Living Life is a totally misconstrued taoist concept

[tulku]

A person who releases their attachments and aversions is free to enjoy life.

 

Only at the beginner's level of understanding does it seem like we need to isolate ourselves from the pollution of society, and not have any enjoyment. At an actual higher level, we bring the Tao into the world fearlessly (without aversion to anything)...and actually let go of all of the disciplined letting go...so then life is lived naturally. As if we aren't even Taoists.

 

At least that's my view.

 

Even Max's masters live in the mountains.

 

Are you calling Max's masters, Mantak Chia, Nan Chin Hai, The Wudang and Emei mountain taoist masters beginners?

 

Because they believe that it is only possible to be enlightened by isolating themselves from the pollution of society?

 

So you think you are higher than those masters now?

 

You should show a lot more respect to people who have attained a higher level than you have.

[tulku]

Yes they are, wise enough to know that city life is not a natural way of living. There are only few natural way of living, one of them is the way according to Tao te Ching.

 

Equally do alot of religions seek to reveal our inner nature, that which we all inhereted. The fact that we want to impregnate women is false. We have a desire for sex, not babies. The babies is the result that places us in a position of awe for nature. It is the ultimate gift to a human life. Sex-drive is somethin that is of our nature, and living in an unnatural world would simply take advantage of that nature against us. Thus, some people choose to walk the hard road of living with difficulties in very small groups and in nature. Some people choose to seek their nature in religion and others choose to meet their two milion year old self in their own dreams. No way that can be spoken of is the ultimate way. We can not tell exactly what we need in life to fully acces all our inhereted archetypes and live to the full potential of our beings. But we should certainly not give up trying. Suicide is simply a shrewd or naive thing to do, not wise.

 

You say that livig life is wrong. Then it sound that we should kill our selves and that sounds reasonable. But do not misinterpret the wisdom that can be found beyond your given words. Death is temporary, facing it will be hard and cannot be done by holding fast to life. Thus, the hero boys were killed symbolically in ancient times, only to be rebornd as warriors who were no longer immortal. Mortality comes after immortality. So that we may be vulnerable once again, love and be loved. A hero cannot love, for he cannot relate to women, he is in sollitude, with a mask, ready for death to be reborn again.

 

Every piece of knowledge is relative to something. You cannot take one text and say that that is the way of living for eternity. No, it is a temporary place from which higher potentials of life can be reached.

 

Eventually, you will learn that you chose to live. But your will be clueless to that knowing untill you will have faced death. Your will to live is your deepest nature, even deeper then sex, freedom, succes, or happiness.

 

Where did I say that one must commit suicide? Since when is living away from the masses a form of "suicide"?

 

My will to be one with the void is my deepest nature, not my will to live.

 

Read my last few posts again to glean the true essence of my words.

[Lotus7]

Absolutely not!!! The initial post suggested that Taoism is all fucked up and we all need to convert to Buddhism. What a bunch of bull shit!!!

 

Haha.... +1 Marble. No offense to Tulku, but this is how I saw it when I first read it.

[tulku]

Tulku, your view of a Daoist living a secluded life up a Chinese mountain, eating nothing but berries and having nothing to do with society, is an over-romanticized western way of looking at it. An escape from life and not an embracing of it.

The Dao is everywhere, as are it's cultivators. It could be the checkout girl, a random guy you bump into at McDonalds, the guy sitting on his own on the bus, just as much as it is the Chinese Taiji instructor or the acupuncturist.

People of the Dao also lead normal lives. It is over-indulgence which ruins everything.

I had never even heard of the Dao when I got married and later had children.

I like a beer now and again, a ride on a rollercoaster and an occasional burger.

Does that make me less of a Dao cultivator ? Does it hell.

 

I never said that one must live up in the mountains. You can live in a secluded beach, a small town, a tiny village, a deep forest..

 

basically anywhere where you can prevent indulgence of your senses..

Those taoist masters and buddhist monks ain't escaping life. No, by living in seclusion and doing self-cultivation every single second, these taoist and buddhist monks are living life to the fullest! Because the true purpose of life is to be one with the void, and not to waste your life away fornicating, breeding and having fun!

 

Give me a break. You ain't a daoist.

 

You think that reading a few daoist books and doing a few qigong makes you a daoist?

 

Don't make me laugh.

[tulku]

Tulku next time you try to talk about Taoism at least get your sources right. What you did right there is the equivalent of quoting the book of Matthew and starting preaching about Judaism. I can't even be bothered to explain how non-sequitur that kind of logic is.

