Can lions achieve liberation in a buddhist sence?

[Sunya]

its always wonderful to have another sarcastic twit on the Tao Bums, seriously what is it about this place that attracts these people?

[Marblehead]

its always wonderful to have another sarcastic twit on the Tao Bums, seriously what is it about this place that attracts these people?

 

I have no answers but you do cause me laughter now and then. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

Obviously no one else does as has been stated here many times.

 

Actually there are probably the same amount of people that understand, than don't. I understand that because you do not, that your view is subject to that criteria and you probably karmically gravitate towards those that support your ideas about me, which is only natural... not liberated, but natural. It has also been stated by many posters here that they do understand the things I've said and I could name many names. Thank goodness I'm not posting only to hear myself talk. ...

 

I say this only so that maybe you can get a more objective view of your own interpretation of circumstances. It seems that those that really don't understand the things I say are really passionate about it. But, those that understand the things I say just state as such. No big deal.

 

Glad to have helped. I see Vajra has climbed the hill, time for me to jump off the brokeback mountain and let you two cowboyz have some fun with the emptiness. Have a fun weekend ahead

 

Wow... what a perspective?? I actually loved that movie. I don't see how it applies to me and Michaelz relationship. Looordy!

[Sunya]

Actually Mizheals has undergone more training through other avenues other my own. You would benefit more from seeing him as his own person as he has learned way more on his own and through other people than through me. Sometimes he surprises me with information that I've never considered. So, sometimes he indeed is also my teacher.

 

p.s. We just have a tendency to agree on most points.

 

thank you Vaj, that's very kind of you to say.

 

after I understood the true meaning 'emptiness', all your posts started to make sense. I think that since most people see emptiness as some sort of essence or even a 'blank nothingness', they may not understand because they filter what you say through their own limited views.

 

and of course, its always easier to attack the person instead of having a meaningful discussion with them. I think a lot of the people who do that just come here to receive entertainment and pleasure.. and not out of a sense of learning and evolving. When their views are challenged, they don't receive pleasure and so they lash out with anger.. and that anger gives some pleasure too as it affirms the "I'.

[Vajrahridaya]

its always wonderful to have another sarcastic twit on the Tao Bums, seriously what is it about this place that attracts these people?

 

I sometimes wonder if it's just one person coming in many disguises! MARA!!! No kidding... seriously though... that's just a joke.

 

Mara isn't reified in "right view" either. Though those that do, might manifest as the delusional force that he represents.

[Sunya]

I have no answers but you do cause me laughter now and then. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

 

i'm glad you don't take me too seriously,

 

btw Nietszche was a monist!! did you know?? it's true! I was shocked.. thinking he was a nihilistic materialist,, but no! Will To Power sounds a lot like Tao

[booktreasure]

its always wonderful to have another sarcastic twit on the Tao Bums, seriously what is it about this place that attracts these people?

 

Not as difficult to answer that as explain rigpa. People like yourself

[Vajrahridaya]

 

and of course, its always easier to attack the person instead of having a meaningful discussion with them. I think a lot of the people who do that just come here to receive entertainment and pleasure.. and not out of a sense of learning and evolving. When their views are challenged, they don't receive pleasure and so they lash out with anger.. and that anger gives some pleasure too as it affirms the "I'.

 

Come on guys... that's wisdom! You gotta give credit where it's due. Come on... We all know we've experienced this.

 

I know I have.

[Sunya]

I sometimes wonder if it's just one person coming in many disguises! MARA!!! No kidding... seriously though... that's just a joke.

 

Mara isn't reified in "right view" either. Though those that do, might manifest as the delusional force that he represents.

 

 

 

no i've wondered that too. so many similarities..

[Vajrahridaya]

 

no i've wondered that too. so many similarities..

 

You know?? hmmmm...

[Sunya]

I know I have.

 

we can only speak from experience I have too

Edited October 16, 2009 by mikaelz

[Pero]

It would do you much more good to focus on Namkhai Norbu....

 

Yes, that would do us all much more good, not just Mikaelz. So best for all of us to follow your advice.

[Marblehead]

 

 

btw Nietszche was a monist!! did you know?? it's true! I was shocked.. thinking he was a nihilistic materialist,, but no! Will To Power sounds a lot like Tao

 

Yep.

 

Peace & Love!

[Sunya]

Yes, that would do us all much more good, not just Mikaelz. So best for all of us to follow your advice.

 

of course.

[Vajrahridaya]

Yes, that would do us all much more good, not just Mikaelz. So best for all of us to follow your advice.

 

Yes, we shouldn't be discussing this stuff on an open board. Pero's right. Keep it sutra.

