Advice Needed

[JustARandomPanda]

I have a somewhat unsual situation but I am curious to see if I could turn it into something that might further my spiritual self or be roped into my beginning meditation and interest in Taoist alchemy.

 

It involves sex. Or rather the lack of it I suppose. I only get to see my boyfriend twice a year since he is lives and goes to school in another state but we voice chat via Ventrillo every night and webcam on the weekends. When he was here a few weeks ago he was here for 2 weeks.

 

The background to my upcoming questions is this:

 

I don't have an insanely high libido. If that were the case I couldn't be in a long-distance relationship because the natural outcome is celibacy.

 

However...

 

I keep reading that celibacy can be used to one's advantage and is even recommended for some Taoist practices but they always seems to be geared for men. I would like to know how women can use it the way men can. Can anyone direct me to a source or give me some beginner exercises to use my sexual energy to further my beginning practice? Perhaps there is a practice men use that can be modified for use by women? Any info is warmly welcomed.

 

Cheers to everyone at Taobums - I love this site.

Edited June 19, 2009 by SereneBlue

[Birch]

From what I've understood, once you're past means of arousal and some muscular issues, the rest of the practices are pretty similar for men and women. Trunk had some interesting suggestions, as did Santiago (;-))

 

Also, from what I've gathered, it's just easier for women to be celibate if they hold off climax. Men, not as easy for whatever reason).

 

Will try to find links...

[Fire Dragon]

I have a somewhat unsual situation but I am curious to see if I could turn it into something that might further my spiritual self or be roped into my beginning meditation and interest in Taoist alchemy.

 

It involves sex. Or rather the lack of it I suppose. I only get to see my boyfriend twice a year since he is lives and goes to school in another state but we voice chat via Ventrillo every night and webcam on the weekends. When he was here a few weeks ago he was here for 2 weeks.

 

The background to my upcoming questions is this:

 

I don't have an insanely high libido. If that were the case I couldn't be in a long-distance relationship because the natural outcome is celibacy.

 

However...

 

I keep reading that celibacy can be used to one's advantage and is even recommended for some Taoist practices but they always seems to be geared for men. I would like to know how women can use it the way men can. Can anyone direct me to a source or give me some beginner exercises to use my sexual energy to further my beginning practice? Perhaps there is a practice men use that can be modified for use by women? Any info is warmly welcomed.

 

Cheers to everyone at Taobums - I love this site.

 

 

 

Interesting question. Though I am a male There seems to be a lack of knowledge about woman qultivation regarding sex in general.

 

Wang Liping have two missions from hes teacher. That is hes missions for life. One is to establish contact between western science and taoism and the other is to complement the knowledge of woman qultivation, pehaps by own writing and finding old texts, not shore about how realy. Something like that anyway.

 

I have a book "The chinese sexual yoga classics including womenn's solo meditations texts" you might find something of interest in that one. I havent read that part myself jet so I'm not shore what you will find. Anyway the book contains most of the written sex material from the taoists shools. If not all.

 

I also study whith Hsi Lai in the white tigress system. That is a system with wery high developed women, hard to find in other schools. Thoose practises are not on celibacy. On the contrary, while the woman might have a relationship or she might be married in the same time she have sex, oral energetic sex, with green dragons to replenish her Jing. Perhaps that is a solution for you and your boyfriend, if you are opened minded enough and if you can handle the jelousy part of it. After about three years of replenishing the Jing, if I remember right it is possible to practise in celibacy. Before that you have lost so much Jing and so the practise in celibacy should not be effective at all.

 

I also practise in the universal tao system, mantak chia, since many years, and have a yoga group consisting of me and four girls. Of course it is possible to practise such practises as the jade egg, the breast massage and others to replenish your Jing and to not loose so much energy. The down side of it is probably that you will be more horny of it and will want to have more sex, not less, I guess. Anyway it contains some nice practises for woman in that school.

 

 

 

I don't know if any of this was an answer to your question, but perhaps it helps you in further investigations.

 

 

 

 

F D

[Mokona]

Mula Bhanda / Root lock.

 

The practice is the same for females and males.

 

http://www.thesecretsofyoga.com/bhandas/Mu...-Root-Lock.html

 

The idea is to tighten during the inhale and relax completely during the exhale. It is helpful to use the relaxing of your muscles after the lock to help the rest of your body relax as well. If this practice works "too" well, just stop doing it and use the microcosmic orbits to circulate the excess through your body and stepping out on the grass can help you ground the rest.

 

Good luck in your practice.

 

Keep your tongue on the roof of your mouth, or let it touch the area of the roof it most feels comfortable. It helps prevent burn-out if things start to rise too quickly.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Mokona

[DarkMind]

I have a somewhat unsual situation but I am curious to see if I could turn it into something that might further my spiritual self or be roped into my beginning meditation and interest in Taoist alchemy.