 

I know you like to be the fundamentalist know-it-all source of everything, declaring everything is THIS and definitely is NOT THAT, but you don't even have a clue about what you are talking about most of the time. all you do is make brash sweeping general statements about everything which reference your belief that you think everything has to be hard core, one thing to the exclusion to all other things, and that to be something you must always be living out in the mountains in a cave, eating berries and stuff like that. or other crack statements like that the Chinese are all losers in chi, and only people in Indonesia have true mastery of chi, or that the Chinese don't know shit while everything up in the Himalayas is all perfect and the only true masters ONLY live there. How arrogant can you be? You're the only one who can't see the way you choose to think is flawed, which is why you generally meet with large amounts of opposition on a lot of the threads that you make. It's like you're some bible belt redneck talking about Jesus with the dogmatic statements you make sometimes - you tend to stereotype everything, while lacking the subtlety and wisdom to actually see the holes in the way you think, and neither do you seem to have the ability to have the humility to second guess yourself and admit that maybe you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

For example, have you ever bothered to even examine Taoist culture? What do you know about the stories of the Eight Immortals? Probably little to nothing, even though they permeate Taoist culture thoroughly. They are at best an oddball bunch of people who one way or another, through sheer foolishness and coincidence stumble one way or another into a way of becoming an immortal. They are generally portrayed as a nonchalant bunch who are fond of food and drink, and represent spontaneity just as much, if not even more than austerity. You will find these things if you dig up the stories. The Eight Immortals transcend sterotypes, being that they all are from different walks of life, and represent pretty much any kind of average person - not even half of them had to go into the mountains, give up food or regular life or any of that stuff that you're preaching about. But then again you probably would not know of these things, being that you had to quote something Buddhist just to talk about Taoism. Buddhism can approximate, but it can never represent the true essence of Taoism. Buddhism does not equal Taoism and I would not be as arrogant as to the conclusion that I know everything about Taoism just because I read a scripture from Buddhism.

 

You want to be an authority, tulku? Go and achieve something with all that knowledge you believe you have. Go away to those mountains that you so desperately believe hold the truth to everything you think is there. And get away from us mundane regular chi folk posting here on taobums. Go and live in that cave, and dont eat food and use the internet like all us regular folk. Do you practice what you preach? This is the question. You like to lecture us all and teach us about these things which you think you know so much about. So I'm guessing as you are such a master you should go and set up your own school. Go around and try to teach people your own system of chi. let see how well you hold up to the likes of Ya Mu, Li Ping, the people from KAP or fivelementtao or hundun. Let's see how well you do then.

 

Do you really think that the eight immortals achieve immortality by food, drink and fun alone? My gosh, your ignorance is astounding.

 

I am just a student learning the teachings of great masters, Taoist, Buddhist or otherwise. Whatever I write here in this forum, they are from the words of masters who have achieved more than me. These are not my own words.

 

I am now eating a raw food diet. With no sex or even any opportunities of sex. I don't look at women or even think about women. I live in a extremely small town near the beach away from the city.

 

Do I practice what I preach? Definitely.

[Marblehead]

I have already presented everyone with the highest Taoist teachings and have proved that they are no different from the highest Buddhist teachings.

 

No. What you presented is what you believe to be true. Just by accident I don't believe it to be trye.

 

If anyone refuse to see the truth of my words, and wanna walk a mediocre path, hey it is your choice, not mine.

 

You can bet you ass that it is my choice to walk whatever path I wish to walk. And BTW, my path is the highest path and your is much below mine. You are simply a confused beginner. (You gotta watch what you say when you speak about others' path.)

 

There is no way you can live as a married person indulging in your senses by partaking in the luxuries of the city and still expect to attain Enlightenment.

 

Who the fuck made you God???

 

As previous taoist and buddhist masters have shown, one can only attain Enlightenment by cutting off your senses and living in seclusion away from the masses.

 

You might be able to attain enlightenment by cutting off your dick too but I wouldn't recommend do it.

 

What about the Masters who didn't run away and hid in a cave or the forest? Are they just lost souls?

 

Me, I am walking the highest path and no one is gonna stop me.

 

I have no intention or desire to stop you from doing anything as long as it doesn't negatively effect others. You have negatively effected others by some of the things you have said here. I have responded to those events.

[Aetherous]

Okay, Tulku...

 

Even Max's masters live in the mountains.

 

Are you calling Max's masters, Mantak Chia, Nan Chin Hai, The Wudang and Emei mountain taoist masters beginners?

 

First of all, why are you bringing up Max?

 

Secondly, those aren't Max's teachers. Many of Max's teachers don't live in the mountains.

 

Thirdly, living in the mountains is not seclusion or abandoning enjoyment. It seems like an awesome and serene way of living.

 

There are different types of Taoists...I'm the type that goes into the world. I consider this type to be more advanced than the ones who rely on the mountain life in order to make progress.

 

Because they believe that it is only possible to be enlightened by isolating themselves from the pollution of society?

 

That belief is just a belief of beginners...it's not a reality of achievers. I am enlightened while living in the pollution of society...no big deal.

