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Bora Ring The song is gone; the dance is secret with the dancers in the earth, the ritual useless, and the tribal story lost in an alien tale. Only the grass stands up to mark the dancing-ring; the apple-gums posture and mime a past corroboree, murmur a broken chant. The hunter is gone; the spear is splintered underground; the painted bodies a dream the world breathed sleeping and forgot. The nomad feet are still. Only the rider's heart halts at a sightless shadow, an unsaid word that fastens in the blood of the ancient curse, the fear as old as Cain. - Judith Wright. Analysis (ai): The poem reflects on the loss of an indigenous culture and its rituals, which are now only hinted at through the enduring landscape. It depicts the disappearance of the song, dance, and story, leaving only remnants like the grass marking the dancing ring and apple-gums mimicking the corroboree. The hunter, spear, and painted bodies are all gone, their memory reduced to a dream.The poem echoes other works by Judith Wright that explore similar themes of loss and cultural displacement. It is representative of the post-colonial era, where the impact of European colonization on indigenous cultures was deeply felt and reflected in literature and art. By capturing the remnants of a lost culture through evocative imagery, the poem serves as a reminder of the fragility and resilience of human traditions. (hide) Analysis ( Nungali ) : Not really, and dated information . It is not ALL memory reduced to a dream . During the time Judith writes of, the tradition survived underground , yes a lot was lost , but a lot is coming back again . I am sure many Daobums have seen at least film of some Aboriginal ceremony and painted bodies, and some of them still hunt and spear , some even make stone tools and use them , I have seen it and also posted video here of it . We still have Bora rings and some are still 'active ' . You are not supposed to enter them ..... But they hold the 'memory' of what has gone on in them before , one can imagine how it was done in the old days ... The deep drone of the music, the rhythm of the sticks and the stamping feet , the high wailing singing ... the entrance ( These images are in the public domain - already published ) song; The other types of power centers here have various purposes ; the energy of the Bora ring is suitable for initiation , other places for birth, often pools . There is one near my place , in some areas they are common . Other centers are for 'travel' that are more like 'vortices' and seem to relate to fire energy or at least lightening and connect underground through quartz seams . We have one here up on the back ridge . It all links together with 'lines' . Once an indigenous elder staying here 'mapped' it for me - verbally . Interesting as he had not been here before , had arrived after sunset and come straight inside . Later he sat on the floor closed his eyes and described the environment energetically , which also coincided with the the physical landscape .

I have come to see the psyche not merely as a mind in the psychological sense, but as a layered energetic system populated by subtle forces. At the heart of this view are the subconscious emotional and mental currents, and deeper still, two complementary unconscious currents that I’ve come to think of as the Shiva aspects and the Shakti aspects. The emotional and mental currents we’re all familiar with, but the Shiva and Shakti currents are less obvious, so I will go into some detail about them. They can be recognized through many vivid symbolic pairs: Wildfire / Fireplace The dynamic blaze that consumes and transforms. The hearth that holds the fire safely, giving it purpose and warmth. Fish / Fishbowl The darting, elusive vitality moving through hidden depths. The clear bowl that contains, supports, shapes, and protects its motions. Cat / Dog The graceful, sensitive, easily startled nature that seeks comfort. The loyal guardian that stays close, watching over and calming. Fearful / Protector The trembling instinct that recoils from perceived danger. The steady presence that stands firm, offering safety. These pairs are not idle poetry. They illustrate how the unconscious houses instinctual forces that must evolve together. The Shakti aspect represents a dynamic, vital current — the drive toward life, transformation, emotional vitality, subtle creativity. The Shiva aspect provide containment, the instinctive intelligence that knows how to protect, restrain, channel, and nurture what would otherwise be chaotic. In each pairing: The dynamic life-force is untamed, vital, transformative. The caring containment is protective, shaping, enabling that energy to flourish without harm. They are co-arising: the wild needs the safe space to exist meaningfully; the container finds purpose in cradling the life within. If one seeks only to awaken the dynamic energy (as in a blind kundalini pursuit), without fostering the complementary instinct to contain and guide it, imbalance is inevitable. The system can flare into anxiety, delusion, or emotional overwhelm. This is why so many teachings stress that cultivation is not merely about amplifying energy, but purifying and preparing the mental and emotional channels first, so the deeper forces can safely develop. To purify the emotional and mental currents tangled by personal history, they must be witnessed and brought into greater flow. They are the first terrain of inner work, and through methods such as shadow work, dream exploration, deep feeling and understanding etc, their dysfunctions can be gradually resolved. Only then can the deeper unconscious