Magitek

Physical methods for circulating the microcosmic orbit

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Many Internal martial arts and moving qigong methods, including Tai Ji and others will automatically set the orbit going. The orbit is a natural occurence in all people. Do not force energy ever... While the sitting orbit is integral to many systems, it is not necessary to do a sitting meditation to get the orbit going. Visualization is a part of many systems of nei kung so visualization is not a problem. The problem is when someone tries to FORCE energy movement through vizualization or breath. Many newbies (especially if they are trying to learn from a book) will force the energy... But I do agree that if one is interested in doing the microcosmic orbit, I would seek out a qualified teacher. I would also agree that it is best to FIRST learn a physical Qigong form or internal martial art from a qualified teacher before starting any advanced sitting Nei Kung method like the orbit. Do not try and learn any advanced Nei Kung method by yourself from a book or a video. Find a teacher.... Most of the questions newbies ask on this forum can easily be answered if you have a teacher....

 

Hello,

 

New Dawn Fades mentioned in some old posts how there are physical methods to run the microcosmic orbits that DON'T RELY ON VISUALISATION.

 

I know some people believe visualisation is harmful but perhaps at a later stage it is useful. I do not think I am there yet....

 

It seems zhan zhuang is becoming popular here and someone even made a post on horse stance so I'm sure this topic would interest you all!

 

I know JJ Semple awakened the kundalini safely by physical methods alone (no visualising white skeletons lol) he seems to think visualising the energy moving up .etc is dangerous... His awakening sounded very smooth compared to that of Glenn Morris (with all respects to him) for instance. JJ Semple only focused on the breathing (buddha/baby/belly whatever you may call it!) and my old logical conclusion that this style of breathing WAS the orbit. However nowadays I hate to make any logical premises so I just prefer to ask questions....

 

Cheers.

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Hello,

 

New Dawn Fades mentioned in some old posts how there are physical methods to run the microcosmic orbits that DON'T RELY ON VISUALISATION.

 

I know some people believe visualisation is harmful but perhaps at a later stage it is useful. I do not think I am there yet....

 

It seems zhan zhuang is becoming popular here and someone even made a post on horse stance so I'm sure this topic would interest you all!

 

I know JJ Semple awakened the kundalini safely by physical methods alone (no visualising white skeletons lol) he seems to think visualising the energy moving up .etc is dangerous... His awakening sounded very smooth compared to that of Glenn Morris (with all respects to him) for instance. JJ Semple only focused on the breathing (buddha/baby/belly whatever you may call it!) and my old logical conclusion that this style of breathing WAS the orbit. However nowadays I hate to make any logical premises so I just prefer to ask questions....

 

Cheers.

 

I lost a link yesterday to a site that featured what points are supposed to be pressed in order to clear or get over unwholesome emotions by activating organs, conception vessel, and governing vessel.

 

The pressure points were all over the outside the eyes, bridge of nose, over the top lip, under the bottom lip, all over the underside of the collar bone, and somewhere under the arms.

 

It maybe as simple as washing the face, exercise, and meditation.

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Hello,

 

New Dawn Fades mentioned in some old posts how there are physical methods to run the microcosmic orbits that DON'T RELY ON VISUALISATION.

 

I know some people believe visualisation is harmful but perhaps at a later stage it is useful. I do not think I am there yet....

 

It seems zhan zhuang is becoming popular here and someone even made a post on horse stance so I'm sure this topic would interest you all!

 

I know JJ Semple awakened the kundalini safely by physical methods alone (no visualising white skeletons lol) he seems to think visualising the energy moving up .etc is dangerous... His awakening sounded very smooth compared to that of Glenn Morris (with all respects to him) for instance. JJ Semple only focused on the breathing (buddha/baby/belly whatever you may call it!) and my old logical conclusion that this style of breathing WAS the orbit. However nowadays I hate to make any logical premises so I just prefer to ask questions....

 

Cheers.

 

Hello Magitek,

 

I would like to share some of my limited understanding:

 

Spring Forest Gong has 7 active exercises which can be used to open the Microcosmic Orbit

Michael Winn has another set of 7 exercises to open Chi flow in the Microcosmic Orbit

 

I would also like to suggest to learn this from our friend Dao Zhen:

 

 

Thank you again Jesse. Beautifully done!

 

Your Tao Buddy.

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Well I read in alchemicaltaoism.com that one should purify the energy going up the back channel by first drawing energy from the top of the head and taking it down the entire front channel through the chakras before orbiting up the back. Or probably can start at the dan-tian, and take it up to the head and then back down to complete the orbit as normal.

 

I'm pretty sure one can also make a chi kung or nei kung exercises that incorporates movement to guide this energy down and up.

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Well I read in alchemicaltaoism.com that one should purify the energy going up the back channel by first drawing energy from the top of the head and taking it down the entire front channel through the chakras before orbiting up the back. Or probably can start at the dan-tian, and take it up to the head and then back down to complete the orbit as normal.

 

I'm pretty sure one can also make a chi kung or nei kung exercises that incorporates movement to guide this energy down and up.

 

Please don't take this to heart Non but, this is the kind of advice 5Elements was warning against. Your info is sort of, almost right in some ways, or not. It's just enough to get someone heading off onto a track that'll lead them astray, or not. First thing to do is, drop all reference to Chakras. These things are complicated enough without mixing and matching conflicting disciplines and philosophies.

 

My take - the MCO is a built-in feature in virtually all Qigong routines, it's always one of the goals. We inhale, we exhale, we lift up, we settle down, Renmai and Dumai breathe in concert with us and our movements. You don't really have to get into heavy alchemical meditation to strengthen it. Just keep yourself healthy at first, learn a well-established routine that appeals to you, learn to relax while practicing, enjoy it and take your time.

 

Why do so many people want to go straight into advanced alchemical practice? In the old days, the MCO wouldn't even be mentioned superficially until a high level of rudimentary development had been acheived.

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The main cause of most blockages is diet. Eating a truly healthy diet will be the biggest contributor to opening a body up.

 

It's a mistake to separate meditation, qigong, martial arts for health, and martial arts for combat. These are supposed to be simultaneous. A good teacher and a good TCM doctor will fix a body up well.

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Scroll down for the Level 1 sitting meditation "small universe" exercise -- this is an excellent tool to open up the channels:

 

http://www.springforestqigong.com/instructional_tools.htm

 

Hello,

 

New Dawn Fades mentioned in some old posts how there are physical methods to run the microcosmic orbits that DON'T RELY ON VISUALISATION.

 

I know some people believe visualisation is harmful but perhaps at a later stage it is useful. I do not think I am there yet....

 

It seems zhan zhuang is becoming popular here and someone even made a post on horse stance so I'm sure this topic would interest you all!

 

I know JJ Semple awakened the kundalini safely by physical methods alone (no visualising white skeletons lol) he seems to think visualising the energy moving up .etc is dangerous... His awakening sounded very smooth compared to that of Glenn Morris (with all respects to him) for instance. JJ Semple only focused on the breathing (buddha/baby/belly whatever you may call it!) and my old logical conclusion that this style of breathing WAS the orbit. However nowadays I hate to make any logical premises so I just prefer to ask questions....

 

Cheers.

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From Dao Zhen:

 

*****

Tao Yoga or DaoYin exercises were an ancient precursor of Qigong, specifically the variety sometimes known as Neigong, and were practiced in Chinese Taoist monasteries for health and spiritual cultivation in ancient times.

 

Become one with Heaven & Earth......

 

We cultivate the Healing Energy of Earth....

 

We cultivate the Healing Energy of Heaven.

 

We become one with Heaven & Earth.....

 

~This set is composed of three aspects~

 

1. Opening with Standing Meditation.

 

2. Middle section of movement -

Gathering Heaven and Earthly Energy and merging and harmonizing with Heaven and Earth....

 

3. Closing with standing meditation; then a gathering of Qi in the Lower Dantian.

 

Please note that in actual practice, please perform this entire set for 45 min to 90 min.

 

Standing - 5-15 min

 

Motion - 15-30 min

 

Standing (closing) - 5-15 min

 

The combination of Stillness and Motion create a very balanced and healthy combination of energy and are important.

 

When in the standing posture, please begin with a connection from the soles of the feet to the earth; feel as if slight roots connect the feet to the earth - Please do not imagine, or visualize.

 

Then begin to connect the crown of the head with the sky above - feel as if the crown is connected with a slight string pulling from above.

 

Allow the spine to elongate...

 

Let the teeth lightly touch, mouth closed, tongue connecting to the upper pallet, breathing in and out gently from the nose.

 

Allow the 'inner vision' to connect to the Lower Dantian.

 

The Lower Dantian (Tan Tien) is located in the empty space below the navel in the middle place between the kidney and navel -- a sphere of around 3.8 cm.

 

Let the inner vision gaze upon that place.

 

As you gaze, have a very nurturing or caring intention.

 

Do not gaze internally with force, tension, or strength - this will cause trouble internally -

 

Let golden virtue begin to grow within, releasing all negative qualities and deeply relaxing the body.

 

Deeply relax, and let all things drop away naturally....

 

While standing, draw the in breath deeply to the lower Dantian, counting 1/2/3/4, then pause and exhale from the lower Dantian, counting 1/2/3/4...

 

Allow the inhalation and exhalation to be balanced and in harmony...

 

It is important to gain a complete balance and union of the inhalation and exhalation...

 

After some time, forget the breathing.

 

Continue standing.....

 

Allow yourself to become one with the surrounding nature.

 

Let virtue fill your heart, and gain union with all of heaven and earth as you stand.

 

Breathe Deeply....

 

After some time of silent standing, then begin to enter the movement phase of the practice.

 

During the movement practice, let the movements flow from one to another.....

 

As you come down, allow all the Healing Force of Nature and the Universe shower down.....

 

After each round of movement, allow the 'inside' to feel more and more clean.....

 

Become more and more Pure.....

 

After some time of the movement practice, allow yourself to go back to silent standing meditation.

 

Then after the standing, perform the closing and gathering of Qi for some time.

 

After this, when it feels that all has settled and returned to the Lower Dantian, please rub the face with the palms, comb the fingers through the hair to stimulate the scalp, and gently pat the body to help make the transition from the deep meditation to walking.

 

~A note on breathing~

 

Do not hold the breath when doing these exercises.

 

Breath deeply and full and draw the inhalation and exhalation from the Dan Tian or lower abdomen.

 

Inhale and exhale from the nose.

 

During the movement practice, generally you can inhale as you rise up, and exahale as you bend down - generally.

 

Let it all be natural...

 

When you practice, please feel a connection from the feet to the earth, as if rooted. Please also feel a connection from the crown of the head to the sky, as if suspended by a string.

 

Be sure to let the tongue touch the hard pallet of the mouth, and the teeth are lightly closed.

 

Breath in and out gently through the nose.

 

~A note on closing at the end of the exercise~

 

Allow a feeling of all things settling in to the Lower Dantian and feel very grounded and centered.

 

Let all things return to and settle to the Lower Dantian.

 

Then just stand for some time, and let all become harmony, and do not think or focus to anything.

 

You may massage the face, and gently pat the body before moving on after finishing the exercise...

 

Let the Heart be pure and clean during all practice.....

 

For more information, please visit:

http://www.taoyoga.jp

*****

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Hey effi - I don't want to sound all pedantic or argumentative, because I'm not, but, virtually every line in that text would need a full paragraph if not a few pages of further explanation to ensure that the student is genuinely understanding what's being asked. Just one example:

 

When you practice, please feel a connection from the feet to the earth, as if rooted. Please also feel a connection from the crown of the head to the sky, as if suspended by a string.

 

This is very common, you read it all the time, not only in Qigong practice. And there's nothing "wrong" with it in itself, however, I know from experience that a large percentage of people who do this based solely on what they read here, are going to do it wrong. They're not going to bring Baihui to the middle, which is the goal of the movement; they're going to lift the chin upward, "aiming" Baihui toward the back and pinching the neck vertebrae closed, a very unfortunate mistake that can lead to a host of problems, on various levels.

 

Even telling people to lay the hands on the abdomen will get you all kinds of results. I've had to have people lift up their shirts and stick their finger literally in the navel, and massage vigorously, just to get them to remember where it is, so they can actually place their hands below it.

 

Also, the text doesn't go to the original point of the thread of how to acheive the MCO specifically without visualization. About half of of the description involves abstract imagery. "Allow the 'inner vision' to connect to the Lower Dantian", for example. Even 'inner vision' is put in quotes because it's more of an abstract concept than a specific physical action. There are ways to do the same thing without imagery but it would take a lot of writing to describe them, and the risk that they won't be performed correctly is very high.

 

The text you quoted is fine, but it's more like a list of reminders a teacher might distribute to his or her students, people who've trained with him or her and know the background and, most importantly, have had their mistakes gently corrected so that they can get the most out of the exercise while limiting the risks.

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being generally specific, emptiness and thought are enough to initiate the mco from sung, complete emtiness, you must stand until no thought, then stand until body is thought, then stand until thought is body, then your movement and thought is one. since thought and movement are no longer seperate, concept should yeild a governing force supporting dissolution of stress into channels suited for work. observing when the body naturally circulating is also paramount

 

 

 

how to acheive the MCO specifically without visualization. About half of of the description involves abstract imagery. "Allow the 'inner vision' to connect to the Lower Dantian",

 

when the medium is the message, sometimes it fails to transmit the essense

 

put yourself in a position yo observe the dan tien doing a small amount of work for a long period of time,from multiple directions, and your "inner vision" will connect with precisely that which is occuring; that which imagination can only suggest, but which awareness reveals through direct experience.

 

This is why we spend time in wuji, this is why the whole lot is executed from wuji, this is why wuji is mysterious when your 3 inches above ground, and harmonizing when your 3 inches under it.

Edited by Spectrum

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Hey effi - I don't want to sound all pedantic or argumentative, because I'm not, but, virtually every line in that text would need a full paragraph if not a few pages of further explanation to ensure that the student is genuinely understanding what's being asked. Just one example:

There is also no mention of what exactly the movements are...

After some time of silent standing, then begin to enter the movement phase of the practice.

 

During the movement practice, let the movements flow from one to another.....

 

As you come down, allow all the Healing Force of Nature and the Universe shower down.

I agree that without actual instruction this kind of post can be deceiving. Unfortunately alot of newbies on this forum will try to copy what is written rather than use it as an encouragement to find real instruction...

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being generally specific, emptiness and thought are enough to initiate the mco from sung, complete emtiness, you must stand until no thought, then stand until body is thought, then stand until thought is body, then your movement and thought is one. since thought and movement are no longer seperate, concept should yeild a governing force supporting dissolution of stress into channels suited for work. observing when the body naturally circulating is also paramount

when the medium is the message, sometimes it fails to transmit the essense

 

put yourself in a position yo observe the dan tien doing a small amount of work for a long period of time,from multiple directions, and your "inner vision" will connect with precisely that which is occuring; that which imagination can only suggest, but which awareness reveals through direct experience.

 

This is why we spend time in wuji, this is why the whole lot is executed from wuji, this is why wuji is mysterious when your 3 inches above ground, and harmonizing when your 3 inches under it.

 

Thank you for sharing this. From this, I understand more about the standing meditation. May I ou ask you to kindly elaborate some of the point.

 

1. In the first sentence you use "sung". What is sung?

 

2. Can you explain abit more about "then stand until body is thought, then stand until thought is body"?

 

3. What does it mean by "your 3 inches above ground" and "your 3 inches under it"

 

Kindest regards,

 

Your Tao Buddy.

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There is also no mention of what exactly the movements are...

 

Movements can be easily noticed if you have some basic understanding about Qigong. May I say it all similar in many Qigong systems.

 

I agree that without actual instruction this kind of post can be deceiving. Unfortunately alot of newbies on this forum will try to copy what is written rather than use it as an encouragement to find real instruction...

 

May I have some questions for you:

 

We are all newbie, aren't we? That is why we need to keep our beginner mind, try to discorver new things. As soon as the words "expert", "guru", "master" come to our mind we kind of lose our abilities to learn.

 

If leaning from DVD and books are not good enough why do you think people are still writing books, making DVDs?

 

How to you think our great Western teachers learnt from Chinese, Indian masters when they dont speak the same language?

 

I think the problem is that we dont practising our common sense enough.

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I agree with you all.

 

The text and exercise were contributed by Dao Zhen. It was not I who wrote it.

 

To me that text is special, because it explains things in a certain way, a layered way.

 

For example. If we take the concept of "Love". U can teach a child what love is on a very basic level by telling them how they love their favorite blankey. In the years later, you may explain it through the love for a sibling, further as time passes through the connection with their first partner, marriage, soul mates, love for the earth, the human race, the Tao, etc.

 

I think a practice can be explained many times in different ways. Every time a student reaches a new level they get a deeper understanding of the same concept, to the point where their INITIAL understanding of it seems galaxies away.

 

I know that whole books can be dedicated to mere lines of that text, but i also think that it will be of use to both the beginner AND the novice in it's own aspects which they may not quite understand yet consciously, while their subconscious may already be putting it's words into mental and physical manifestation that help advance the practice.

 

It certainly changed a lot for me and my mental approach to specific things.

 

As to there not being a mention of WHAT exactly the movements are, the video link before the text aught to speak for itself:

 

You just need to make the session a little longer as you know youtube videos have a limit.

 

I know the post may not help ALL, but may help SOME and the latter is just as important :P

 

Effi : )

 

:lol:

Edited by effilang

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To me that text is special in a way because it explains things in a certain way.

:lol:

 

Absolutely, and DaoZhen is wonderful :) I knew the video and the text before you posted it. The only point *I* was making was that it didn't directly address Magitek's request. And then I embellished a little, lol. But, for sure, anything that helps make "it click", and that could mean 1,000 different formulations and reformulations of the same instruction until 1,000 people understand it, is good. IM not always so HO.

 

I don't have anything against visualization or imagery in Qogong, either. My reply didn't seem to be implying that, did it? Some of us understand things better in that way, and some of us don't.

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Movements can be easily noticed if you have some basic understanding about Qigong. May I say it all similar in many Qigong systems.

Well, I have a basic understanding of Qigong and I don't know what the movements are just from reading the text. If you can intuit them, more power to you. That text was originally connected to a visual about a practice and it was assumed the reader had already been taught the practice by someone. It was not initially meant to just be read by a complete newbie to the practice. IME, certain qigong practices have very specific rules to the movement and if you don't do them properly, you can harm yourself. I'm talking from experience....

May I have some questions for you:

 

We are all newbie, aren't we? That is why we need to keep our beginner mind, try to discorver new things. As soon as the words "expert", "guru", "master" come to our mind we kind of lose our abilities to learn.

 

If leaning from DVD and books are not good enough why do you think people are still writing books, making DVDs?

 

How to you think our great Western teachers learnt from Chinese, Indian masters when they dont speak the same language?

 

I think the problem is that we dont practising our common sense enough.

 

I read as many books as anyone. I also have lots of DVD's. I sell my own instructional DVDs. They are great and can be excellent introductions. I can learn alot about my own practices by watching DVD's. But I also have been trained for many years by qualified instructors so I have a frame of reference to interpret what I am watching and reading... Books and DVD's IME should not be an end in themselves. I also only use books and DVDs as supplemental introductions, I don't use them as my entire training... Yes, we are all beginners and newbies, including myself. My apologies if I have offended you or if you feel I have implied you are inferior in any way. My only desire is to help. IME, for those truly interested in learning Taoist energy techniques a teacher is essential. Without a teacher, IME, one can only go so far... If your experience turns out different than mine, I shall seek you out as a teacher.....

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2. Can you explain abit more about "then stand until body is thought, then stand until thought is body"?

 

it is a process of dissolving percieved dualities

 

first you think it hurts, then after a while you feelfind a way around it, then when you feel the same hurt, instead of thinking inside the box, you instantly find a way out; thought dissolves into the common sense of the body, you are not "objectively" thinking about it, rather, you are consciously working towards a resolution to the sensations of pain, and reprogramming the body to accept the sensations of"effort" as a guide post towards further progress.

 

3. What does it mean by "your 3 inches above ground" and "your 3 inches under it"

 

normal posture the curvature is s shaped and the center of gravity is high center'd: when you sink into wuji the center of gravity sinks with it, the spine elongates, the body is readi to resv/send energy : various grades and frequencies of opening/closing occur on a daily/weekly/montly/yearly cycle w/o practice, with practice, the whole lot is summed up.

Edited by Spectrum

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Spectrum,

 

Thank you for your sharing. I really appreciate it.

 

fiveelementtao,

 

I am sorry if I have offended you in anyway.

 

I think it is rather easy to follow the movements of the Heaven and Earth Gong set by waching the youtube vid (performed by Dao Zhen) with a basic understanding of Qigong. I found it a very good exercise. It has many core movements, which are introduced in other systems. I wonder if you have watch the vid?

 

I am nowhere near your level. Thank you for being modest, What I meant was that we need to spend more time on practice whatever system, which is available to us and good results will follow.

 

I also prefer some direct answers to the asked questions.

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You're welcome. A pleasure to answer acall. Whhy change anything unless chance eluded or skill concluded a craftsmanship hands are best suited at his task.

 

1. In the first sentence you use "sung". What is sung?

 

Sung aka Song: This is a state of mind body equalibrium experienced after a period of time in which the mind quiets and the body is activly sending recving information from inside and outside uninhibited by objectified thought; this is probably what is known in the west as "the zone"; rickson describes his process as "flow with the go"; wondering what flows go cross reference spectral directory ^ who has ever lost themselves in a movement has felt that identification process and wanted to reexperienc the meditation of that movement, again, and I tell you that freshness is alive and well; you are no longer "thinking about things" ... rather there is no thought.... U r th tht, you are being, you are the action, not just any thought, none: thought and action are synonymis: if any... its rather an "identification with all things" .feeling completly comfortable at peace listening to the common centers identfying communicating towards the edge.. "feeling it out", become a part of, rather than dissecting things further intellectually, you have completely let go and are presently readi in the right now to accept what is right (t)here.

 

 

when more philosophical fighters than me have said "there is no opponent" they are perhaps eluding to their experience of looking an opponent in the eye and experiencing peace instead of duress; training yeilds a differnt set of nerve impulses, I'd venture to say they resolved the conflict within themselves that seperates, rather they identify with, and overcome first, saving the win for last.

 

^^^marker for further editing

Edited by Spectrum

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Although still a beginner in many respects, I've been practicing now for 2 years and figured I would add my 2 cents...

 

In regards to visualization and mental force as a means to work with energy and the orbit, it's best to think of them as the initial ignition that gets an engine going. Only a gentle turn of the key is necessary, rather than gunning it. Another analogy is that of training a large, dangerous animal wherein you have to gently and respectfully coax them to do something, rather than yanking on their chain every second and expecting them to comply.

 

Blunt mental force will move chi, but only the lowest and weakest level of chi. Energy is infinitely older and wiser than your ego, as is your body, which is a microcosm of the infinite. It's best to approach them with awe and reverence, you ASK the energy to help you rather than forcing it.

 

That has been my experience at least.

Edited by Enishi
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