[thelerner]

Wishful thinking. Clap your hands loudly, or shoot a gun in the air and see what happens. A master does not react out of fear. A baby will start crying immediately and an animal will run... don't mistake a lions food coma from gorging itself as a state of meditation. They only have glimpses of purity due to the lack of the manifestation of their karmic potential for conditioning. As in, their unconscious has not yet been pulled into their conscious through the product of external stimuli, the future of their karmic manifestation has not yet manifested. A Master is as pure as a child but fully aware of it, so doesn't loose it and doesn't make anymore karmic manifestations.

 

Animals are not evolved enough to even start arguing about the finer points, much less evolved to the point of transcending them.

 

Actually the master who just stands there when a gun is fired nearby may show less survival skills then the animal or human who takes off.

 

But..

I'm wasn't talking about extremes, like when they're being shot or gorged into a coma, I was thinking about every day regular awareness. Despite lack of manifestation whatsits and karmic whatever, I think you underestimate the state of being of the average wild creature.

 

Beyond books, Buddhism and philosophical theory, if you spend time in quiet observation of the wild, you'll see its not a constant fight for survival, there are long periods of 'being' where there is peace and awareness that has much to teach us. The experience of this is as important (though not a substitute) for any sutra.

 

 

Michael

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Beyond books, Buddhism and philosophical theory, if you spend time in quiet observation of the wild, you'll see its not a constant fight for survival, there are long periods of 'being' where there is peace and awareness that has much to teach us. The experience of this is as important (though not a substitute) for any sutra.

Michael

 

I have indeed done just that. I don't find your conclusions to be the truth though.

 

I also have memories through meditation that help in understanding what exactly the wild animals feel when they seem to just be sitting there, as in the inner experience. Mostly in my opinion, you are projecting your own ideals and seeing only your own subjective interpretation. IMHO. Through observation I have found that animals are not able to see through and transcend conditions, instinct and fear of death... for the most part. There might be rare individual animals though.

 

Take care.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Birch]

I think that when my cat was dying he taught me compassion.

[Vajrahridaya]

I think that when my cat was dying he taught me compassion.

 

Indeed. I've had two dogies die on me. Both were heart breaking. I've seen a number of deaths, and all of them have deepened me in some way.

[thelerner]

I have indeed done just that. I don't find your conclusions to be the truth though.

 

I also have memories through meditation that help in understanding what exactly the wild animals feel when they seem to just be sitting there, as in the inner experience. Mostly in my opinion, you are projecting your own ideals and seeing only your own subjective interpretation. IMHO. Through observation I have found that animals are not able to see through and transcend conditions, instinct and fear of death... for the most part. There might be rare individual animals though.

 

Take care.

 

I respectfully disagree, little creatures full of Buddha nature scamper, crawl and fly all around me.

 

whoops there's one creeping across my computer screen now, about to head for Nirvana.

 

just kidding

 

Yours

 

Michael

[JustARandomPanda]

The other day I found I didn't have the heart to kill a bug when formerly I would have done so without thinking. If Buddhism is true this bug could someday be a human. I suspect I was a bug in many former lives.

[Vajrahridaya]

The other day I found I didn't have the heart to kill a bug when formerly I would have done so without thinking. If Buddhism is true this bug could someday be a human. I suspect I was a bug in many former lives.

 

awww....

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I sometimes wonder if it's just one person coming in many disguises! MARA!!! No kidding... seriously though... that's just a joke.

 

Mara isn't reified in "right view" either. Though those that do, might manifest as the delusional force that he represents.

 

 

Yes, in a sense, you are actually right. You two are the center of all this stuff (the common denominator) among all this snarky-snipey buddhist arguing drama. No one else. Yet you insist that it's everyone else, not you. In a sense, we are a single entity in many disguises, much like all the obstacles in your karmic path... we are that which has come to awaken you from your egoic slumber so comfortably wrapped in what you believe you are doing with dzogchen, etc... can't you see the thread? Can you not see your own blind spots when they are pointed out to you?

 

You would have much more success in having people hear you out if you take another approach, of humility and self reflection. More people would actually take you seriously. As it is, you two are a terrible advertisement for your spiritual path, being so arrogant, preachy and defensive. Sorry, no equanimity. Nope. Nuh-uh.

Edited October 17, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[ralis]

Yes, in a sense, you are actually right. You two are the center of all this stuff (the common denominator) among all this snarky-snipey buddhist arguing drama. No one else. Yet you insist that it's everyone else, not you. In a sense, we are a single entity in many disguises, much like all the obstacles in your karmic path... we are that which has come to awaken you from your egoic slumber so comfortably wrapped in what you believe you are doing with dzogchen, etc... can't you see the thread? Can you not see your own blind spots when they are pointed out to you?

 

You would have much more success in having people hear you out if you take another approach, of humility and self reflection. More people would actually take you seriously. As it is, you two are a terrible advertisement for your spiritual path, being so defensive. No equanimity.

 

I think this drama is based in fear. I remember Norbu saying that it is an error to make the cage cozier by feathering it with more and more teaching than flying away from it all. Knowledge is more important than the accumulation of teachings.

 

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]