forces, the Shiva and Shakti layers, find their ground. Importantly, it is the Shiva aspect that must awaken the Shakti aspect, otherwise containment will not occur, and the Shiva aspect in its turn has to first be activated by the flowing current of the emotional and mental currents. Recently, my dreams have begun to show me that when these two deep unconscious instinctual layers find each other and start to mature in their interaction, something new emerges. In symbolic terms, this is represented as a smaller, independent vehicle that will one day travel on its own. This resonates with images from Daoist Neidan (inner alchemy) where an alchemical child is born - an autonomous subtle body that eventually can separate from the main system. This smaller independent vehicle or child is the fruit of a long interplay between mature containment (Shiva) and vitality (Shakti). But the picture does not end here. Overseeing all of this is the witness self, the faculty of clear seeing that stands apart from the energies it observes. This witness is the part that learns to trust that the humble, instinctual containment field is capable of guiding the system more wisely than the anxious grasping of the conscious mind. It slowly informs the conscious mind, which may then serve as the executive agent, ruling not by force but by insight. In the end, I see the conscious mind, gently taught by the witness, becoming the wise steward of the system - allowing these deeper layers to do their work, neither interfering unnecessarily nor abandoning responsibility. Thus the entire architecture of psyche - subconscious, unconscious, witness, and conscious mind - becomes integrated. Each layer performs its unique role, culminating in a new life, an independent vitality born of the interplay between our deepest instinctual forces. A compact visual map (Divine / Mother/ Highest Source) ↓ Witness Self (objective seeing, clear awareness) ↓ Conscious Mind (steward) (makes decisions based on witness insight) ↓ ----------------------------------------------- | | Emotional Stream Mental Stream (Subconscious patterns & biases) ↓ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | | Dynamic Vital Force Containment Field (Shakti aspects) (Shiva aspects) - wildfire, fish, cat, fear - fireplace, fishbowl, dog, protector ↓ Interplay gives rise to: Smaller independent vehicle (new independent ‘entity’ directed by the conscious mind)

Intro by me, Surya (not a part of the substack) So, in the winter months, I had a chat online with this wonderfull fellow, about Jung and myth. He invited me to his substack, where he once in a blue moon shares his writings. I have decided to share this with you for several reasons: - to spread his writings - in the hope it is of interrest to you as well - perhsaps start a discussion here Cheers! Follow Your Bliss: Joseph Campbell’s Path to the Transcendent Liam James Jul 10 READ IN APP For Joseph Campbell, following your own personal myth provides a framework for personal growth and helps us live lives in tune with our nature. You find your myth by following your bliss. Discover Campbell’s teachings on following your bliss to reach the transcendent below, with help from Brazilian football and Oasis. All the Campbell quotes below are taken from Pathways to Bliss: Mythology and Personal Transformation. Pledge your support Mythic figures as guides Mythic figures can serve as role models in a given area. Campbell explains: ‘…the gods represent the patron powers that support you in your field of action. And by contemplating the deities, you’re given a kind of steadying force that puts you in the role, as it were, that is represented by that particular deity.’ Myths represent a society’s values and provide directions and frameworks for living well, something Campbell held valuable. ‘I don’t know how it is now, right this minute, when so many new possibilities have opened up for life. But in my experience it has always been the model that gives you the idea of the direction in which to go, and the way in which to handle the problems and opportunities that come up.’ But even then, in the mid-to-late 20th century, he hints at a lack of myths to represent the diversity of human experience. The ‘new possibilities’ Campbell refers to in the last century are dwarfed by contemporary risks and opportunities ushered in by technological advancements and AI, rendering the myths of old even less applicable and new myths harder to imagine. He makes the same point later in the text: ‘Life has changed in form so rapidly that even the forms that were normal to think about in the time of my boyhood are no longer around, and there’s another set, and everything is moving very, very fast. Today we don’t have the stasis that is required for the formation of a mythic tradition.’ So while the myths of old may offer some guidance, we need some new way of relating ourselves to the transcendent through myth. Read the article I wrote on Campbell below to learn more about the transcendent: Becoming Transparent to the Transcendent: Joseph Campbell on Realising Your True Nature Relating yourself to transcendence Campbell distinguishes myth from Eastern traditions as a way of relating yourself to transcendence: ‘Of course, in trying to relate yourself to transcendence, you don’t have to have images. You can go the Zen way and forget the myths altogether. But I’m talking about the mythic way. And what the myth does is to provide a field in which you can locate yourself. That’s the sense of the mandala, the sacred circle, whether you are a Tibetan monk or the patient of a Jungian analyst. The symbols are laid out around the circle, and you are to locate yourself in the center. A labyrinth, of course, is a scrambled mandala, in which you don’t know where you are. That’s the way the world is for people who don’t have a mythology. It’s a labyrinth. They are battling their way through as if no one had ever been there before.’ So myth gives you direction, unscrambling the labyrinth. But if the old models don’t fit, what can we do? Share Bliss as a model for life Campbell suggests following bliss is a reliable model for reaching the transcendent: ‘In this way, your bliss becomes your life. There’s a saying in Sanskrit: the three aspects that point furthest toward the border of the abyss are sat, cit, and ananda: being, consciousness, and bliss. You can call transcendence a hole or the whole, either one, because it is beyond all words. All that we can talk about is what is on this side of transcendence. And the problem is to open the words, to open the images so that they point past themselves. They will tend to shut off the experience through their own opacity. But these three concepts are those that will bring you closest to that void: sat-cit-ananda. Being, consciousness, and bliss.’ He continues: ‘Now, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve been thinking a lot about these things. And I don’t know what being is. And I don’t know what consciousness is. But I do know what bliss is: that deep sense of being present, of doing what you absolutely must do to be yourself. If you can hang on to that, you are on the edge of the transcendent already.’ Campbell studied in Germany and Paris, and returned to America just three weeks before the 1929 Wall Street crash. But this apparent disaster proved auspicious, as it allowed him time to pursue his bliss: ‘…I didn’t have a job for five years. And, fortunately for me, there was no welfare. I had nothing to do but sit in Woodstock and read and figure out where my bliss lay. There I was, on the edge of excitement all the time.’ The edge of excitement is a great place to spend your life, and Campbell’s experiences there inform his philosophy for life: ‘So, what I’ve told my students is this: follow your bliss. You’ll have moments when you’ll experience bliss. And when that goes away, what happens to it? Just stay with us, and there’s more security in that than in finding out where the money is going to come from next year’. I recently started rereading Jonathan Wilson’s Inverting the Pyramid, and found this to resonate with the teachings of Campbell and Jung: ‘That tension – between beauty and cynicism, between what Brazilians call futebol d’arte and futebol de resultados – is a constant, perhaps because it is so fundamental, not merely to sport but also to life: to win, or to play the game well? It is hard to think of any significant actions that are not in some way a negotiation between the two extremes of pragmatism and idealism.’ Campbell’s clearly on the ‘play the game well’ side, but his point is that this idealistic philosophy is the most practical too; more ‘secure’, to quote him. The blissful ideal itself becomes the practical guide. Discovering your myth through bliss For Campbell, bliss is a guide that will help you discover your myth: ‘Your bliss can guide you to that transcendent mystery, because bliss is the welling up of the energy of the transcendent wisdom within you. So when the bliss cuts off, you know that you’ve cut off the welling up; try to find it again, and that will be your Hermes guide, the dog that can follow the invisible trail for you. And that’s the way it is. One works out one’s own myth that way.’ The idea that it is one’s own myth is key for Campbell; earlier traditions can give clues, but they are only clues: ‘As many a wise man has said, “You can’t wear another person’s hat.”… You’ve got to find the wisdom, not the clothing of it. Through those trappings, the myths of other cultures, you can come to a wisdom that you’ve then got to translate into your own. The whole problem is to turn these mythologies into your own.’ The Holy Grail Campbell references an Arthurian myth, where the Holy Grail partially reveals itself to the knights assembled in the banquet hall. It doesn’t appear in its full glory, and is covered with a radiant cloth, before it withdraws, leaving the knights in awe. Gawain, Arthur’s nephew, proposes that the knights go in quest of the Grail to behold it unveiled. Below is Campbell’s response: ‘Now we come to the text that interested me. The text reads, “They thought it would be a disgrace to go forth in a group. Each entered the Forest Adventurous at that point which he himself had chosen, where it was darkest and there was no way or path.” You enter the forest at the darkest point, where there is no way or path. Where there’s a way or path, it is somebody else’s path; each human being is a unique phenomenon. The idea is to find your own pathway to bliss’. Leave a comment What if you don’t know what your bliss is? ‘I don’t know what it is that makes me feel alive I don’t know how to wake the things that sleep inside I only wanna see the light that shines behind your eyes’ Acquiesce – Oasis I’m realising my teenage dream tomorrow and seeing Oasis live – a band that millions of us worldwide love for the way they awaken that very feeling of blissful transcendence and liveliness within us. And while it’s probably optimistic to try and discern too many deep truths about the human condition from Oasis lyrics, particularly those related to the psychological teachings of Campbell and Jung, there is a light-hearted connection to make between the opening lines of Acquiesce and the points I’ve made earlier in this article. The point is, we may not know our bliss – what makes