bindo

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Live with your disbeliefs. Live in your cage of fear and insincerities. Call everyone who challenges you liars. Keep playing your game of cards. And surely die that same way. There no one here at loss but yourself.

 

I wish you could learn to debate! I have been practicing Kunlun and Red Phoenix since Jan. of this year. I think I have a certain perspective from which I write. So far the only effects I have are horrific nightmares. Not all the blissy feelings you have.

 

I always question the teacher! Apparently you don't!

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If the pictures are just promotional material, that makes Max a liar. He has shown these pictures in seminars as evidence of Kan's rainbow body status.

 

So if these are faked, it means he and Kan set up these photos purposefully to deceive practitioners and the public. It would seriously damage his credibility.

If he does not give two hoots about his public image, and not too concerned what outsiders think about him, why would he be concerned about his credibility?

 

Your words: "I'm not sure he minds as much anymore of people calling him a fraud."

 

(Just curious...)

 

**************************************

 

 

On a side note -

 

RV mentioned (a few posts up) the possibility that energy has a moral intelligence... i think it has. Additionally, and more crucially, i believe it/She also possesses evolutionary intelligence. (Cool thought, RV! :) )

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If he does not give two hoots about his public image, and not too concerned what outsiders think about him, why would he be concerned about his credibility?

 

Your words: "I'm not sure he minds as much anymore of people calling him a fraud."

 

(Just curious...)

 

**************************************

 

 

On a side note -

 

RV mentioned (a few posts up) the possibility that energy has a moral intelligence... i think it has. Additionally, and more crucially, i believe it/She also possesses evolutionary intelligence. (Cool thought, RV! :) )

 

 

If the life force has moral intelligence, then it certainly does not show itself on this planet.

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Why is this not being done? If kunlun, or any other method for that matter (this is more or less a kunlun thread, but I think it applies) gets so much done, then why isn't anybody actually DOING something???? Seems contradictory to claim you want to spread some good teaching, but then not actually do everything you could possibly do to transmit it in the best manner.

Kan is a gifted being and I wouldn't compare him to every other human being.

 

Give it some time: it takes 8 to 9 months for a baby fetus to develop, another twenty years for him/her to becoming a mature adult. Kunlun has been out for only three four years. People practice for lifetimes and if you want to think in Buddhist terms, more than that. And it's not like people who practice are in seclusion devoting themselves to the art everyday. We are lay people and have our own stuff to do too. Just give it some time. :closedeyes: .

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If the life force has moral intelligence, then it certainly does not show itself on this planet.

Thats because you are trying to analyze the whole picture based on your constricted view of about 7 percent of the iceberg. Naturally that you understand to be quite limiting, dont you?

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If he does not give two hoots about his public image, and not too concerned what outsiders think about him, why would he be concerned about his credibility?

 

Your words: "I'm not sure he minds as much anymore of people calling him a fraud."

 

(Just curious...)

 

**************************************

 

 

On a side note -

 

RV mentioned (a few posts up) the possibility that energy has a moral intelligence... i think it has. Additionally, and more crucially, i believe it/She also possesses evolutionary intelligence. (Cool thought, RV! :) )

Because there are practitioners like me who would be offended by him putting out such lies. I would rethink about continuing the practice even if it worked and whatnot, because it would show that there is a gaping hole in him as a teacher and until I find out why he put out such lies, I would drop out of his system.

 

When I mentioned "people" I meant gossipers and speculators. Imagine you worked your entire lifetime on a certain craft and when sharing it with others for their own benefit, they call you a fraud and a liar. I certainly don't know how Max feels, but I would feel absolutely discouraged to share knowledge.

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I wish you could learn to debate! I have been practicing Kunlun and Red Phoenix since Jan. of this year. I think I have a certain perspective from which I write. So far the only effects I have are horrific nightmares. Not all the blissy feelings you have.

 

I always question the teacher! Apparently you don't!

I'm not debating you.

 

For the first year of practice when my mind was filled with doubt and uncertainty it took me a long time to begin to feel anything. I was sick often, had a few fevers, cried, had a lot of emotional difficulties and more. It's just the beginning of practice.

 

I wish you luck.

