hagar

Holosync, brain stimulation and Jing

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My lord!

 

If I could know where this thread were going...

 

I apologize for not being able to comment to all your thoughtful answers, but they are much appreciated.

 

To the little detour of men, women, emotions and desire, I can only say what I personally experience.

I find men way more emotionally sensitive than women.

 

Just to go back to your comments, what I do perceive is that the brain is placed under stress. And that consumes energy to cope with this stimuli. The brain is basically fueled by the essential water flowing up the spinal column. If you physically create new neural pathways between the hemispheres, you are by definition creating out of your Jing supply. And yes, the Jing is not one thing. Prenatal, postnatal, yet through practice you sense what the essential water is.

 

As a consequence I'll recon that restraining any leakage of Jing might prevent any detrimental effects of consuming fuel to cope with the "stress" of the technology. So I'm going on a 100 day outing.

Would be interesting to hear if anyone had any thoughts on that.

 

One thing I do wonder is if the information "added" by the tapes in any way disrupts the flow of the transmission in my core practice, and that any "progress" I have made is lost energetically, like when you update iTunes, you lose your tracks, if you are not careful.

 

As Craig said, in the end, you need to fly unsupported. I only hope that this technology can be a little extra flight attendant that keeps me company when I go into the radio shadow on the dark side of the moon.

 

h

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I tested out Holosync maybe 6 months ago -- my coworker copied the c.d. as he was using it. Immediately I experienced the brain synchronization but the power was low. In other words just by using my own conscious focus -- "flexing the pineal gland" as I call it -- I could over-ride the Holosync power. Still for a beginner it would be excellent and the whole "astral travel" claims of holosync and remote viewing -- well that's in a special training environment after weeks, even years of practice, etc. So how much is just the holosync and how much is the actual concentration skills from practice -- my guess is more of the latter. Robert Monroe states that when he did his astral travel OBE he had to focus on his STOMACH to build up the energy. Anyone not familiar with the lower tan tien and jing would not even realize the central importance of Monroe relying on the stomach -- he calls it something like "rolling" out of his body. So he had to build up that jing energy probably just from intense mental curiosity about spirituality, etc.

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I tested out Holosync maybe 6 months ago -- my coworker copied the c.d. as he was using it. Immediately I experienced the brain synchronization but the power was low. In other words just by using my own conscious focus -- "flexing the pineal gland" as I call it -- I could over-ride the Holosync power. Still for a beginner it would be excellent and the whole "astral travel" claims of holosync and remote viewing -- well that's in a special training environment after weeks, even years of practice, etc. So how much is just the holosync and how much is the actual concentration skills from practice -- my guess is more of the latter. Robert Monroe states that when he did his astral travel OBE he had to focus on his STOMACH to build up the energy. Anyone not familiar with the lower tan tien and jing would not even realize the central importance of Monroe relying on the stomach -- he calls it something like "rolling" out of his body. So he had to build up that jing energy probably just from intense mental curiosity about spirituality, etc.

 

In reading your comment, Drew, I guess there's a whole universe in there/out there to explore. Where did Holosync claim to send you off into Astral travels?

 

I for one have no aspirations to become a spiritual astronaut, and my metaphor was just that. As for your comment on the lower Dan Tian, I do think you are correct. It feels intuitively right to counter with focusing on the Hui yin, or the Dan Tian as to balance the effects of the sounds. For me, the sounds is like the effects of a chemical bath when you are used to washing in all other sorts of ways. It might do the trick to get to those hard-to-reach places, if you know what I mean.

 

I too feel I can override the effects of the tapes when I tune in to the cosmic transmission, and "flex the gland". :lol: yet there is stuff that really comes out emotionally and even physically (right now i feel like I have the flu, cold, shaky) from the sounds. Maybe I just have become aware of how, when I have reached a certain familiarity with my practice have gotten lazy, and are cutting corners with my stuff.

 

this is rambling.

 

h

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Little 1, Pietro, Rain...Thread Hi jackers.

 

"I used to use Holosync, the Centerpointe version"

 

"It was to me very effective to help quiet the mind and get to deeper states more quickly."

 

"Grow out of the training wheels and do your own work."

 

------------

"It is a statement about yin and yang and how we have the tendencies towards distinct weaknesses."

 

Great.

 

"Rain just being ironic?"

 

No. It was a hint to the essence of the above statement of yours.

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I never had a great amount of success with the Binaural Beats, but i've been having more success with the Isochronic Beats, i like not wearing headphone's when i'm meditating!

 

Totally agree with the training wheels analogy, gives you a taste, a glimpse, but i'd suspect you can go deeper when you take the training wheels off. Has anyone achieved 'enlightenment' with Binaural Beats?

 

Re the dreams, i've heard a number of sources say that when you cultivate high enough you don't dream (don't have any on hand to refer to though). I assume this is due to the sub-conscious realms becoming conscious.

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Here's more on Robert Monroe and astral travel -- holosync was developed by Monroe and is used at his Institute for astral travel and remote viewing.

 

http://www.manannan.net/occult/monroe.html

 

http://www.centerpointe.com/articles/articles_research.php

 

In reading your comment, Drew, I guess there's a whole universe in there/out there to explore. Where did Holosync claim to send you off into Astral travels?

 

I for one have no aspirations to become a spiritual astronaut, and my metaphor was just that. As for your comment on the lower Dan Tian, I do think you are correct. It feels intuitively right to counter with focusing on the Hui yin, or the Dan Tian as to balance the effects of the sounds. For me, the sounds is like the effects of a chemical bath when you are used to washing in all other sorts of ways. It might do the trick to get to those hard-to-reach places, if you know what I mean.

 

I too feel I can override the effects of the tapes when I tune in to the cosmic transmission, and "flex the gland". :lol: yet there is stuff that really comes out emotionally and even physically (right now i feel like I have the flu, cold, shaky) from the sounds. Maybe I just have become aware of how, when I have reached a certain familiarity with my practice have gotten lazy, and are cutting corners with my stuff.

 

this is rambling.

 

h

Edited by drewhempel

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I use Neuro- Programmer 2 a program that can be found here: Transparent Corp. This software enables you to create your own BWE tracks as well as hundreds of pre-made sessions. Holosync is a delta program that reduces the carrier tone as you progress. A good replicate can be found in the user's website called Deeper Than a Zen Monk, at a fraction of Centerpoit's price.

 

By using BWE, I can create a program for specific situations such as visualizations, chi kung, sleep induction, learning, inspiration or spiritual development. If a session gets boring, I can change the background sound or ambiance to brighten it up. I find it kind of fun creating sessions and tweaking them to fit my needs. Lately I have been experimenting with gamma entrainment with some interesting results.

 

Transparent offers a free 15 day trial on both NP2 and Mind Workstation. Anybody that is interested in BWE should take a look at these programs before spending money on finite, static CD's.

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Yes last night on http://coasttocoastam.com James Nestor was playing various meditation synchronization tracks covered in his new book on "how to get high: without drugs."

 

Anyway today I discovered this research on "spontaneous brain activity" versus brain synchronization -- and this has been a big issue for the various auditory brain technologies. Just like the use of magnets in qigong -- whenever there's a reliance on an external source then a disharmony can develop. Chunyi Lin states this as well -- how only the emptiness as pure consciousness can really heal and harmonize energy blockages.

 

But these new studies on spontaneous activity indicate that what was previously considered white noise random energy is now actually memorized yet "anti-correlated" neuron synchronization. When we learn the neurons synchronize but then it's more efficient to decouple the connection -- like specialization in production, while still maintaining the subconscious "spontaneous activity." Then the various separate connections (really linked on a deeper level) are reintegrated as synchronization at the higher gamma frequency....

 

So the question remains -- to what extent can ANY brain synchronization enable the new growth of spontaneous brain activity. It seems that the brain gets bored fast and then you have to constantly reset the beats and frequency, etc. -- and some auditory tech claims to use a chaotic quasi-random entrainment that changes for you.... my own frequency-amplitude model relies on nonwestern logic so that ANY application of western philosophy (both frequency and amplitude rely on symmetry -- not complementary opposites) is just a more limited application. Sure science can be a tool and provide a rough model, but like any "rational" philosophy -- even religion -- it's still a closed system with "external" control (language or math or technology).... here's my blog post from http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com

 

There's a new study out on "spontaneous brain activity" -- which apparently is NOT random white noise, as previously assumed to be the background brain activity -- yet is also constant even during sleep.

 

An earlier study on "spontaneous brain activity" states it causes external physical errors -- so that this innate, seemingly causeless, neuron firing actually inhibits precision in intentional action.

 

http://www.physorg.com/news174302671.html

 

But the new study states that when a person does a task requiring two areas of the brain, at first the two areas are weakly linked, then they SYNCHRONIZED while learning occurs, then once the activity is memorized -- the two areas DE-LINK with a new "anti-correlation" of synchronization -- aka a new

 

"spontaneous" activity.

 

So that what had been considered random white noise and what was then discovered to be not random yet also not intentional -- is NOW discovered to

 

make the brain function more efficiently overall by memorizing and then compartmentalizing the two synapses which have to be activated for a certain perceptional skill. It's FORDISM in the brain -- a la Taylor (and Lenin's embrace of Taylorism as well).

 

It's more efficient to reduce a task down to its parts and then perform each part separately but as a mass production while a later, "higher level" (gamma wave) total brain synchronization "spontaneously" connects the two brain neurons.

 

Here's the older "white noise" spontaneous brain activity research:

 

Spontaneous brain activity causes 'unforced errors'

 

* 16:31 09 October 2007 by Roxanne Khamsi (new Scientist)

 

The reason why even professional basketball and soccer players sometimes miss an easy shot may be partly explained by spontaneous fluctuations of electrical activity within the brain, a study suggests.

 

An experiment conducted by researchers at Washington University, in Missouri, US, found that fluctuations in brain activity caused volunteers to subconsciously exert slightly less physical force when pressing a button on cue. Crucially, this activity is independent of any external stimulus and does not appear related to attention or anticipation.

 

The scientists involved say it is the first direct evidence that internal instabilities - so-called "spontaneous brain activity" - may play an important role in the variability of human behaviour.

 

From the mid-1990s onwards, brain-scanning techniques have revealed variable brain activity that appears unrelated to external stimuli and occurs even when a person is asleep or anaesthetized.

 

But just how such fluctuations in neuronal firings may influence physical behaviour has proven different to untangle. To explore the issue, Michael Fox at Washington University and colleagues designed an experiment that involved monitoring volunteers' brains using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) as they performed a simple finger-tapping task.

Weaker response

 

The 17 volunteers were asked to push a button with their right hand as soon as they saw an on-screen prompt and the timing and force of each button press were recorded.

 

As expected, the brain scans revealed increased activity within the left motor cortex - the region associated with controlling movement of the right hand - shortly after each button-pushing prompt.

 

Fox and colleagues also monitored spontaneous activity within the left motor cortex by analysing its "mirror image" in the right motor cortex. This allowed them to see how spontaneous brain activity affected each button press, independent of the "task-related" brain signals.

 

The researchers found that volunteers pressed the button with about half the force, on average, if spontaneous activity occurred a few seconds before each prompt.

Missed goals

 

"This is the first clear evidence that [spontaneous brain activity] has some behavioural significance," says Rasmus Birn of the National Institute of Health in Maryland, US, who was not involved with the research.

 

Fox admits that it remains unclear how spontaneous activity in the motor cortex might cause people to tap their fingers more gently, but speculates that it could be because the activity fools the brain into thinking the finger has already moved partly towards the button.

 

He suggests that spontaneous brain activity may perhaps explain why people engaging in sports sometimes miss an apparently easy goal or basket, by altering the force with which they kick or throw a ball.

 

However, Birn cautions that, "it remains to be seen whether this result holds for more complex cognitive tasks or other brain regions or networks".

 

Journal reference: Neuron (DOI: 10.1016/j.neuron.2007.08.023)

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Drew

 

wowzers.

 

Need to digest that.

 

So, to condense what you're saying; Brain synchronization may be temporary, so as to go back to chaos after temporary order has been created to functionally master a task? So the Holosync - based theory of carrier frequency, i.e lowering the carrier frequency as to induce increased effect of the assymetrical stimulation of the hemispheres is bogus?

 

As I understand the theory behind this, atleast Centerpointe states that what happens is that neurons are created in the brain forcing the system into a higher state of coping (not necessarily symmetry). At this point, a lower carrier frequency induces more chaos than the brain structure can handle, forcing growth or "escape" to a higher level of functioning.

 

Actually, you may be right about the randomness and error within a highly skilled brain. Take really world class pianists (and I don't mean the technically great) have a way of inducing error, even randomness in their interpretation and performance to such a degree, that the greatest performances are full of "errors" yet are singular and potent interpretations of the piece they are playing.

 

But I digress.

 

Basically, what got me into this mess was that I experience something that surgically targets unconscuious "mental" and emotive chi blocks. And its the lazy way to get these up and into the light. Stuff that I myself cannot yet really target on a consistent basis.

 

So how does the effect on emotional "stuff" of these sounds relate to what you're saying?

 

h

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Eagle Shen:

 

Interesting.

 

If I heard someone tell me they got enlightened by using Holosync, I would take that as a sure sign that they are not.

 

h

 

Drew

 

wowzers.

 

Need to digest that.

 

So, to condense what you're saying; Brain synchronization may be temporary, so as to go back to chaos after temporary order has been created to functionally master a task? So the Holosync - based theory of carrier frequency, i.e lowering the carrier frequency as to induce increased effect of the assymetrical stimulation of the hemispheres is bogus?

 

As I understand the theory behind this, atleast Centerpointe states that what happens is that neurons are created in the brain forcing the system into a higher state of coping (not necessarily symmetry). At this point, a lower carrier frequency induces more chaos than the brain structure can handle, forcing growth or "escape" to a higher level of functioning.

 

Actually, you may be right about the randomness and error within a highly skilled brain. Take really world class pianists (and I don't mean the technically great) have a way of inducing error, even randomness in their interpretation and performance to such a degree, that the greatest performances are full of "errors" yet are singular and potent interpretations of the piece they are playing.

 

But I digress.

 

Basically, what got me into this mess was that I experience something that surgically targets unconscuious "mental" and emotive chi blocks. And its the lazy way to get these up and into the light. Stuff that I myself cannot yet really target on a consistent basis.

 

So how does the effect on emotional "stuff" of these sounds relate to what you're saying?

 

h

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hagar

 

i'm not sure you mentioned, why exactly would you want to use the holosync?

 

zuo ming-dao said he used robert bruce's stuff with good succes.

still he seems a bit reluctant on details, but it surely got me interested. i'm interested in biologically replicating the procedure...

i still am not sure if the posibility of breaking 'the seal between worlds' is a matter of personal effort, or it has to come hand in hand with heaven's say so

 

thoughts?

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Yes last night on http://coasttocoastam.com James Nestor was playing various meditation synchronization tracks covered in his new book on "how to get high: without drugs."

 

Anyway today I discovered this research on "spontaneous brain activity" versus brain synchronization -- and this has been a big issue for the various auditory brain technologies. Just like the use of magnets in qigong -- whenever there's a reliance on an external source then a disharmony can develop. Chunyi Lin states this as well -- how only the emptiness as pure consciousness can really heal and harmonize energy blockages.

 

But these new studies on spontaneous activity indicate that what was previously considered white noise random energy is now actually memorized yet "anti-correlated" neuron synchronization. When we learn the neurons synchronize but then it's more efficient to decouple the connection -- like specialization in production, while still maintaining the subconscious "spontaneous activity." Then the various separate connections (really linked on a deeper level) are reintegrated as synchronization at the higher gamma frequency....

 

So the question remains -- to what extent can ANY brain synchronization enable the new growth of spontaneous brain activity. It seems that the brain gets bored fast and then you have to constantly reset the beats and frequency, etc. -- and some auditory tech claims to use a chaotic quasi-random entrainment that changes for you.... my own frequency-amplitude model relies on nonwestern logic so that ANY application of western philosophy (both frequency and amplitude rely on symmetry -- not complementary opposites) is just a more limited application. Sure science can be a tool and provide a rough model, but like any "rational" philosophy -- even religion -- it's still a closed system with "external" control (language or math or technology).... here's my blog post from http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com

 

There's a new study out on "spontaneous brain activity" -- which apparently is NOT random white noise, as previously assumed to be the background brain activity -- yet is also constant even during sleep.

 

An earlier study on "spontaneous brain activity" states it causes external physical errors -- so that this innate, seemingly causeless, neuron firing actually inhibits precision in intentional action.

 

http://www.physorg.com/news174302671.html

 

But the new study states that when a person does a task requiring two areas of the brain, at first the two areas are weakly linked, then they SYNCHRONIZED while learning occurs, then once the activity is memorized -- the two areas DE-LINK with a new "anti-correlation" of synchronization -- aka a new

 

"spontaneous" activity.

 

So that what had been considered random white noise and what was then discovered to be not random yet also not intentional -- is NOW discovered to

 

make the brain function more efficiently overall by memorizing and then compartmentalizing the two synapses which have to be activated for a certain perceptional skill. It's FORDISM in the brain -- a la Taylor (and Lenin's embrace of Taylorism as well).

 

It's more efficient to reduce a task down to its parts and then perform each part separately but as a mass production while a later, "higher level" (gamma wave) total brain synchronization "spontaneously" connects the two brain neurons.

 

Here's the older "white noise" spontaneous brain activity research:

 

Spontaneous brain activity causes 'unforced errors'

 

* 16:31 09 October 2007 by Roxanne Khamsi (new Scientist)

 

The reason why even professional basketball and soccer players sometimes miss an easy shot may be partly explained by spontaneous fluctuations of electrical activity within the brain, a study suggests.

 

An experiment conducted by researchers at Washington University, in Missouri, US, found that fluctuations in brain activity caused volunteers to subconsciously exert slightly less physical force when pressing a button on cue. Crucially, this activity is independent of any external stimulus and does not appear related to attention or anticipation.

 

The scientists involved say it is the first direct evidence that internal instabilities - so-called "spontaneous brain activity" - may play an important role in the variability of human behaviour.

 

From the mid-1990s onwards, brain-scanning techniques have revealed variable brain activity that appears unrelated to external stimuli and occurs even when a person is asleep or anaesthetized.

 

But just how such fluctuations in neuronal firings may influence physical behaviour has proven different to untangle. To explore the issue, Michael Fox at Washington University and colleagues designed an experiment that involved monitoring volunteers' brains using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) as they performed a simple finger-tapping task.

Weaker response

 

The 17 volunteers were asked to push a button with their right hand as soon as they saw an on-screen prompt and the timing and force of each button press were recorded.

 

As expected, the brain scans revealed increased activity within the left motor cortex - the region associated with controlling movement of the right hand - shortly after each button-pushing prompt.

 

Fox and colleagues also monitored spontaneous activity within the left motor cortex by analysing its "mirror image" in the right motor cortex. This allowed them to see how spontaneous brain activity affected each button press, independent of the "task-related" brain signals.

 

The researchers found that volunteers pressed the button with about half the force, on average, if spontaneous activity occurred a few seconds before each prompt.

Missed goals

 

"This is the first clear evidence that [spontaneous brain activity] has some behavioural significance," says Rasmus Birn of the National Institute of Health in Maryland, US, who was not involved with the research.

 

Fox admits that it remains unclear how spontaneous activity in the motor cortex might cause people to tap their fingers more gently, but speculates that it could be because the activity fools the brain into thinking the finger has already moved partly towards the button.

 

He suggests that spontaneous brain activity may perhaps explain why people engaging in sports sometimes miss an apparently easy goal or basket, by altering the force with which they kick or throw a ball.

 

However, Birn cautions that, "it remains to be seen whether this result holds for more complex cognitive tasks or other brain regions or networks".

 

Journal reference: Neuron (DOI: 10.1016/j.neuron.2007.08.023)

 

 

Drew,

are you aware of the work by Nitamo Federico Montecucco with the Brain Olotested on the syncronizations between the right and the left hemisphere, and between different people?

 

Unfortunately all I can find is in Italian.

http://www.amadeux.net/sublimen/dossier/si...a_coerenza.html

 

I asked around a lot even to people who are doing similar research and it seems that this guy have not published anything in english! He should just translate the 8th chapter of his book, the one where he presents his results, in english, and dump it on the web.

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Am I the only person at TB that sometimes finds Drew Hempel's posts a bit impenetrable? :unsure:

 

 

NO!!! Sometimes I get him though...only sometimes!

