can't you see the gods can take away your family, your children, your wealth, your health, even your sexual abilities anytime they want to?

[Marblehead]

who ever says the physical aspect of the Tao includes marriage, sex, work, career, family and children?

 

That's part of it for most. Look around. You see it everywhere. Okay, you have chosen to not pursue those things. That's fine.

 

There are many species of animals that mate for life. Sex is natural - to repress it is unnatural. Sure, if you are living off the efforts of parents you don't have to work but most species of animals have to work for their survival. And those who do have to work it is better to have a career that it is to do day-labor work their entire life. You have family, don't you? A mother and a father? You are a child of their mating. That means they had at least one child.

 

Brings to mind the old joke question: Did your parents have any children that lived?

 

So, yes, we each make our own choices in life. I'm not saying that your choices are bad - just different from the normal. I saw earlier that you are seeking immortality. That's fine. I wish you success.

[bodyoflight]

That's part of it for most. Look around. You see it everywhere. Okay, you have chosen to not pursue those things. That's fine.

 

There are many species of animals that mate for life. Sex is natural - to repress it is unnatural. Sure, if you are living off the efforts of parents you don't have to work but most species of animals have to work for their survival. And those who do have to work it is better to have a career that it is to do day-labor work their entire life. You have family, don't you? A mother and a father? You are a child of their mating. That means they had at least one child.

 

Brings to mind the old joke question: Did your parents have any children that lived?

 

So, yes, we each make our own choices in life. I'm not saying that your choices are bad - just different from the normal. I saw earlier that you are seeking immortality. That's fine. I wish you success.

 

When humans learn to transform the sexual energies instead of using it for procreation, this will be the next golden age.

[steve]

buddhists talk about enlightenment all the time

 

but is there a difference between attachment and dedication?

 

the dalai lama talks about enlightenment all the time..

 

but is he attached or dedicated?

 

i think there is no one human in this forum or on the face of the planet who have the credentials to judge if a spiritual practitioner is truly dedicated or attached to spirituality..

 

i have different goals from you.. i judge life differently from you..

 

why should I live my life according to your expectations and standards?

I look at attachment as having a quality of identifying with, linking one's happiness or fulfillment to the outcome.

Dedication can be present, a conscious decision to remain focused and involved, without linking it to one's happiness.

In this way, attachment and dedication are different for me.

 

I think the Dalai Lama is both dedicated and attached. He is human after all.

I think all humans have attachments. Some try to recognize and let them go, others don't.

They are never gone entirely, IMO, just more subtle, less consuming, or better hidden.

 

Please do not live your life according to my expectations or standards. I've never asked you to do that intentionally, and if I have done so unintentionally, please forgive me and disregard that message.

 

It is never selfish for me to live my life exactly as I see fit. Selfishness arises when I expect others to live their lives as I see fit. My responses to your posts have mostly been with the intention of helping you to see aspects that you may have overlooked or not yet seen. Furthermore, your comments or the way in which they are delivered have the distinct quality of communicating to others that they should be living their lives according to your expectations and standards. I am simply sharing alternative perspectives to this.

 

You have a telling way of projecting your dissatisfaction with self toward others. It is very clear in your posts.

You have been telling everyone on this forum, in a relatively abrupt and rude manner, that their ways are crap and yours is the only way. Now you tell me that you shouldn't live your life according to my expectations when I never suggested that you do so. Can you see what's going on there?

 

The first step on the path to cultivation, enlightenment, whatever word you like, is to look carefully at yourself.

This can be done anywhere - India, Tibet, New York, prison, it doesn't matter.

You're not doing that work at all yet, you're just looking outside yourself.

Trying to find the best system, guru, place to learn. All that is fluff.

Wherever you end up, with whatever guru or method, you will ultimately be faced with the task of looking deeply at yourself and getting to know what you/that is.

 

"I can think. I can wait. I can fast." Siddhartha by Hesse

[steve]

who ever says the physical aspect of the Tao includes marriage, sex, work, career, family and children?

No one needs to say it, all you need to do is open your eyes and mind and heart.

The Tao is not something that you or anyone else defines with words or opinions.

The Tao is that which is, all around us and inside us, always.

Your desire to hide from your heart, society, and the opposite (or same) gender is also part of the Tao but does not cause money, sex, marriage, career, family, children, etc... to cease to be a part of it. If those things were not part of the Tao, you would not exist, nor any of us.