 

So you think you are higher than those masters now?

 

First of all, you don't know if they are actually masters. Second, I don't know any of them, masters or not, personally, so who can say? Thirdly, I will just say "yes". What can you do about it? Whine?

 

You should show a lot more respect to people who have attained a higher level than you have.

 

Yes, you should. I am way past your level, and you disrespect me with a reply like this? When I was just attempting to help bring clarity to your understanding?

 

That's the last time I share anything with you, Tulku.

[Marblehead]

My will to be one with the void is my deepest nature, not my will to live.

 

I actually question the purpose of you being here. Shouldn't you be in a cave somewhere practicing what you are preaching?

[Stigweard]

Absolutely not!!! The initial post suggested that Taoism is all fucked up and we all need to convert to Buddhism. What a bunch of bull shit!!!

Bahahahah!!!

 

I love seeing you get riled up We all have our areas of passion hey?

 

[Marblehead]

 

basically anywhere where you can prevent indulgence of your senses..

Those taoist masters and buddhist monks ain't escaping life. No, by living in seclusion and doing self-cultivation every single second, these taoist and buddhist monks are living life to the fullest! Because the true purpose of life is to be one with the void, and not to waste your life away fornicating, breeding and having fun!

 

 

And that, my fellow TaoBum member, is pure bullshit.

[tulku]

I actually question the purpose of you being here. Shouldn't you be in a cave somewhere practicing what you are preaching?

 

The cave is my room and I just came out of a 90-min vissapana meditation. Thank you very much.

 

That was how I got the inspiration to start such insightful threads.

[fiveelementtao]

Even Max's masters live in the mountains.

Not accurate. I don't know about all of Max's teachers but I am familiar with two of them. They do not live in mountains. In fact, the one that he claims taught him his highest techniques was born, raised and has lived in a large city in the USA his entire life. Is married and has children.

Because they (Max's Teachers) believe that it is only possible to be enlightened by isolating themselves from the pollution of society?

They don't believe that. In fact, I know that they believe and teach the exact opposite. They teach that in order to achieve the Tao, one should enjoy life, be a functioning, participating part of society and practice your Tao in moderation.

 

You should show a lot more respect to people who have attained a higher level than you have.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Very profound.

 

Me, I am walking the highest path and no one is gonna stop me.

I don't see anyone trying to stop you from doing anything. I myself would love to hear about any experiences you might have if you chose to live in the mountains with some masters. If you ever do a dark retreat, I would love to hear about it. I encourage you to do these things and come back and share them with us...

I am reminded of the definition of Critical Thinking I reposted from wikipedia which says,

 

(Critical thinking) is a way of deciding whether a claim is true, false, or sometimes true and sometimes false, or partly true and partly false.

 

If I apply critical thinking to your statements here Tulku, I find them lacking. There is truth to your statements. What I find characteristically un-Taoist and un-Buddhists about your thought process and communication is that it lacks an understanding that things can be both true and untrue or true in certain circumstances.

[Marblehead]

Do you really think that the eight immortals achieve immortality by food, drink and fun alone? My gosh, your ignorance is astounding.

 

I am just a student learning the teachings of great masters, Taoist, Buddhist or otherwise. Whatever I write here in this forum, they are from the words of masters who have achieved more than me. These are not my own words.

 

I am now eating a raw food diet. With no sex or even any opportunities of sex. I don't look at women or even think about women. I live in a extremely small town near the beach away from the city.

 

Do I practice what I preach? Definitely.

 

Oh!, you poor little deprived Taoist/Buddhist/whateverish.

 

Don't even look at women. WoW!

 

I think you might reconsider that statement about practicing what you preach.

[tulku]

Okay, Tulku...

 

 

 

First of all, why are you bringing up Max?

 

Secondly, those aren't Max's teachers. Many of Max's teachers don't live in the mountains.

 

Thirdly, living in the mountains is not seclusion or abandoning enjoyment. It seems like an awesome and serene way of living.

 

There are different types of Taoists...I'm the type that goes into the world. I consider this type to be more advanced than the ones who rely on the mountain life in order to make progress.

 

 

 

That belief is just a belief of beginners...it's not a reality of achievers. I am enlightened while living in the pollution of society...no big deal.

 

 

 

First of all, you don't know if they are actually masters. Second, I don't know any of them, masters or not, personally, so who can say? Thirdly, I will just say "yes". What can you do about it? Whine?

 

 

 

Yes, you should. I am way past your level, and you disrespect me with a reply like this? When I was just attempting to help bring clarity to your understanding?

 

That's the last time I share anything with you, Tulku.

 

Max learnt his stuff from some masters in the mountains. Pardon me if I am wrong.

 

Nevertheless, there are plenty of other high-level taoist masters living in the chinese mountains.