us ‘feel alive’ – but there’s often some hint: some fleeting moments of curiosity or sparks amid the dull listlessness of life that can orient us towards the transcendent. Campbell would advise looking out for these. In Jungian discourse, uncertainty is often just a lack of self-knowledge, and can be approached with inner work that deals with the unconscious Jung would probably go a step further than Campbell and advise using active imagination and dialoguing with both emotional sides – the general feelings of ennui and the transient moments of interest or joy – to explore them more, gain self-knowledge, and expand the personality. Summary For Campbell, bliss – that ‘deep sense of being present, of doing what you absolutely must do to be yourself’ – is a pathway to the transcendent. Following bliss puts you on a mythic path, offering an alternative model to that of Eastern traditions. And if you don’t know your bliss, you can look to Jung’s teachings on working with the unconscious to unlock the energy stored there. Thanks for reading The Creative Awakening Playbook! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. Pledge your support The Creative Awakening Playbook is free today. 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God told me in a dream that Georgians are an interesting people

I wouldn't accuse your friend of lying. He might have had an experience of that which he remembers vividly. I can remember my 18th birthday party, but it is ONLY a memory, not something I can see or experience now. This is the problem. As much as I love the idea, an Akashic records vault full of stories about he past and future violates everything that insight into emptiness/dao/Buddha nature clearly demonstrates about reality in this moment. Speaking solely for myself, I would only believe it if I saw it but it would have to violate everything I know about the ultimate qualities of reality, AND it would have to be something that was always available in this moment. It is instructive, by way of an example, to look at what some enlightened teachers say about their ultimate conclusions on past lives. This example comes most easily to mind, but my teacher and others I have chatted to about this topic say essentially the same thing: Experiences of past lives DO happen - but that doesn't mean they have any deeper reality than something you dream, or even something you did yesterday. Can you see your past life, or experience of the Akashic records in this moment? This is what matters. This is the litmus test for what is "real". Anything you are not experiencing in this this moment, where you are, is a story you are telling yourself. This is obvious where there is non-dual/unity understanding. Insight into the non-dual nature of reality is omnipresent - part of this moment of experiencing forever.

Yes, Dogen IS saying something, absolutely. He is saying: "When you actualize your practice it happens here... NOW." Realization of enlightenment doesn't happen in the past or future, it happens when you drop all of your doing and find sudden presence in this moment by sitting". Awaken, and actualize the practice NOW. The dream of watching the world is the same as the dream of becoming engrossed watching television. The moment you become engaged in the story of what you watch you are lost. There is watching phenomena arise and pass, impermanent, not being caught up in the story of the mind. There is simple presence, and the emptiness of self/time/space. This happens all the time... it is just waiting for you to notice. Take a deep breath and let it out from your mouth slowly as you read this sentence. Maybe it is happening now as you read these words?

Human madness will not end. There will always be extremes and there will always be differences of opinion regarding what is madness and what is sanity. As Jiddu Krishnamurti famously said, it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to such a sick society. But that does not mean we can't improve our situation and that of others by beginning at grass roots levels. Human "civilization" is at least 5 - 6,000 years old, possibly older, and yet nothing meaningful has changed in our collective and individual psyches. We are evolving technologically and possibily intellectually but not psychologically or emotionally. In many ways we feel more sophisticated, more knowledgable, more capable, but if you look at our situation, inequality is worse than ever in history, our destructive potential is more formidable than ever before, the effects of our presence on Earth more destructive than ever before. When you look at our behavior and its effects, our species acts very much like a cancer - growing without any restraint or sensibility, choking out all competition, destroying our loving host, and putting our very survival at risk. It's nice to imagine that something or someone will come along and change all that but the evidence does not support such a dream. None of our religious, political, or intellectual leaders have made much of a difference overall. Certainly there are regions and groups that do better than others and this fluctuates over time but overall I see little evidence of collective psychological and emotional growth. While this may sound and feel very discouraging, there is a solution as described above. We must free ourselves from the shackles of ignorance and limitation imposed by millennia of conditioning and sabotage. We must discover and remember what it means to be fully human, both individually and collectively. That can only start by turning inward and looking at the truth of our own personal situation. For me, this is the core and purpose of spirituality.