 

It involves sex. Or rather the lack of it I suppose. I only get to see my boyfriend twice a year since he is lives and goes to school in another state but we voice chat via Ventrillo every night and webcam on the weekends. When he was here a few weeks ago he was here for 2 weeks.

 

The background to my upcoming questions is this:

 

I don't have an insanely high libido. If that were the case I couldn't be in a long-distance relationship because the natural outcome is celibacy.

 

However...

 

I keep reading that celibacy can be used to one's advantage and is even recommended for some Taoist practices but they always seems to be geared for men. I would like to know how women can use it the way men can. Can anyone direct me to a source or give me some beginner exercises to use my sexual energy to further my beginning practice? Perhaps there is a practice men use that can be modified for use by women? Any info is warmly welcomed.

 

Cheers to everyone at Taobums - I love this site.

 

Tantric sex can be practised without a physical partner. However, it is strongly advised to get an authentic guru to teach you. It might be safer to get one from an established spiritual tradition.

[Mal]

I have a book "The chinese sexual yoga classics including womenn's solo meditations texts" you might find something of interest in that one.

 

Yes, that would be the book I recommend too. Mainly because you will see the evolution of sexual practices over time and the different objectives of these practices. Explains a lot about why there are so many different methods and goals. Buy it

 

Also "Immortal Sisters Secret Teachings of Taoist Women" trans Thomas Cleary. Good stuff in there.

 

Finaly Chias Cultivating Female Sexual Energy.

 

While the physical stuff is certanly fun contact isn't necessary and distance may not be a problem either, especially since you can chat over the phone etc. I had lots of fun with my partner chating every night for 16mts and then 2 years when she was in different towns, we were only meeting on weekends. The bonus for you is you have a webcam too which boys tend to enjoy

 

Also if you want to be able to do some rather trippy weird stuf with sex, rather than just read about it, I highly recomend KAP with Santi. It's not the "goal" but it gives you some nice tools to play with

[Smile]

You can also talk to Wendy on http://www.healingdao.com/cgi-bin/tpost.pl

She teaches women this stuff.

[gendao]

I kinda thought that while men typically lose jing through ejaculation...women may actually gain it by being ejaculated into?

 

And do women also lose jing from orgasm, or do they sort of retain it since they "implode" more than "explode?"

 

I believe for women, they typically lose jing more from menstruation (thus the practice of "slaying the red dragon" to stop that) and childbirth - than sex & orgasms. This would be because jing is one's personal lifeforce that gets imparted to one's hypothetical offspring during sex - and is associated with sperm & eggs.

 

I'm sure Kathy Li here could answer these questions for you...

[Mal]

I kinda thought that while men typically lose jing through ejaculation...women may actually gain it by being ejaculated into?

 

Perhaps not "lol" as I remember our resident witch saying she was able to do that. Also women really do seem to "get something" from their partners orgasm IMHO

[Birch]

What if the key is not ejaculation but something else? In our condom-wearing world, nothing (some of us hope;-)) is going into anyone (and no, men do not likely experience backdraft...) So maybe it`s something else?

[Mal]

What if the key is not ejaculation but something else? In our condom-wearing world, nothing (some of us hope;-)) is going into anyone (and no, men do not likely experience backdraft...) So maybe it`s something else?

 

That tiny piece of plastic is not even noticeable as a barrier to energy exchange. Even intercourse isn't necessary either, just intent. That is why it's so important to play with "nice/good" people as it's very much an exchange happening.

[Birch]

If that's the case, then what's the story about ejaculation? Apart from getting it mixed up with orgasm?

I keep getting lost with this stuff. I wouldn`t condone a man holding back if he doesn't benefit from it somewhere.

[Mal]

[erdweir]

The basic idea is that you can transform jing (sexual energy) into chi, chi to shen, then to emptiness. you have to learn to conserve your jing first, and when you are full, trun it into chi, etc.

 

women are supposed to lose their jing through their periods, and are not as prone to losing it during sex like men because they don't drop an egg every time they have sex. women dont automaticly harvest all the jing men lose through ejaculation during sex, theuy have to know how to collect it. I think the white tigress book mentioned above teaches this but people say this is a form of vampirism and i tend to argee. taoist and tantric female adepts go through something called "slaying the red dragon" where they actually stop their periods. I am not a big fan of mantak chia these days, but i believe his book on cultivating female sexual energy covers this. wang liping also teaches female alchemy at his workshops in china. the hindu tantric tradition is a bit more twisted, it gets into drinking menstrual blood and all of this crap, and had allot to say about it's powers. kind of similar to the sperm gobbling antics of Aleister Crowley's O.T.O.

Edited June 30, 2009 by erdweir

[WhiteTiger]

Women lose Jing from sexual acts. Even the thought of the mind wondering creates pockets of time when your not holding you energy within you. I've heard many times on this website on many different posts that these things happen even before you start to think about it. That the mere intention happens before your thoughts happen. Weather it is your intention or another person intention.