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Because there are practitioners like me who would be offended by him putting out such lies. I would rethink about continuing the practice even if it worked and whatnot, because it would show that there is a gaping hole in him as a teacher and until I find out why he put out such lies, I would drop out of his system.

 

When I mentioned "people" I meant gossipers and speculators. Imagine you worked your entire lifetime on a certain craft and when sharing it with others for their own benefit, they call you a fraud and a liar. I certainly don't know how Max feels, but I would feel absolutely discouraged to share knowledge.

Cheers. Thanks for clarifying L7.

 

(Just want to say that in the more 'secret' levels of spiritual cultivation, its often hard to grasp the internal workings of them teachers simply because we are not at that level. If we were allowed into their heads for an hour even, and get to see things thru their eyes, who knows where we will end up?)

 

.............................................................................................

 

(Just a thought) Sometimes strange and wonderful things happen that defies analysis. Medical miracles we have all heard plenty of. Scientists tend to conveniently sweep these 'spontaneous healings' under their clinical rugs. They are not comfortable as yet to explore 'the other side', me thinks. So all these suggestions and demands about submitting spiritual masters to lab tests are merely wishful thinking, at best. They (the scientists) have yet to successfully deal with things that are happening in their own realm, let alone venture into realms that could potentially give them (literally) nightmares, cold-sweats and more befuddlement.

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The bolded part is where I disagree. I can give you reasons/excuses as to why it's not easy, such as "energy has its own intelligence and decides not to work at those times" etc...but it's not like I actually know. It's just a guess. But yeah...it generally doesn't work for me to reproduce strange results. They spontaneously happen to me (in the verifiable external world) without any of my own control.

 

So something significantly weird will happen, other people will notice how weird it is, and it will coincide with me practicing something...yet I can't replicate it or actually prove to them (or myself) that it was due to the practice or my path.

 

This reminds me of when I was reading David Hume (I think it was) back in a philosophy class. One of the things we talked about was some power of "necessary connection." Like, I light something on fire, and smoke comes out. But there doesn't seem to be anything that "makes" the smoke come out. Like, sure, you can analyze it at the smallest level and go, "well, some comes out when this happens." But it's more correlation than causation. When atoms move around faster, things heat up. Is it hot because atoms move around? We like to think so, but there's nothing in our experience (one could argue) that makes it so, and in fact, we can conceive of a situation in which atoms moving around more would heat up....

 

How does this translate? It doesn't, really.

 

So you could argue philosophically about whether doing a practice heals you, or whether you were healed, and might have healed even if you weren't doing the practice, but in terms of PRACTICAL USAGE, it doesn't matter, and CAN be scientifically verified.

 

So, again, if all these people are going around making claims like, "oh this practice can do this thing (which by the way is easily scientifically verifiable if it were actually happening)", then, in order to verify the legitimacy of the claim, it should be tested.

 

Kan is a gifted being and I wouldn't compare him to every other human being.

 

Give it some time: it takes 8 to 9 months for a baby fetus to develop, another twenty years for him/her to becoming a mature adult. Kunlun has been out for only three four years. People practice for lifetimes and if you want to think in Buddhist terms, more than that. And it's not like people who practice are in seclusion devoting themselves to the art everyday. We are lay people and have our own stuff to do too. Just give it some time. :closedeyes: .

 

I thought Kunlun was a "quick-quick" practice, getting you results super fast. Or does asking questions slow the process? Is it because it introduces fear and doubt?

 

That's be the stupidest thing to do.

 

Stage magicians publicly do stunts all the time. Uri Geller (stage magician) had university science departments devoted to figuring out how he bent spoons. It was a STAGE TRICK and he had UNIVERSITIES trying to figure out the mechanism. And he was FAKE.

 

Imagine what would happen if a single REAL guru/master showed up. I dunno, something like REAL PROGRESS for humanity?

 

Imagine you worked your entire lifetime on a certain craft and when sharing it with others for their own benefit, they call you a fraud and a liar. I certainly don't know how Max feels, but I would feel absolutely discouraged to share knowledge.

 

I'd do what every other innovator and visionary has done in the past (from Jesus to the Wright brothers):

 

SLAP THEM IN THE FACE WITH HARD, UNDENIABLE PROOF OF WHAT IT IS I'M SAYING I CAN DO!!!

 

For a person who is supposed to be at peace with themselves, I find it hard to believe they'd have such low self esteem when it comes to sharing knowledge.

Edited by Sloppy Zhang

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I thought Kunlun was a "quick-quick" practice, getting you results super fast. Or does asking questions slow the process? Is it because it introduces fear and doubt?

It depends on the individual, but Max has said for practices like the Sah breath, it can be as quick as 72 minutes to attain the body. Basically the potential for quick quick path is there, but whether or not a person can travel at that pace is difficult to say.

 

The book recommends 6 months of diligent practice of level 1 before moving to level 2. I guess you can do that, but not many can break through level 1 at that speed. I tried doing level 2 too early, and nearly burnt myself; my body couldn't handle it.

 

Stage magicians publicly do stunts all the time. Uri Geller (stage magician) had university science departments devoted to figuring out how he bent spoons. It was a STAGE TRICK and he had UNIVERSITIES trying to figure out the mechanism. And he was FAKE.

 

Imagine what would happen if a single REAL guru/master showed up. I dunno, something like REAL PROGRESS for humanity?

 

I'd do what every other innovator and visionary has done in the past (from Jesus to the Wright brothers):

 

SLAP THEM IN THE FACE WITH HARD, UNDENIABLE PROOF OF WHAT IT IS I'M SAYING I CAN DO!!!

 

For a person who is supposed to be at peace with themselves, I find it hard to believe they'd have such low self esteem when it comes to sharing knowledge.

Yes, it's all good when it's fake. When it's fake you can go on stage and show it to the world. They will easily accept that it is fake and move on. But what if it's real? What if it's not fake?

 

Then it completely changes people's mindsets about reality. It threatens their view of the world, their religion, and basically their life. Do you realize what kind of fucked up things will happen if someone suddenly went public and showed that he can become a light being? Be invisible? Fire stuff out of his hands? That they have super natural healing abilities? I imagine it'd be quite different than merely bending spoons.

 

People will probably crucify him as the devil, the antichrist or whatever. Religions will be formed around him. There will be petitions, commercializations, yada yada. It'll be one giant mess if it is "scientifically proven." A magician, a liar. Scientists probably couldn't wait to dissect his body, put him through tests, all for the "progress" of humanity.

Edited by Lucky7Strikes

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For a person who is supposed to be at peace with themselves, I find it hard to believe they'd have such low self esteem when it comes to sharing knowledge.

Even the Buddha discouraged teaching those who were not ready. It is an unnecessary burden. Let's say you have a medicine that could cure this patient but the patient vehemently refuses you and your cure. Calls you a fraud and an exploiter. How would you feel?

Edited by Lucky7Strikes

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Yes, it's all good when it's fake. When it's fake you can go on stage and show it to the world. They will easily accept that it is fake and move on. But what if it's real? What if it's not fake?

 

My point is that people DID think it was real. Uri Geller was running around telling everyone he really WAS psychic. People actually thought he was legit and real time and money went in to researching how he did it.

 

.... Only to find it was elaborate trickery. Okay, the world is as we think it is.

 

Now what happens if someone REAL gets studied? We might find life isn't what we think it is! We might find humans really do have amazing potential! Suddenly practices are taken more seriously, and people actually CARE about stuff!

 

Then it completely changes people's mindsets about reality. It threatens their view of the world, their religion, and basically their life. Do you realize what kind of fucked up things will happen if someone suddenly went public and showed that he can become a light being? Be invisible? Fire stuff out of his hands? That they have super natural healing abilities? I imagine it'd be quite different than merely bending spoons.

 

It would be so fuckin' awesome, that's what it'd be. Would society as we know it cease to exist? Hell yeah. Because people wouldn't feel the need to cough up thousands of dollars when they get sick- they can just heal themselves. People wouldn't spend their lives stuck in school- they could learn by traveling the world astrally. People wouldn't need to eat- they could purify themselves through life energy and ascend to the higher planes.

 

It's called evolution of humanity. Isn't that what everyone is talking about here? Or do we only want society's consciousness to evolve when nobody has anything to lose? After the current society has fed, clothed, and sheltered the entirety of the world? Don't hold your breath for that.

 

People will probably crucify him as the devil, the antichrist or whatever. Religions will be formed around him. There will be petitions, commercializations, yada yada. It'll be one giant mess if it is "scientifically proven." A magician, a liar. Scientists probably couldn't wait to dissect his body, put him through tests, all for the "progress" of humanity.

 

Well if he was immortal then I don't think our measly scientists could get to him very easily.

 

Or does he only have superpowers in front of a crowd of students who would never do him harm? As soon as someone wants to take a scalpel to him, he can't clairvoyantly see them coming, can't turn invisible, can't fly away in his golden dragon body, and can't do whatever else (I'd say "shoot fireballs", but then someone would say nobody claimed that, though they were your words, not mine, but yeah, if he could shoot fireballs, he wouldn't have much to worry about).

 

 

Basically, he's all super powered unless someone wants to hurt him. He's all "I don't care what anybody thinks!" until people talk smack about his life long achievement, then he has hurt feelings.

 

Seriously, you realize you're going back and forth here, right?

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Even the Buddha discouraged teaching those who were not ready. It is an unnecessary burden. Let's say you have a medicine that could cure this patient but the patient vehemently refuses you and your cure. Calls you a fraud and an exploiter. How would you feel?

 

I'd tell them if they want to suffer under their illness, that's on them.

 

Then I would proceed to show them all the data on how the medicine works, teach them a bit about biology and medicine, and generally show them why it works.

 

If they still refuse, they can choose that. I don't care. If they call me a fraud, they are just ignorant, because I've done everything in my power to teach them. (key phrase: everything in my power, I didn't just quit or not even try because I thought I wouldn't be able to convince them)

 

But I wouldn't NOT tell them about the cure because I'm afraid that my feelings would get hurt by their wrathful ignorance. It's called having a backbone.

Edited by Sloppy Zhang

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Now what happens if someone REAL gets studied? We might find life isn't what we think it is! We might find humans really do have amazing potential! Suddenly practices are taken more seriously, and people actually CARE about stuff!

 

Why do we have to study someone scientifically in order to know this? Aren't these things self-evident...just from doing the practices on your own?

 

You are someone REAL.

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Hi CowTao. :) Yes, I tend to believe this. Then the scientific investigator would then have to be at the same cultivation level to truly understand the inner workings of high level cultivators. No? :huh:

 

There is not a need to understand the internal workings in order to understand the physical effects.

 

If a practice can make a paralyzed person walk, it doesn't matter if you're a doctor, a cultivator, or a 12 year old. You can see how a paralyzed person can walk from a certain practice.

 

Now, perhaps a better understanding of the practice might be necessary to DO it. But the scientific observer does not necessarily need to comprehend the practice (through subsequent exploration and learning they may come to grasp what's going on and how the practice works). But on a demonstrable level (in order to find out if it is even possible) not very necessary.

 

Just like it's not necessary for me to understand physics to know that if I drop a bowling ball on my foot, I'm probably going to feel pain.

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Why do we have to study someone scientifically in order to know this? Aren't these things self-evident...just from doing the practices on your own?

 

You are someone REAL.

 

To know that what's happening isn't a figment of my own imagination.

 

I think someone on this board posted a link to someone who wrote up a report about psilocybin usage as a means to explore/fix psychological problems. The patient (who was also a psychologist, if I recall correctly) wrote down his hallucinogenic response.

 

It stuck with me, because I have had meditative experiences that are JUST like that. I've been at this for 4 years, and it's taken me that long, and all I have to show for it is something a 40 year old man can get on drugs. Huh.

 

Yet there are people going around saying, "oh yeah, you can awaken clairvoyance, you can self heal, you can astral travel and explore other worlds, you can even become immortal!"

 

And I'm thinking, "I've been at this for years, and never experienced anything like that, nor have I come across a person who has, so why does no one do this, showing once and for all that it could be done?"

 

And then there's reason upon reason excuse upon excuse for why they can't prove it. "Doing it yourself is the only way to REALLY validate it." "It's not about powers, that's the ego talking." "What good is it if I do all the work?" Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH.

 

While gurus/masters/teachers/whatever are running around talking about curing cancer, having paraplegics walk, and being able to clairvoyantly see things, we have real people suffering from cancer, the inability to walk, and missing persons who cannot after YEARS of investigation be found.

 

WHAT GOOD ARE THESE PEOPLE DOING BY NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR WORDS?

Edited by Sloppy Zhang

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To know that what's happening isn't a figment of my own imagination.

 

Good answer.

 

I wrote a reply but the fact is that there's so much more for me to experience, that I just shouldn't speak.

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To know that what's happening isn't a figment of my own imagination.

 

I think someone on this board posted a link to someone who wrote up a report about psilocybin usage as a means to explore/fix psychological problems. The patient (who was also a psychologist, if I recall correctly) wrote down his hallucinogenic response.

 

It stuck with me, because I have had meditative experiences that are JUST like that. I've been at this for 4 years, and it's taken me that long, and all I have to show for it is something a 40 year old man can get on drugs. Huh.

 

Yet there are people going around saying, "oh yeah, you can awaken clairvoyance, you can self heal, you can astral travel and explore other worlds, you can even become immortal!"

 

And I'm thinking, "I've been at this for years, and never experienced anything like that, nor have I come across a person who has, so why does no one do this, showing once and for all that it could be done?"

 

And then there's reason upon reason excuse upon excuse for why they can't prove it. "Doing it yourself is the only way to REALLY validate it." "It's not about powers, that's the ego talking." "What good is it if I do all the work?" Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH.

 

While gurus/masters/teachers/whatever are running around talking about curing cancer, having paraplegics walk, and being able to clairvoyantly see things, we have real people suffering from cancer, the inability to walk, and missing persons who cannot after YEARS of investigation be found.

 

WHAT GOOD ARE THESE PEOPLE DOING BY NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR WORDS?

 

 

Excellent points! I have asked these same questions for years and no one has answers.

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Good answer.

 

I wrote a reply but the fact is that there's so much more for me to experience, that I just shouldn't speak.

 

I see.

 

Excellent points! I have asked these same questions for years and no one has answers.

 

-_- yeah I'm not very optimistic. But you never know. Sometimes it gets the wheels turning in other peoples' minds, and before you know it, revolution! :P

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Excellent points! I have asked these same questions for years and no one has answers.

 

That's because you have the answers. No one else.

 

If a scientist somehow proves that someone can see the future, I will simply doubt the scientist. I will want a second study done.

 

But when I personally see the future time after time, it becomes harder to doubt.

 

Not just using that as an random example. It has actually happened in my life numerous times. Which is why I debate from this side!

 

However, I do think most of Sloppy's points are great...especially in regards to helping others. Wouldn't that be nice? But that's not always in accord with the great mystery, apparently.

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My point is that people DID think it was real. Uri Geller was running around telling everyone he really WAS psychic. People actually thought he was legit and real time and money went in to researching how he did it.

 

.... Only to find it was elaborate trickery. Okay, the world is as we think it is.

 

Now what happens if someone REAL gets studied? We might find life isn't what we think it is! We might find humans really do have amazing potential! Suddenly practices are taken more seriously, and people actually CARE about stuff!

 

 

 

It would be so fuckin' awesome, that's what it'd be. Would society as we know it cease to exist? Hell yeah. Because people wouldn't feel the need to cough up thousands of dollars when they get sick- they can just heal themselves. People wouldn't spend their lives stuck in school- they could learn by traveling the world astrally. People wouldn't need to eat- they could purify themselves through life energy and ascend to the higher planes.

This sounds awesome, but is absolutely unrealistic.

 

Society and the establish hierarchy would quickly eliminate anyone posing such threats. You realize the revolution mentioned above would be catastrophic for the economy, religion, and social order in general right? There's a reason why people make people cough up thousands of dollars, why we all have to go through a worthless educational system, and why people are living as wage slaves. No way the system lets itself collapse because one guy supposedly turns into light....

 

It's called evolution of humanity. Isn't that what everyone is talking about here? Or do we only want society's consciousness to evolve when nobody has anything to lose? After the current society has fed, clothed, and sheltered the entirety of the world? Don't hold your breath for that.

Yeah and that's not gonna come by Max going in front of the public and demonstrating powers. It's gonna probably start from you and me collectively. This is one reason I practice and urge others to practice, evolution doesn't happen because of one guy.

 

Well if he was immortal then I don't think our measly scientists could get to him very easily.

Jalus means immortality. So if what Max says is true, yes, he is immortal.

 

Or does he only have superpowers in front of a crowd of students who would never do him harm? As soon as someone wants to take a scalpel to him, he can't clairvoyantly see them coming, can't turn invisible, can't fly away in his golden dragon body, and can't do whatever else (I'd say "shoot fireballs", but then someone would say nobody claimed that, though they were your words, not mine, but yeah, if he could shoot fireballs, he wouldn't have much to worry about).

According to Max, from what I've heard from him in a seminar, he has subjected himself to medical studies several times. He has MRI photos and x-rays of his body that are quite abnormal compared to a normal human being (I was with a doctor who examined them alongside). And yes, again you can call those pictures fake, Max a master photoshopper. He says he cannot check into normal hospitals anymore because they will confiscate his body.

 

Basically, he's all super powered unless someone wants to hurt him. He's all "I don't care what anybody thinks!" until people talk smack about his life long achievement, then he has hurt feelings.

 

Seriously, you realize you're going back and forth here, right?

Of course it'll hurt his feelings. But why should he care too much about it? Should he care? I don't know. I'm not Max. I just feel the need to offer an opinion on this because I happen to devote time doing what he has taught. He probably does care because people who have never met him are turning potential students away through stupid unfound rumors like he is some reincarnation of a demon god blah blah. It hurts me too that the art he put out there gets a whole lot of baggage from people who have never practiced the art or met him or that people my age don't have the luck I do to have run into Kunlun and can only dream about the experiences in mystical books.

 

I'm not going back and forth, emotions like these are complicated. They are by nature back and forth. :P

Edited by Lucky7Strikes

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But that's not always in accord with the great mystery, apparently.

 

I really can't agree! Why? That point of view removes any responsibility from all humans. Further, that view is one of an overseeing parent.

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I really can't agree! Why? That point of view removes any responsibility from all humans. Further, that view is one of an overseeing parent.

 

I don't see how... I can try to help with my medical skills, but I can't with my energy healing (in)abilities. So that is being responsible.

 

Maybe I missed the point. My brain doesn't work like it used to.

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This sounds awesome, but is absolutely unrealistic.

 

Society and the establish hierarchy would quickly eliminate anyone posing such threats. You realize the revolution mentioned above would be catastrophic for the economy, religion, and social order in general right? There's a reason why people make people cough up thousands of dollars, why we all have to go through a worthless educational system, and why people are living as wage slaves. No way the system lets itself collapse because one guy supposedly turns into light....

 

 

Yeah and that's not gonna come by Max going in front of the public and demonstrating powers. It's gonna probably start from you and me collectively. This is one reason I practice and urge others to practice, evolution doesn't happen because of one guy.

 

 

Jalus means immortality. So if what Max says is true, yes, he is immortal.

 

 

According to Max, from what I've heard from him in a seminar, he has subjected himself to medical studies several times. He has MRI photos and x-rays of his body that are quite abnormal compared to a normal human being (I was with a doctor who examined them alongside). And yes, again you can call those pictures fake, Max a master photoshopper. He says he cannot check into normal hospitals anymore because they will confiscate his body.

 

 

Of course it'll hurt his feelings. But why should he care too much about it? Should he care? I don't know. I'm not Max. I just feel the need to offer an opinion on this because I happen to devote time doing what he has taught. He probably does care because people who have never met him are turning potential students away through stupid unfound rumors like he is some reincarnation of a demon god blah blah. It hurts me too that the art he put out there gets a whole lot of baggage from people who have never practiced the art or met him or that people my age don't have the luck I do to have run into Kunlun and can only dream about the experiences in mystical books.

 

I'm not going back and forth, emotions like these are complicated. They are by nature back and forth. :P

 

 

What are the abnormalities? Can you be specific? If Max is a realized being, then he will not be attached to any feelings or neg. remarks.

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