What is not Tao?

[stan herman]

LOL but simultaneously they are not not the tao.

 

Hehehehe

 

Right, one might say the tao is not anything, and everything is the tao. . . if one wanted to, that is...

[Non]

What is "not-Tao"?

[Marblehead]

I got tongue twisted just reading those last few posts.

 

All things and all non-things are Tao but Tao is not a thing.

[Vmarco]

What is not Tao?

 

What is not Light?

 

V

[dawei]

What is not Light?

 

V

I wonder to what degree we base all our thoughts and comments on the "now"; what we perceive, which may include Dao or Light... when do we get beyond this physical experience.

 

So what is not Tao or not Light? I think it is the beyond Tao and light; beyond now.

[Vmarco]

I wonder to what degree we base all our thoughts and comments on the "now"; what we perceive, which may include Dao or Light... when do we get beyond this physical experience.

 

So what is not Tao or not Light? I think it is the beyond Tao and light; beyond now.

 

 

I haven't observed anything beyond WuJi (Undivided Light) or TaiJi (Divided Light). Everything, and every non-thing is Tao and Light. The question is, does focus on one, without the other, increase or decrease one's capability to understand both,...which are, if I can be so bold, the Same.

 

V

[dawei]

I haven't observed anything beyond WuJi (Undivided Light) or TaiJi (Divided Light). Everything, and every non-thing is Tao and Light. The question is, does focus on one, without the other, increase or decrease one's capability to understand both,...which are, if I can be so bold, the Same.

In my thought... Dao and Light simply point to something higher. There is a dissolution of all things or concepts (colors too). Dao is definitely not the highest thing; if we thought it then it is not the highest... JMO.

[Informer]

What is not Light?

 

V

 

The void.

[starhawk]

I think different taoists will respond differently.

 

One very taoist taoist asked me this question and led me toward thinking what he thinks -- to wit, that things "unnatural" are part of things "natural" just like "yin" is always part of "yang" and vice versa. I am still processing this idea. Here's some thoughts it has generated (work in progress, none carved in stone):

 

I guess it's a matter of proportions. If you have "yang within yin" it's still yin, having some yang within is its inherent attribute, in fact part of its yin-ness. ("Pure yang" ideas later in taoism are borrowings from Indo-European modalities. These are un-taoist ideas within taoism, similar to seeds of yang within yin, which follows the original premise of taoism and does not render it un-taoist.) If you have increased the proportion of yang within yin to half and half, you have "balance" -- and within "balance" things don't stay put, not even for a second, given the perpetual motion of the manifest world and the manifest-unmanifest interplay. One of them flips the balance to its side. Thus, yang within yin, should it overgrow yin, will flip it into yang, with seeds of yin within. Similarly, unnatural things within naturalness, if they grow to balance, will not stay put -- they will flip. Should they flip toward more unnatural than natural, we'll have an unnatural world, with seeds of naturalness within. When it reaches its peak unnaturalness it won't be able to grow any more unnatural because "pure unnaturalness" is as impossible as "pure yang," and so it will start moving in the opposite direction -- the seeds of naturalness within an unnatural world will grow.

 

 

 

Thanks TaoMeow! Good insight. Can you explain possibly The matter of proportions using a system, either ancient or modern? I know of such a system called the book of changes, but I do not know how to use it. Hexagrams can explain yin and yang, which if you take TaoMeow's suggestion that natural and unnatural correspond to yin and yang, would help. Hexagrams could then determine if something is natural or unnatural to degrees and shades. However, one more factor we would need to take into effect the three influences, i.e. our human nature makes us favor yang, like love versus hatred or ignorance.

 

Do I need to find a feng shui master? I'm not sure what I'm asking, but just working out ideas.

Any bums here that might want to try to explain my riddle to me to index what what is natural, unnatural, with dexterity?

Edited August 30, 2011 by starhawk

[Marblehead]

Everything, and every non-thing is Tao and Light. The question is, does focus on one, without the other, increase or decrease one's capability to understand both,...which are, if I can be so bold, the Same.

 

V

 

I have already converted your word "Light" to the word "Tao" in order to remain conscious of what you are talking about.

[Marblehead]

Any bums here that might want to try to explain my riddle to me to index what what is natural, unnatural, with dexterity?

