB is not just a practice or a technique; it is a state of the body's creating (or re-creating) a Spiritual Embryo. This is one of many components used to get to a final goal goal of spiritual enlightenment and being completely one with Dao. At this point, one is said to have united "Kan and Li" (heaven and earth, or Shen with Qi in the lower dan tian). Which means the Shen has been brought down to the LDT.

 

In order to get there, you need to master:

1. Small circulation - MCO (with NAB and RAB); other breathing (Wuji and girdle, etc)

2. Grand circulations (including gates like palms, crown, root, souls of feet, etc).

3. Iron shirt / muscle tendon / bone marrow practices

4. EB

 

The combination of all of these produce the final results which include:

1. The four refinements (Jing to Qi; Qi to Shen; Shen to Wu; Wu to Dao)

2. The five regulations (Body, Breath, Mind, Qi, Spirit)

3. Opening of the Spiritual Third-Eye

4. Return to Dao

5. Final Spiritual enlightenment

 

This is my brief outline of the book's content as a practice and path to spiritual enlightenment. One can practice ANY of the above 9 items independently but that does not mean they have mastered what YJM means in this book as EB. One may achieve the EB breathing aspect but not have achieved many of the other items or the overall practice he is trying to layout.

 

That all being said, what R_V relates is much more interesting to me since it seems to show how one can independently get the EB breathing state. If you read the YJM's book, you'll get this feeling that you need all sorts of prerequisites, but that is because he has a final goal, not just a breathing technique to layout.

 

It seems to me what R_V describes is much more accessible and feasible. I personally find this is what we would benefit from understanding more instead of incredibly detailed paths laid out by books like this one and those that Mantak Chia puts out. These books are very detailed and can border on dangerous to try without proper guidance. I see no danger in what R_V relates. But if what one wants is a complete spiritual path then I suspect one needs more than just EB breathing alone. JMO.

[Bubbles]

I don't know is this an insult for me or not

 

No insult, just a sincere amazement in the first part of the message dipped in some irony sauce.I am ironic about the contrast between your language skills (classical chinese) and your posting ways on TTB. I understand that you can't stand it.You are free to take it as an insult and complain about it. It remains to be seen upon which conditions irony become insult. Very good topic, indeed.

 

I am simply astonished to see that the same situation has repeated itself again and again although a number of people including myself had clearly asked you to explain and explicit the foundations of your views which you did hardly ever and in cryptic or elliptic ways.

 

 

but please let the record shown this has being taking place, here, quite often by this individual.However, no name has been mentioned here to protect his innocence.

 

This individual is bubbles, I have like you a screen name.More than being an individual I am like you a human. Thank you for being concerned by my innocence, but this is mainly my business.

 

You can record my message, this is a public forum, it was a public message. Don't forget to especially record the second part of it where I give again the same advice some people gave you already as far as your communicating ways in TTB are concerned (clarity of the content, explicit mention of your sources) so that the flow of posts will be constructive. We can disagree upon something (what zhan zhuang is for example ) no problem, as long as everyone states clearly one's experiences and sources and are willing to contribute to a better understanding of the subject.

 

End of the story.

Regards

Edited September 22, 2011 by bubbles

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[ChiDragon]

You can record my message, this is a public forum, it was a public message. Don't forget to especially record the second part of it where I give again the same advice some people gave you already as far as your communicating ways in TTB are concerned (clarity of the content, explicit mention of your sources) so that the flow of posts will be constructive. We can disagree upon something (what zhan zhuang is for example ) no problem, as long as everyone states clearly one's experiences and sources and are willing to contribute to a better understanding of the subject.

 

End of the story.

Regards

 

FYI...

My sources are in my head. I knew the stuff or one might say I was brain washed since I was a kid.

I knew zhan zhuang was troublesome for me too since I had mentioned last. FYI This was, only, the way used to be but not anymore. Before, the students were hand picked by their sifu to learn Kung Fu. Please remember, it was for free at the time; but the lives of the students were almost owned by the sifu, so to speak. Therefore, the first thing the sifu have the student to do was zhan zhuang. The sifu will come over to give the student a push daily. However, if the student was moved an inch by not locking his feet to the ground, then he was not qualify for the next lesson as part of the encouragement and punishment.

 

Now-a-days, since the students are paying for their lessons, you think your teacher will let you just stand there for few months and collect a fee from you. Then you'll think that you have been cheated for your money, wouldn't you...???

Edited September 22, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Bubbles]

Your post should be in the rooting thread, not the EB one

I will respond to it there.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend