Path of Inquiry

[Cameron]

I was hanging with some family over the weekend and one of them was trying to get me to admit another of them was basically a narcissistic snob. I said yes, I love how he puts his nose up at everyone, it's such a great big nose, like a peacock displaying it's feathers

 

Finally I broke down and admitted my present philosophy, we should learn to appreciate people for who they are, not be critical of there so called faults.

 

I am not there yet I still fall into the trap of judging and comparing others all the time but narcisstic people can be fun at times. There probably not who you want to be with on a spiritual retreat or long trip but for a few hours they can be entertaining, and the narcissim may have helped them achieve greater goals like the Green Boy said.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Cameron

[Ian]

 

 

Anyway, sorry for the tease, Big Mind is pretty cool. Check it out. It's like a cross between parts work, gestalt therapy, Dzogchen, Advaita and Zen. Genpo Roshi asks to speak to various parts of you, starting with parts that are typically unconscious and/or rejected and that get in the way of moving into samadhi. So, "can I speak with the controller?" .... and then he will basically give the controller a pat on the back for the great job it's doing. Affirming each part. Letting it go. Then maybe "the fixer", "the judge", etc. Then he starts just directly calling forward big parts that most meditators assume take years to even taste, the reality being more like we can get a taste very simply at any time, it just takes years of meditation to stabilize them. So, "can I speak to the nongrasping nonseeking mind?" ... *bam* If you have even a small degree of subtle consciousness I think by this point you are sinking into a taste of a nice samadhi buzz. From there he might go on to various other layers, folding this "big mind" into "big heart" and then often ending in calling up a whole, functional self that embodies all of these parts successfully.

 

I had an mp3 of Genpo Roshi somewhere which sounded pretty similar. Called "different selves" or something.

Maybe it was the beta version.

[freeform]

.

Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[sean]

cloud_recluse, I'd dig that link if you can dig it up ... did you check the archival library in the antique west wing.

 

yoda, cam, freeform ... "narcissism" is a specific label mapping a dysfunctional process of ego formation. (Yes, just a map, not a absolutely real freeform. I know you have to get that in. ) It's like saying "obsessive compulsive" or "borderline personality". Of course healthy psychology isn't about shunning people or kicking them out of parties, ideally it's about understanding them and helping them move through their limitations into a more pleasurabe, more whole, truer expression of themselves. Narcissism is not a strong, healthy ego that helps us "go for the gold", free of worrying about external judgement. It's absolutely not a higher transcendence of self that is described in spiritual literature. It's quite close to the opposite. Everything the narcissist does is a compulsive attempt to project an image, often of competence and success, that is severely severely cut off from genuine body sensation / feelings ... this is accompanied by deep deep almost entirely unconscious sadness and rage at being imprisoned by this pathology, and a belief that they are nothing and worthless without their image. Narcissists can appear very successful, the business world thrives on people who can present a consistent, reliable image detached from authentic body content, but seriously, it's not a pretty thing ... So, compassion yes, pre/trans fallacy glorification, no!

 

freeform, re: BigMind, now that you mention it reminds me somewhat of the Core Transformation Process.

 

Ian, probably a beta version, I think he's been developing it for awhile.

 

 

Sean

[Cameron]

sean, from the persepctive of wholeness, would you say narcissistic people are really very emotionally needy and insecure people. That the narcissism is just an outward display covering some inner confusion or trauma?

 

Seems to me really confident people don't require narcissism and still can poke fun at themselves and laugh, as well as not look down on others.

 

Yoda, I wouldn't put Michael Jordan in the narcisism category from what I have seen of him at all. More like a great motivator and exceptional athlete .I don't remember when people call him the greatest basketball player ever him ever saying "yes, I am" which to me would be narcississm(lack of humilty).

 

but maybe I am still using the term incorrectly. It's not the same as arrogance or over inflated ego more like a neurotic behavior then?

Edited April 26, 2006 by Cameron

[sean]

sean, from the persepctive of wholeness, would you say narcissistic people are really very emotionally needy and insecure people. That the narcissism is just an outward display covering some inner confusion or trauma?

Again, just a psychoanalytic map and I'm not a psychoanalyst which adds another layer of conjecture but the description is that narcissists are almost completely cut off from their true, spontaneous feelings and act to convince themselves and others that an image they hold in their mind (often an image of efficiency, power, success) is true. Underneath though, yeah, there's gotta be a deep reservoir of suffering being held at bay, and likely an original trauma that made set the whole process in motion, first as a coping mechanism and then as an unconsious habit of being. If you are interested in the subject, check out Narcissim by Alexander Lowen, it's really pretty good.

 

 

Sean

[freeform]

[sean]

Also Cam, the book discusses how American culture in particular actually encourages narcissism, so it's no shock that many people have some degree of narcissistic characteristics. Actually, Cam, from the perspective of wholeness we are all pretty much narcissistic until we reach a point that we can consistently act with deep authenticity to the truth of how our bodies feel. I was thinking about this the other day in Yoga class. Strange story perhaps, but I was helping this girl into a bridge and I found her very attractive and started to sense a warmness in my genitals and that I could easily get an erection from remaining open and present to this woman. I didn't know what to do and I felt fear so I ended up having to cut myself off from her (nice spontaneous Freudian language choice here btw, heh) and sort of closing down energetically with her out of anxiety that I would get like a massive erection in a room full of people. Not sure if this is really narcissism, but perhaps it's kind of related to the same mechanism. Shutting down spontaneous, genuine full-body responses in favor of ego-controlled, marionette-style relationship of mind to body, and mind to world (never body to world).

 

Sean

[sean]

Firstly, Sean - I'm alittle disapointed that your third eye has disappeared .

LOL! You caught that. Yeah, I did that last night and then this morning I started to think it looked a little narcissistic.

I was writing about vulnerability today on the HT forum... I guess 'narcissistic people' (which I take to mean people that exhibit narcissism more often than some other quality) find it very difficult to be vulnerable. I've been thinking about this for a while - vulnerability is pretty important for higher-level attainment... To be vulnerably you have to leave behind any comforting illusions (especially the ones you hold most dear to you... such as your spiritual practice) - you have to stop searching for a comforting thought to retreat to (whether that's your image, or some other aspect) I've tried it and it's so damn hard!

OMG, yes, you hit the nail on the head! Narcissism is a complete rejection of vulnerability! The body, feelings, sexuality ... these are vulnerable. So the mind makes a God of the ego, detaches from the body, and projects an image of complete reliability ... the body is just a well-oiled machine that responds how the ego dictates. No accidental farting. No spontaneous erections. No sudden tears. No possibility for real, melting, love.

 

It's funny, you just made me realize how this detachment from vulnerability is often what I intuitively challenge in others when I'm attempting to open them to the possibility of a deeper spiritual experience. The integrity of my logic is almost secondary to calling upon this heart-broken-open humility in the face of this Mystery we are all moving through and a part of. Or perhaps in simpler terms, I'm just overdramatic.

 

Sean

[Yoda]

I'm calling Mother T, Bill, and Michael Jordan narcissists meaning "successful narcissists" whereas most other people haven't learned to be quite as fully self absorbed. I'd classify children and animals in the successful self absorption camp too.

 

One thing to keep in mind when throwing labels around is that it is absolutely impossible to feel what another person is feeling. We are forced to fall back on judging a person's actions based on our particular moral training they we learned when young and that gets reinforced by our particular peer group to crank out the correct label. To some Mother T is the bomb, to others she sucks... Ditto with folks like George Bush, Bill Gates, etc.

 

Judging others based on such a paltry amount of information isn't worth much. Furthermore, it cuts off one's energy if one judges too many things too negatively.

 

My successful narcissist doesn't get derailed judging others, but instead lives in the spirit of loving what it is he or she is living. The simple virtues of the child is where it's at, baby!

 

-Yodsterz

[Cameron]

Freeform, Sean..good stuff. Sean I feel you on the shutting down and freeform on the lack of vulrnabilty stuff.

 

And one of my things now(I suspect for awhile) is starting to pay attention and notice that 'shutting down' and loss of vulnerabilty. Really get into those subtle spaces where we lose contact with our true feelings and basically lie to ourselves and eachother. It is both beautiful and painful work to explore but absolutely essential for me to try to do so.

 

And I agree the truly enlightened have essentially become so vulrnable, or open, as to esssentially allow the rest of the universe..without rejecting...

 

I was talking about it with some people how we go through these moment to moment periods of opening and closing, opening and closing..my guess is becoming enlightened has something to do with opening..and then remaining open forever..but without it fucking up your life

Edited April 26, 2006 by Cameron

[sean]

I'm calling Mother T, Bill, and Michael Jordan narcissists meaning "successful narcissists" whereas most other people haven't learned to be quite as fully self absorbed. I'd classify children and animals in the successful self absorption camp too.