 

If you think that you are higher than those taoist masters, by all means, go ahead. Who am I to stop you?

[Aetherous]

by living in seclusion and doing self-cultivation every single second

 

Well, "tulku", get to it! That includes not posting here. Goodbye and good riddance!

[Marblehead]

Bahahahah!!!

 

I love seeing you get riled up We all have our areas of passion hey?

 

 

Well, come on, jump in, the waters are a little rough but their temperature is nice and warm.

 

Yes Stig, I love my passions and my emotions too. I also love my Self. Hehehe.

[tulku]

No. What you presented is what you believe to be true. Just by accident I don't believe it to be trye.

 

 

 

You can bet you ass that it is my choice to walk whatever path I wish to walk. And BTW, my path is the highest path and your is much below mine. You are simply a confused beginner. (You gotta watch what you say when you speak about others' path.)

 

 

 

Who the fuck made you God???

 

 

 

You might be able to attain enlightenment by cutting off your dick too but I wouldn't recommend do it.

 

What about the Masters who didn't run away and hid in a cave or the forest? Are they just lost souls?

 

 

 

I have no intention or desire to stop you from doing anything as long as it doesn't negatively effect others. You have negatively effected others by some of the things you have said here. I have responded to those events.

 

I might be a beginner, but the teachings which I have are from many masters. They are no mere beginners.

 

I have never met one Master in my life who didn't spend a significant portion of his life being secluded away from people.

 

Nobody made me god. I have only merely made my observations based on the teachings of taoist and buddhist masters and I have offered these observations to this forum.

 

Feel free to degrade the teachings of those taoist or buddhist masters if you want. It is your bad karma, not mine.

[Marblehead]

The cave is my room and I just came out of a 90-min vissapana meditation. Thank you very much.

 

That was how I got the inspiration to start such insightful threads.

 

Well, this thread started with a bunch of your bull shit so perhaps you need to do a better job at meditating.

[tulku]

Bahahahah!!!

 

I love seeing you get riled up We all have our areas of passion hey?

 

 

I love how the fragile human egos are being riled up by true teachings of masters.

[Aetherous]

I love how the fragile human egos are being riled up by true teachings of masters.

 

This is not something a true cultivator cares about whatsoever.

[Marblehead]

Well, "tulku", get to it! That includes not posting here. Goodbye and good riddance!

 

Hehehe. He ain't goona' leave that easily. But your thoughts were nice.

 

Tulku has something he has to prove to himself so he will continue until he sees his illusions and delusions.

[Aetherous]

Marble,

 

Hehehe. He ain't goona' leave that easily. But your thoughts were nice.

 

If he was honest with himself, and actually passionate about the subject, he would leave immediately. Staying and continuing in the discussion is purely hypocritical.

 

Tulku has something he has to prove to himself so he will continue until he sees his illusions and delusions.

 

True. I don't really care either way, and am not holding a grudge against him or anything. I don't even care if he posts a bunch of false theories. I wish him luck, in whatever.

[Marblehead]

I might be a beginner, but the teachings which I have are from many masters. They are no mere beginners.

 

I am not trying to cut you down Tulku. All I am suggesting is that what you have learned is very selective and you have eliminated everything that does not comply with your vision of what it is all about.

 

I have never met one Master in my life who didn't spend a significant portion of his life being secluded away from people.

 

Good for you.

 

Nobody made me god. I have only merely made my observations based on the teachings of taoist and buddhist masters and I have offered these observations to this forum.

 

And these observations are based on your perspective when you were exposed to the knowledge. And your observations are nothing more than your opinion of how reality appears to be. Perhaps others cannot see through your eyes.

 

Feel free to degrade the teachings of those taoist or buddhist masters if you want. It is your bad karma, not mine.

 

Did I degrade their teachings? Yeah, I said I don't agree with the BS you presented. If the originator had presented them directly on the board I still would have desagreed.

 

I don't believe in karma so that statement does not apply.

[Marblehead]

I love how the fragile human egos are being riled up by true teachings of masters.

 

But you are presenting bull shit and that is what has gotten us poor mortals riled up. Yeah, I know, you think that you are well on your way to becoming an immortal. Best Wishes.

[Marblehead]

If he was honest with himself, and actually passionate about the subject, he would leave immediately. Staying and continuing in the discussion is purely hypocritical.

 

Yeah, it is bad for his practice too, having all this interaction with so many people who are lost and unable to see the ultimate truth in what he is saying. Yes, there has been a little hypocracy in his posts but I overlooked that.

 

True. I don't really care either way, and am not holding a grudge against him or anything. I don't even care if he posts a bunch of false theories. I wish him luck, in whatever.

 

Yeah, your sentence I bolded is something I care about and will speak to. I'm surprised that there haven't been any Buddhists getting on his case.