 

Women lose Jing through sexual secretions. Although much much lose then men do through ejaculation. Although most people get confused or mixed up between females losing lots of Jing through sexual acts. Most of there Jing is lost through there blood when they have a period. Many women before every having sex and being of age to start the process of having periods don't have them except once every 3 months. I've heard of reports of healthy females naturally grow up only having a period every 4-6 months even. These are honestly 100% not unnatural things.

 

I believe female monks have special ways to have the periods stop. Although they do not force it. The process is a long process taking months and months to achieve of hard diligent practice. I'm sure such a practice may be genuinely taught in all female Taoist Mountains. (where the temples are strictly all females).

 

Anyway, its just seems extremely unpractical in my opinion at least for a layman (women in this case) to do or achieve such practices. Although I'm sure it could be done given one has a proper teacher.

 

Peace,

wt

 

P.S. Should be understood to know extensively upon the subject before even searching for a teacher properly qualified to teach such a thing.

[steve]

I keep reading that celibacy can be used to one's advantage and is even recommended for some Taoist practices but they always seems to be geared for men. I would like to know how women can use it the way men can. Can anyone direct me to a source or give me some beginner exercises to use my sexual energy to further my beginning practice? Perhaps there is a practice men use that can be modified for use by women? Any info is warmly welcomed.

 

Cheers to everyone at Taobums - I love this site.

I've heard Livia Kohn talk about this topic. She cautioned that the process is considerably different for men and women. She talked about women focusing much more on the middle dan tian than the lower. She talked about negative effects from too much focus on the lower dan tian, particularly during menstruation. I'd be careful and try to find a knowledgable teacher. You may even want to try and contact Livia. She seemed very well versed in the topic.

Here is some contact info - http://www.bu.edu/religion/faculty/bios/kohn.html

[Birch]

Really interesting replies so far!

 

I won't assume that the guys don't want to know some of this stuff but if they don't then they can go fishing or summit

 

Periods are annoying, but also can be sort of renewing (can also be a huge relief for some...) . I used to envy some of the African women I heard about who had to go away and do nothing in a hut with the girls during theirs.

 

To have very long periods (which some women do) is extremely tiring and a definite loss of energy. I can't speak to this as I`m barely at 3 days all told (close your ears men;-))

 

Ovulation is a source of weird energy, the week before can be bitch worse than any "PMS" (hehehe "dropping eggs";-))

 

Won't get into horniness schedule on a public-ish forum - however, there are definite spikes. Circulation is very good for those moments if you want to do something with it and don't have a partner...

 

Agree that sex energy seems overall to have a strange rap. I'm finding it really interesting to turn off the learned ideas (well, as much as I can) and check it out for what it is. Mostly pretty cool, but it can get annoying unless you put it somewhere (circulate or ...).

 

Still laughing at Mal's "meat puppet" quote.

 

In the UK, the term for ladies might be "beef curtains".

[Mal]

[Birch]

Mal, darling ;-)

 

If you (and she) can get past the colour, then toy shop stays open ;-) IMO (come get me taoists who say it's a bad idea ;-))

 

But beware, from experience, this can weird things out both sides (maybe the taoists have something there). But if you're past weird, go for it. It's not as if you don't already love her from tip to tail.

[Mal]

I'm so far past weird I don't ever remember what normal looked like unfortunately my partner is not so "adventurous"

[JustARandomPanda]

What is KAP?

Edited July 2, 2009 by SereneBlue

[Mal]

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=6566

 

A nice little project staring our very own Santiago (Vajrasattva) and a excellent chap called Tao

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=9719

 

My long and boring personal practice blog (link in my sig)

[Guest artform]

 

...But womens sexuality is certainly something I'm very interested in, and you girls are so nice to put up with us discussing EJ and retention every few days so I've go no problems with periods.

 

Various thoughts -

Been thinking about this and while jing retention isn't one of my things (perhaps I will learn to regret that, who knows) From playing with multiples the path of the energy really does seem to be different. Back and up the spine, rather that the (familiar) going forward and out through the genitals sensation. Could that be an "implode" vs "explode" Multiples or non EJ sex also seem to feel more errr rejuvenatory/completing than exhausting/finished. Still can't get over the "well I can stop now or keep going happy with either option" sensation...

 

 

Agree very much Mal! The energies/multiples route is cyclically re-energizing and our experience as a couple! Mrs. a has been post-menopausal and enjoying that freedom for several years. That is what led her to the desire to explore her ejaculatory orgasmic possibilities, which brought my prostate massage practice into our now mutual prostate/gspot practice. It feels like the dry multiples practice may well be "cooking" the jing into chi and putting the transmutation ladder into action in our experience. Now we also do mutual energy sharing full cycles with non-genital contacts like fingers and toes/feet to complete the body loops. That "'option' sensation" you mention is wonderful and we do choose from time to time to both move into ejac mode, having already seemed to reach new energy levels.

 

all the best multiples/energetics for you and your partner

 

artform