I think we are just using the term narcissism differently. IMO narcissism isn't merely self-absorbtion, it's a compulsive retreat from the body (it's sensations, vulnerability and inevitable death) into an ego image. It's not the innocent self-centeredness of children and animals. It's a corruption of a healthy, embodied sense of self ... it's thought to be a reaction to childhood trauma ... a coping mechanism is formed that splits ego from body, ego being "higher" and "body" being repressed to various extremes and considered "lower". Think "American Psycho", not Michael Jordan.

 

Sean

[neimad]

Narcissism is the key to greatness! It's the secret ingredient of anybody who is successful and passionate about something. I always think of Mother Theresa, Bill Gates and Michael Jordan--they are 100% wrapped up in their own thing and don't give a rip about what others think. Mentally, if not physically, they play outside the rules. That's what gives them the power to transcend the ordinary person who is always trying to please their inner mommy and society's panel of educators in the name of morality and thus divide their own energy, reducing their effectiveness and happiness.

 

 

I'm calling Mother T, Bill, and Michael Jordan narcissists meaning "successful narcissists" whereas most other people haven't learned to be quite as fully self absorbed. I'd classify children and animals in the successful self absorption camp too.

 

One thing to keep in mind when throwing labels around is that it is absolutely impossible to feel what another person is feeling. We are forced to fall back on judging a person's actions based on our particular moral training they we learned when young and that gets reinforced by our particular peer group to crank out the correct label. To some Mother T is the bomb, to others she sucks... Ditto with folks like George Bush, Bill Gates, etc.

 

Judging others based on such a paltry amount of information isn't worth much. Furthermore, it cuts off one's energy if one judges too many things too negatively.

 

My successful narcissist doesn't get derailed judging others, but instead lives in the spirit of loving what it is he or she is living. The simple virtues of the child is where it's at, baby!

 

-Yodsterz

 

 

yoda,

i understand what you are saying.

 

a phrase i coined myself to represent this is:

 

"selflessly selfish"

 

indicating that by being completely involved with the self and betterment of the self, we can't help but be anything other than selfless.

ultimately what truly benefits us, benefits everyone else and the environment too.

 

we are infinite consciousness having an individual human experience.

i, too, choose to be and enjoy that individual experience until the point when i once again return to the infinite.

[Ian]

Freeform, Sean..good stuff. Sean I feel you on the shutting down and freeform on the lack of vulrnabilty stuff.

 

And one of my things now(I suspect for awhile) is starting to pay attention and notice that 'shutting down' and loss of vulnerabilty. Really get into those subtle spaces where we lose contact with our true feelings and basically lie to ourselves and eachother. It is both beautiful and painful work to explore but absolutely essential for me to try to do so.

 

And I agree the truly enlightened have essentially become so vulrnable, or open, as to esssentially allow the rest of the universe..without rejecting...

 

I was talking about it with some people how we go through these moment to moment periods of opening and closing, opening and closing..my guess is becoming enlightened has something to do with opening..and then remaining open forever..but without it fucking up your life

 

At the end of the first day of the workshop I went to last weekend, the teacher did a demonstration where he walks towards a volunteer with dowsing rods to show the distance at which various chakras register. He then explains that if you go to a party that night, all open from the day, and drunk people stand in this radius, you'll basically get their hangover. (any the same with any negative stuff.) And he then gets the person to act as if they are trying not to be noticed and approaches them again, and their field has shrunk to about a quarter. It's a really effective demo.

 

Anyway, I suspect that you can only be completely vulnerable all the time if you are so clear that no part of you will resonate negatively with external stuff. In the meantime the question for me is how to stay conscious of how open I am or ain't.

 

And I'm finding the only guide I can use is in the physical. Literally how open I am, starting with gross posture and working in.

 

I find a really useful practice is to say affirmations or mantra or whatever (something nice, anyway) and say it subvocally, so that it only just escapes my lips but can resonate in my body, spreading out from the heart (or belly, less easy). Then it becomes very apparent where the vibration of the words won't go.

 

Dum de dum.. Better do some work. Good thread.

I

[hagar]

Ian,

 

Interesting story.

 

Funny but the only times I am able to stay open and vunerable for long is while suffering a serious hang over.

Then, there's no choice. Likewise when you are caught in a lie: wow, seldom am I so in the moment. Or when you remember that you have forgotten something important, or overslept, or do something embarrasing like farting in an elevator.