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Hemi-sync is Robert Monroe/Holosync is Bill Harris.Different approaches!

 

Yes but both are biaural beats -- yet there's articles explaining that using music on top of the biaural beats just drowns out the effects due to non-sine wave harmonics. This makes sense to me and when I tried these various techniques I found the "guided meditations" of holosync to be particularly annoying as well.

 

It should just be the pure sine wave -- but better yet is the monoaural wave -- or "isochronic" because the entrainment produces a larger amplitude effect. This article argues that white noise "ocean surf" is JUST AS EFFECTIVE as any biaural beats -- and I would agree since it's well-proven that white noise creates

 

"auditory hallucination."

 

This is easily demonstrated in the shower -- ever hear voices external to you while in the shower -- messages from beyond -- not hallucinations as much as subconscious theta communication from white noise "ocean surf."

 

Anyway here's this article -- I've never bought not plan to try the isochronic beats (despite it being easier to spell than biaural or whatever! haha).

 

Why? Because at this level of monoaural or isochronic it's no different than just a DRUM BEAT -- which, steady at the "theta" or delta frequency is the same tempo and frequency as the heart-beat as well. In other words the FREQUENCY of the drum head tone is the same as the RHYTHM of the dream beating -- so the two combine to reinforce amplitude. That's why I like nonwestern traditional African drumming -- like the Kenyan Witchcraft Ritual c.d. which I gave to my former co-worker -- but there's also the Bushmen trance dance hand-clapping c.d.s -- hand clapping was the original drumming! haha.

 

Anyway....

 

http://www.harmonichealingcd.com/pdfs/freq...hing_report.pdf

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Yes but both are biaural beats -- yet there's articles explaining that using music on top of the biaural beats just drowns out the effects due to non-sine wave harmonics. This makes sense to me and when I tried these various techniques I found the "guided meditations" of holosync to be particularly annoying as well.

 

It should just be the pure sine wave -- but better yet is the monoaural wave -- or "isochronic" because the entrainment produces a larger amplitude effect. This article argues that white noise "ocean surf" is JUST AS EFFECTIVE as any biaural beats -- and I would agree since it's well-proven that white noise creates

 

"auditory hallucination."

 

This is easily demonstrated in the shower -- ever hear voices external to you while in the shower -- messages from beyond -- not hallucinations as much as subconscious theta communication from white noise "ocean surf."

 

Anyway here's this article -- I've never bought not plan to try the isochronic beats (despite it being easier to spell than biaural or whatever! haha).

 

Why? Because at this level of monoaural or isochronic it's no different than just a DRUM BEAT -- which, steady at the "theta" or delta frequency is the same tempo and frequency as the heart-beat as well. In other words the FREQUENCY of the drum head tone is the same as the RHYTHM of the dream beating -- so the two combine to reinforce amplitude. That's why I like nonwestern traditional African drumming -- like the Kenyan Witchcraft Ritual c.d. which I gave to my former co-worker -- but there's also the Bushmen trance dance hand-clapping c.d.s -- hand clapping was the original drumming! haha.

 

Anyway....

 

http://www.harmonichealingcd.com/pdfs/freq...hing_report.pdf

 

 

 

Yes isochronics produce a larger cortical evoked response.I'm not familiar with meditation scripts in holosync,in fact, you are suppose to think of nothing and retain choiceless awareness.

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Yeah thanks for the clarification -- but I guess Holosync uses "subliminal" meditation -- here's from a forum by a user:

 

"and the Holosync CDs from the second level onward are made individually for each customer using your own spoken affirmations (supposedly, as you cannot consciously hear them)."

 

Yes isochronics produce a larger cortical evoked response.I'm not familiar with meditation scripts in holosync,in fact, you are suppose to think of nothing and retain choiceless awareness.

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But these new studies on spontaneous activity indicate that what was previously considered white noise random energy is now actually memorized yet "anti-correlated" neuron synchronization. When we learn the neurons synchronize but then it's more efficient to decouple the connection -- like specialization in production, while still maintaining the subconscious "spontaneous activity." Then the various separate connections (really linked on a deeper level) are reintegrated as synchronization at the higher gamma frequency....

Prescient! Its good when you can just forget it ;)

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