You need to get out of your mind and into your life a little, if you can't see this already.

[steve]

well what do you want me to say?

 

that a recovering alcoholic should find love in another recovering alcoholic so both of them can understand the demons plaguing each other?

 

i am sorry mate but the truth hurts and someone gotta say the painful truth sometimes even if it is not politically correct..

Your comments about Manitou's relationship are just a reflection of your ignorance and lack of life experience.

Often, the only people who can understand and support each other are those who have experienced similar trauma.

That is why there are support groups for traumatic experiences (veterans, rape, murder, PTSD, cancer, depression, addiction, and on and on...).

A non-addict can never understand the pain and suffering of an addict fully, hence they usually are unable to ride out the hellish ups and downs associated with living with a recovering addict.

Recovering addicts are generally the best support possible for each other.

That is fact, your opinion and my opinion don't matter.

[Marblehead]

When humans learn to transform the sexual energies instead of using it for procreation, this will be the next golden age.

 

Perhaps. But I think it would be an unnatural one.

[goldisheavy]

buddhists talk about enlightenment all the time

 

but is there a difference between attachment and dedication?

 

Good question. The difference is one of convention. Being obsessed with something that the society or some community of people approve of is called "dedication." Being obsessed with something that the society or some community of people disapprove of is called "attachment." It's the same psychological process, but when it involves something that's socially approved it's called "dedication" and when it involves something that's not socially approved it's called "attachment."

 

the dalai lama talks about enlightenment all the time..

 

but is he attached or dedicated?

 

Let me guess: you know the answer. You've jumped into Dalai Lama's heart and you know the truth about Dalai Lama's spiritual state. Perhaps you're making an appeal to convention here. Dalai Lama is conventionally considered a model buddhist, and buddhists are supposed to be non-attached, so we can add a conventional 1 plus another conventional 1 and get a conventional 2, while actually not really knowing anything.

 

i think there is no one human in this forum or on the face of the planet who have the credentials to judge if a spiritual practitioner is truly dedicated or attached to spirituality..

 

If that's true, then why are you making such judgments all the time? Or are you not on this forum?

Edited May 21, 2011 by goldisheavy

[三江源]

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Edited March 11, 2015 by 三江源

[三江源]

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Edited March 11, 2015 by 三江源

[Vajrahridaya]

Bol is now taking a bit of a break from the board. Whether or not he will spend his break deep in the himalayas, we can but guess.

 

 

 

Aw, I enjoyed the kids passion. Anyway... I don't know what the offending factor was... but I trust it was offending.

[Marblehead]

Aw, I enjoyed the kids passion. Anyway... I don't know what the offending factor was... but I trust it was offending.

 

Yeah, he was pretty spunky. Personal insult. Keep them off the freaking forum if you want to remain on the forum.

[goldisheavy]

Bol is now taking a bit of a break from the board. Whether or not he will spend his break deep in the himalayas, we can but guess.

 

 

 

I'll also go on the record saying that while I disagreed with bodyoflight on a number of important issues, overall I had no problem with him. I either wan't offended at all (true most of the time) or I was offended only slightly and I considered my offended state in those cases to be purely my own internal problem, for which I take responsibility.

Edited May 21, 2011 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

Yeah, he was pretty spunky. Personal insult. Keep them off the freaking forum if you want to remain on the forum.

 

It's hard to discuss issues that are near and dear our hearts without at times delving into an insult or two. I think we should keep the overall intent in the mind and be ready to forgive people.

[Vajrahridaya]

It's hard to discuss issues that are near and dear our hearts without at times delving into an insult or two. I think we should keep the overall intent in the mind and be ready to forgive people.

 

Yup.

[Nanashi]

Very good point, GiH. I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended recently on the forum. I can sometimes be unnecessarily cruel with words.

[Marblehead]

It's hard to discuss issues that are near and dear our hearts without at times delving into an insult or two. I think we should keep the overall intent in the mind and be ready to forgive people.

 

How can I disagree with that? Hehehe.

 

However, a standard has been set and the moderators are doing their best to enforce it.

 

You remember when I first joined this forum and all the personal insults being thrown around as if they were rose pedals. Yes, I played the game. But I think I can honestly say that I never threw the first stone. If no one ever throws the first stone no windows will be broken - no forgiveness will ever be needed.

[C T]

No I am chasing after something .. a prize greater than money or sex or family or children..

 

I am chasing after immortality itself...

 

How is that any different?

 

Because the powers gained when immortality is given will give you the new freedoms of creating any reality which you want..

 

"Its good to enjoy things, enjoy life. People think that leading a spiritual life means that you have to put yourself through great self-torture for the teaching...but why? The point is simply good intention." - Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

[goldisheavy]

You remember when I first joined this forum and all the personal insults being thrown around as if they were rose pedals. Yes, I played the game. But I think I can honestly say that I never threw the first stone. If no one ever throws the first stone no windows will be broken - no forgiveness will ever be needed.

 

That's a dishonest way to live. In this way of life you prize comfort over honesty and the result will not be a good one in the long term. I am not completely against the comfort and I am not saying anything extreme here. Comfort is valuable, but sometimes comfort contends with sincerity and in my opinion we should let the sincerity win at least in some arenas of life.

[Informer]

All false attachements. All of these thing will be gone one day no matter how you slice it.

[Marblehead]

That's a dishonest way to live. In this way of life you prize comfort over honesty and the result will not be a good one in the long term. I am not completely against the comfort and I am not saying anything extreme here. Comfort is valuable, but sometimes comfort contends with sincerity and in my opinion we should let the sincerity win at least in some arenas of life.

 

I don't think it is being dishonest. It is possible to disagree in the strongest of terms without being disrespectful to the individual we are disagreeing with.

 

Afterall, on a forum such as this we don't even know the people we are talking with except the little that has been shared by each individual and that is only what they wanted to share with us and even that may not even be true.

 

So we are discussing concepts, not the individual. Why the need to insult the individual?

[Marblehead]

All false attachements. All of these thing will be gone one day no matter how you slice it.

 

Hehehe. Well, sure, but that's beside the point. We have to argue about something. Life is so boring when all we do is agree with each other.

[Informer]

I choose to but these fears and doubts aside to focus on other things, generally.

[Marblehead]

Well, I have a lot of doubts but I can't think of any fears right off hand.

[Non]

I agree, no realization is permanent. Flush buddhahood down the toilet.

 

@BoL

 

You can't find joys in daily life. So now you chase after spiritual bliss thinking it will lead to salvation. Gold is right, you are trading one fear for another, one goal for another. At heart, it's no different than compared to a man chasing sexual pleasures. You are seeking states, seeking pleasures, seeking powers. How are you any different?

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with either! Be ok with suffering and death. Accept them totally. When you are in struggle with them you are simply creating a reaction, a polarity that strengthens their significance. Everything simple comes and goes, just be at peace with the world.

 

 

This is hell. It's only suffering. You can't accept. If you try to accept you're seeking. Any seeking ends up in suffering. You don't accept it. Isn't it impossible to accept? Something will always get on your nerves. Something will always separate you from true attainment. It's what keeps you alive. You want to truly attain? Wouldn't death be the only culmination of attainment?

 

This is why the pursuit of happiness is useless. Nothing is ever attainable. You always fail. Always!

 

Life is just failure, nothing else.. because it's hell. At least that's all I've experienced. See normal poeple can at least strive for something and actually attain it. Me on the other hand, no amount of striving gets me anywhere. It's always bound to be a failure it seems. Infinite failure.

 

Same thing with cultivation, same thing with everything else.

 

And actually, buddhism doesn't really say to seek happiness but to be emotionless. When you're trying to accept reality, you're actually still seeking happiness. Accept unacceptance also.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Non

[Non]

Yeah, sad about the singer. It is probably a given that her life is changed forever. I hope she pulls through it.

 

 

 

Well, you know I don't hold to the concepts of gods but you are right, I think. As long as we continue to put ourself in a position where crap can happen to us it is very likely that crap will continue to happen to us.

 

Words from a song: If nobody else loves you, you can always love yourself.

 

And that is meaning love without the inflated ego.

 

 

Well just WTH is God then?

 

What love? There is love?

 

How do you "attain love and communion with God" if all is failure and seeking gets you nowhere?

 

Well if "God" is the "atman" or "higher self" whatever you want to call it, then what is godS plural?

Edited May 22, 2011 by Non