 

All wonderful glimpses of true reality.

 

So my take on opening and and realization is to embrace embarassment.

 

h

[Yoda]

When you fart in the elevator you have to turn on your blame thrower right then and there. You have to go on the attack.

[cloud recluse]

cloud_recluse, I'd dig that link if you can dig it up ... did you check the archival library in the antique west wing.

...Sean

 

If I can succesfully pass of the image of living in a remote mountain hermitage stocked with arcane lore,I will then start hinting that Im actually some kind of 2000 year old Adept etc I particularly like it that youve given my hermitage wings,THATS a nice touch.

 

But now to the more important business of wriggling out of promises.Ive not actually had a chance to check the books for Wilbers response to the criticism youve mentioned,& I mightnt get around to it for a while,Im sure its somewhere in his published material,just not sure where.Despite being a millenia old adept in a mist shrouded mountain monastery,Ive also been working my casual job A LOT over the past coupla days (my supply of lead transmuting philosophers stone is running a bit low)& hve been too eye weary to read much.Will get back to you on that one as soon as I can.

 

Yours Mysteriously,Cloud.

[cloud recluse]

...narcisstic people can be fun at times. There probably not who you want to be with on a spiritual retreat or long trip but for a few hours they can be entertaining, and the narcissim may have helped them achieve greater goals like the Green Boy said.

 

Cameron,I must disagree with your last observation.A close freind of mine has struggled with narcissism,in the sense of it being a disorder,for most of his adult life.When his bubble finally burst,& the turmoil hed been keeping out flooded back in,he then graduated into a functional alchoholic.While his narcissism was full blown,he was incapable of any creative activity,Now that he has direct experience of himself,painful as that is for him,he has started to make something of his life,despite the booze.

 

True narcissism,the personality disorder,sabotages accomplishment,though it can produce some fascinating & exotic displays.Its nice when you finally get to glimpse the person you suspected was lurking under the mask,no matter how shattered they are when they first emerge.Perhaps this personal experience is why Im so picky about the term Regards,Cloud.

[Cameron]

After what Sean wrote I don't think I was understanding narcissim correctly. I was thinking it was more like a snob, which I don't think is a diagnosable medical disorder

 

From what you guys are saying it's much more serious and I don't know anyone like that(That I am aware of).

[sean]

Its nice when you finally get to glimpse the person you suspected was lurking under the mask,no matter how shattered they are when they first emerge.

 

Do you recall the story of Jonathon Livingston Seagull? He was a "special" bird. He was not interested in screeching or squabbling with the other seagulls. He wanted no part of their fighting for a piece of rotten fish. He was above that. Where the other birds were content to remain within the limits of ordinary seagull life, Jonathon was obsessed with the idea of transcending those limits. So he went off on his own to become a pure spirit, interested only in pure love. No sex.

 

Does that choice make sense? Actually, as children, narcissists didn't have a choice. They were seduced into giving up their sexuality and offered, in its place, the image of being special. It was a poor bargain, but they had no choice. They may have even thought that one day they would experience a special sexuality, transcending ordinary love. As adults, they may realize that that is only possible in their imagination. Yet having made the initial deal, they are reluctant to renounce it. After all, aren't they special? Why should they give that up? But if they don't give up the image of being special, they have no chance of recovering the sexuality that is common to all people.

 

In saying this, I'm not denying that people do have special gifts. We are each unique, with our own abilities and talent, which are different from those of other persons. But that does not make us "special", for we recognize that others also have special gifts and talents, which we may not possess. If we are wise, we don't base our identity on our special ability. Our special gifts are like the furnishings in our home. Without a house to contain them, to give them meaning, they are just pieces of furniture. In a house, they take on character and distinction reflecting the quality of life. Our body is our house. It is the foundation of our identity. Writing a book doesn't make me a man. Being a man, which is the essence of my nature, I can also be a writer. If one can identify with one's body as one's being, if one can say simply, "I am a man" or "I am a woman", one will discover that one's true identity derives from one's common heritage, not from one's specialness.

 

What do I mean by one's common heritage? How is one not special? What is common to all people is the body and its functioning. On a basic level, all bodies function similarly. To be special, one must deny one's identification with one's body, for that identification would mean that one is like everyone else. A patient described her narcissistic mother in these words: "She thinks her shit doesn't stink". And to be special one must also deny one's feelings, for they, too, are common. Everyone loves, hates, and gets angry, sad, frightened, etc. The special person has to be above the body and its feelings.