 

That is a tough one. I have not yet seen a good answer if we look at the question subjectively.

 

Even what Hitler did was natural because of 'cause and effect' if viewed objectively. But I am sure all of us agree that what he did was unnatural when we look at it subjectively (the way of man).

[Z3N]

Hahaha the way is Tao! So this is taoist. Anything outside of this is not Tao. Simple. So what is not Taoist is in fact being a narrow minded human component focused on a grain of sand instead of the whole beach in all it's gory. If you catch my drift! Hahahahaha! The way is so clear no need to be, just look into the looking glass and things will appear without the use of thought. Hahaha! be happy all!

[thelerner]

Let me be a sour puss, here is where philosophy does us wrong. It devolves into how many angels on a pin; then into semantics.

 

By making the Tao everything, everywhere, even in the hamburger, we make it nothing. Tao is trivia. An intellectual play thing.

 

Even as low level philosophical taoists I think we need to focus on Tao as Path; a way of being that is in accordance with nature. We know we're getting close when there is less friction in our lives and minds.

 

 

my 2 bits.

[Marblehead]

So what is not Taoist is in fact being a narrow minded human component focused on a grain of sand instead of the whole beach in all it's gory.

 

I like that!

[Marblehead]

Let me be a sour puss, here is where philosophy does us wrong. It devolves into how many angels on a pin; then into semantics.

 

By making the Tao everything, everywhere, even in the hamburger, we make it nothing. Tao is trivia. An intellectual play thing.

 

Even as low level philosophical taoists I think we need to focus on Tao as Path; a way of being that is in accordance with nature. We know we're getting close when there is less friction in our lives and minds.

 

my 2 bits.

 

But Thelerner,

 

This entire discussion points to the fact that Tao cannot be described or defined. It just is.

 

What you are talking about is Te, the Way of Tao. Yes, the Way of nature. The natural processes.

 

The ways of man are many. Some are pretty close to the Way of Tao; others are very far removed.

[thelerner]

But Thelerner,

 

This entire discussion points to the fact that Tao cannot be described or defined. It just is.

 

What you are talking about is Te, the Way of Tao. Yes, the Way of nature. The natural processes.

 

The ways of man are many. Some are pretty close to the Way of Tao; others are very far removed.

D'Oh

[Marblehead]

D'Oh

 

Yeah, you already knew that. Hehehe.

[stan herman]

Let me be a sour puss, here is where philosophy does us wrong. It devolves into how many angels on a pin; then into semantics.

 

By making the Tao everything, everywhere, even in the hamburger, we make it nothing. Tao is trivia. An intellectual play thing.

 

Even as low level philosophical taoists I think we need to focus on Tao as Path; a way of being that is in accordance with nature. We know we're getting close when there is less friction in our lives and minds.

 

my 2 bits.

 

Response #1: " Tao is trivia. An intellectual play thing." Absolutely correct.

 

Response #2: "Even as low level philosophical taoists I think we need to focus on Tao as Path; a way of being..." Absolutely correct.

 

Response #17: So there you are

[Z3N]

Everything is trivia. Every word is a lie. There is no Tao an there is no path. Everything apart from this is just an regurgitation of sensory data of brain matter function. Locked down in a mental circuit of likes and dislikes and so on. The mind is galvanized by this due to lack of universal knowledge of the Tao. And also it a evolutionary hurdle of this species. Hence the life on this planet as we know it. The critical mass of the human species is all under a state of dellusion when it comes to the understanding of the cosmos. You humans are drawing closer to it slowly but are lacking the internal science of awareness, energy and matter along with our place on a quantum level. And of course I mean not by machines, computers and whatever else. The Tao of death and consciousness. To know life is to be mortal. To know death is to be immortal. This is all Tao. And still there is no such thing as tao Hahahahahaha! :-)

[Marblehead]

I am glad I am not human and will not fit into that basket you have created.

 

But you go ahead on, my Martian friend.

[Z3N]

I am glad I am not human and will not fit into that basket you have created.

 

But you go ahead on, my Martian friend.

Hahahaha no need to create. We are all born from the stars

[Marblehead]

Hahahaha no need to create. We are all born from the stars

 

Yep. Carl Sagan told me that and I believed him.