 

Being special sets one apart. We refer to ordinary people as the common people. The common people have each other. They belong to the human race; they share the common struggle. But they are not tied to each other. The special person is bound initially to the individual who makes him or her feel special and later to those who regard him or her as special. The special person is not free -- that is an illusion. Where the special person lives in the clouds, in images, the common people are grounded in the reality of life. They laugh and cry, have pleasure and pain, know sorrow and joy. They live their lives and so are fulfilled. The special person imagines a life. And in this way the special person does create a special destiny -- to see his or her image crumble, as Dorian Gray did when reality confronted him.

 

As I have emphasized repeatedly, the true needs of a person are never satisfied through an image. A male is not fulfilled in his manhood by seducing women with a macho facade. No matter how effective his facade is, he will remain insecure inwardly as long as he is dependent on his facade. Because he cannot let go of it and give in to his feelings, his sexual responsiveness will suffer. Unfortunately, this lack of sexual fulfillment seems to confirm his inadequacy, leading him to invest more energy in the facade. His real need is to accept himself as he is, which means to accept all his feelings -- his fears, anger, sadness, and even despair. In accepting himself, he will find his true maleness. The same considerations apply to the woman who tries to project an image of alluring femininity. The image does nothing to increase her sexual feelings and actually diminishes them, because energy or libido is withdrawn from body feeling and invested in the ego. True beauty, for both men and women, lies in an inner aliveness, not an external show of looks. I have often heard women exclaim at the end of a session in whcih they had released their sadness by deep crying, "I must look like a mess". In truth, their eyes were shining and their faces radiant. They looked beautiful.

 

--- Excerpt from Narcissism : Denial of the True Self by Alexander Lowen.

 

Your line there made me think of that.

 

Sean

[neimad]

Jerry Stocking is the man when it comes to learning to be vulnerable... His approach is that you should feel your emotions to the full... if someone makes you feel sad - then feel sad! (without working out why! - that's mind games) feel the full feeling through... because feelings, attention, energy all move in cycles - if you feel sad without obstructing it with mental reasoning or trying to stop it or thinking happy thoughts, the emotion will reach the end of its cycle... just like a weed it sprouts, grows, then wilts and gets re-absorbed into the earth... the same goes for when you feel happy - feel it thoroughly dont grasp or try and make it last longer etc just feel it in your body without attaching lables ('I'm happy because I won the lottery' type thing)

 

one of my teachers also speaks about this in a way, but rather than indulging the emotion or analysing it... to go with it and see where it's point of contact lies. ummm difficult to explain, but when we have an emotion it's not the first point, it comes from somewhere.... so to go back to that track and find out where it actually comes from (and no the lotto is not where it actually came from) and by doing that emotions seem to lose power.

it's weird, i apply this kind of process subconsciously and i no longer have much in the way of emotion anymore. occassionally there are times when i lose my balance, or slight deviations from this content state..... but most of the time i would actually say i'm without emotion.

that doesn't mean i don't feel anything, i just wouldn't call what i feel an emotion because it's not the way i used to feel.

 

I've been thinking about the notion of 'attention' for a while... Attention is energy... when you interact with someone you tend to place your attention on where people tend to suck attention in (or where they put their own attention in their body)... some people are real 'face' people - your energy/attention goes straight to their face... Try noticing this in people it's facinating... when someone is on drugs or is drunk your attention focuses on them in a certain way and more often than not you can tell there's something odd. So that's how people can affect you energetically - the way to counteract that and stay vulnerable and give them the opportunity to be vulnerable is to pay attention to all of them - or at least a part of them that's starved of attention! It's very difficult at first because we all have our own habitual places of attention in our own bodies... once we get out of ourselves and pay attention to someone in total, something subtle but very interesting happens. try it.

 

cool. yeah everything is energy. if you can describe it, it's energy ('tonal' in the words of don juan.... as opposed to the opposite of it (nagual) which could be emptiness but isn't because we can describe that?)

 

I think it was in the ethics thread that I wrote about my new outlook on my role in terms of interaction with others... My aim is to change the direction of people's awareness... if successfull (ie through interacting with me someone focuses their attention in a different way) it forces people into a playfull vulnerability. This can be the smallest of things... eg I convinced one of my rigid friends to wear a hat on a night out... it completely changed him - he was far more relaxed, vulnerable, people gravitated towards him and he didn't freak in response. All that from wearing a hat! Part of it imo is that his habitual focus of attention changed... and people's resonse (in terms of the direction of their attention to him) changed too which caused a subtle change that rippled out, with a very obvious result.

 

nice story.

you are doing some nice things, but you yourself really do come first and foremost..... there is no other way.

 

cannot give what you don't have. cannot take someone somewhere you haven't been. can't help someone if you haven't helped yourself. cannot love someone if you don't love yourself.

 

self really is first.

Edited April 28, 2006 by neimad

[cloud recluse]

After what Sean wrote I don't think I was understanding narcissim correctly. I was thinking it was more like a snob, which I don't think is a diagnosable medical disorder

 

From what you guys are saying it's much more serious and I don't know anyone like that(That I am aware of).

Snobbery is not yet a disorder,but the enthusiasm of the psychiatric profession for pathologizing as much behaviour as possible will probably catch up to it,given enough time Actually,I have no problem with the pride of the accomplished & the certainty of the self-directed,even when a bit of snobbery is thrown in.Given a choice between the fearfully meek & the confidently assertive,Ill associate with the latter.

[cloud recluse]

.... but you yourself really do come first and foremost..... there is no other way.

 

cannot give what you don't have. cannot take someone somewhere you haven't been. can't help someone if you haven't helped yourself. cannot love someone if you don't love yourself.

 

self really is first.

 

True up too a point.Self certainly has to be consolidated,so it can then be "forgotten" & you can get INTO life.If self-consolidation fails,then you have self-obsession,& that doesnt take you anywhere!You only have to think about self when it needs attention,fine-tuning as it were.Once youve tuned the cars engine,you can forget about it & get into travelling.Otherwise,you get trapped in the claustrophobic confines of your self-image,suffocating.What may have started as necessary self-work becomes endless self analysis & an inability to connect with anyone else.

 

Self is a great game,a useful tool,but never an end in itSelf Yours Selfishly,Cloud.

Edited May 1, 2006 by cloud recluse

[neimad]

True up too a point.Self certainly has to be consolidated,so it can then be "forgotten" & you can get INTO life.If self-consolidation fails,then you have self-obsession,& that doesnt take you anywhere!You only have to think about self when it needs attention,fine-tuning as it were.Once youve tuned the cars engine,you can forget about & get into travelling.Otherwise,you get trapped in the claustrophobic confines of your self-image,suffocating.What may have started as necessary self-work becomes endless self analysis & an inability to connect with anyone else.

 

Self is a great game,a useful tool,but never an end in itSelf Yours Selfishly,Cloud.

 

sure....

because once you have cultivated self properly, i think one realises that ALL IS SELF

 

anyways is anyone on here up to the point where they feel they no longer have to do any self work?

 

i certainly aint.... i'm more involved with myself than ever, but it's not how it sounds.... rather the more i become involved with myself, the kinder, more compassionate and understanding i become towards others.

 

in other words, i continue to become a "better person" whatever that might mean....

[cloud recluse]

Actually,for a really GREAT discussion on self-focus,other -focus & narcissism,check out any of MARK EPSTEINs books,particularly GOING ON BEING.He points out ego(in the western psychological sense) is not a single phase that you grow into & then transcend,but is rather a 'tool' to be employed at appropriate stages & then dropped until needed again.I dont think he uses those terms exactly,but thats the gist of it.Hes a buddhist as well as psychotherapist,but his stuff leaves a Daoist taste in my mouth (and by 'stuff' I am referring to his book,nothing else )

 

 

sure....

because once you have cultivated self properly, i think one realises that ALL IS SELF

 

anyways is anyone on here up to the point where they feel they no longer have to do any self work?

 

i certainly aint.... i'm more involved with myself than ever, but it's not how it sounds.... rather the more i become involved with myself, the kinder, more compassionate and understanding i become towards others.

 

in other words, i continue to become a "better person" whatever that might mean....

 

Neimad,I concur(am I using pompous language or what?! ).Those moments when Ive let go of small self are those moments when self expands,is revealed as Big Self.I let go of personal self-focus & everything else just rushes in AS Self.As that recedes,I then may have to tinker with small self to be more congruent with this new truth,& that is necessary self-involvement,but this tinkering doesnt go on 24/7.I suppose thats what Im trying to get across.In any single day I can oscillate between small & big Self as necessary,giving each their due.Its not like I finish small self & graduate to big,the two are inextricable.

 

Regards,Cloud.

Edited April 28, 2006 by cloud recluse