“... as an emerald jewel, of all good qualities, might be strung on a thread, blue-green or yellow or red or white or orange coloured; and a [person] with vision, having put it in [their] hand, might reflect; ‘this emerald jewel... is strung on a thread, blue-green... or orange-coloured’–even so... a course has been pointed out by me for disciples, practising which disciples of mine know thus: This body of mine... is of a nature to be constantly rubbed away... and scattered, but this consciousness is fastened there, bound there....” (MN 77, tr. Pali Text Society Vol II p 217; see also AN Pali Text Society vol IV pp 202-203) From something on my site: On a forum site I frequent, someone wrote: Even if you have no identity, you still exist. As what? The spirituality that I follow would say “as existence”, or “as pure consciousness”. I was reminded of Nisargadatta, a famous teacher who lived in India in the last century: You are not your body, but you are the consciousness in the body, because of which you have the awareness of “I am”. It is without words, just pure beingness. Meditation means you have to hold consciousness by itself. The consciousness should give attention to itself. (Gaitonde, Mohan [2017]. Self – Love: The Original Dream [Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj’s Direct Pointers) “The consciousness should give attention to itself”—in thirteenth-century Japan, Eihei Dogen wrote: Therefore, …take the backward step of turning the light and shining it back. (“Fukan zazengi” Tenpuku version; tr. Carl Bielefeldt, “Dogen’s Manuals of Zen Meditation”, p 176) That’s a poetic way to say “the consciousness should give attention to itself”. I used to talk about the location of consciousness, but a friend of mine would always respond that for him, consciousness has no specific location. As a result, I switched to writing about the placement of attention: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Response to “Not the Wind, Not the Flag”) In his “Genjo Koan”, Dogen wrote: When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. (“Genjo Koan [Actualizing the Fundamental Point]”, tr. Kazuaki Tanahashi) Given a presence of mind that can “hold consciousness by itself”, activity in the body begins to coordinate by virtue of the sense of place associated with consciousness. A relationship between the free location of consciousness and activity in the body comes forward, and as that relationship comes forward, “practice occurs”. Through such practice, the placement of consciousness is manifested in the activity of the body. ("Take the Backward Step") "A friend of mine would always respond that for him, consciousness has no specific location"--that's another friend of mine, Stirling, not you!--your point of view on the nature of consciousness is widely shared, I know. As far as realizing the cessation of volition in the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation, and so "just sitting", I"m not sure how that point of view enters into practice.

That may be how things end up, but there aren't teachings that really reach out that far that aren't storytelling and have the Dao as their basis, at least as far as I am aware.... and I have looked. Even the Buddha said that once "self" is dropped, you can let go of Buddhism in his raft story. As the 6th Zen patriarch said: Where "self" has completely dropped away and identification is now with the Dao/Rigpa/awareness/emptiness there IS no reincarnation or rebirth. Belief in the idea of some place you have been or someplace to go drops away as the concept of Space collapses. This is true also for separation. Over time, the experience of a "self" separate from experience drops away as dualities fall away. None of this means you are going anywhere, unless the intention arises in you to move to a new house, or make new friends. Even then, you haven't really gone anywhere. You only wake up once, but the dream of separateness doesn't go anywhere as far as I can tell... it is just understood to be what it is. There is a fairly simple (but difficult to grasp) misunderstanding. Sometimes that misunderstanding becomes clear.

all my friends and I talk about is getting rid of our phones— a dystopian dream dominating dinner conversation, our phones on the middle of the table   like candles   like altars like tiny gods we are trying not to worship we talk about quitting like smokers do— “next week” “after this trip” “when I found the love of my life on a dating app” we make promises to each other the way people talk about leaving a bad relationship while still keeping their toothbrush ready by the sink we dream of flip phones— clamshells of another life decorated with glitter and stones and dangly   little charms the pixels soft enough to forgive our youthful acne and ringtones we bought by texting MTV the only calls we received were from our mother, telling us to   come home,   dinner was on the table there was no algorithm to drill us into compliance no one to tell us:   you are behind     you are cutting your onions wrong       you need to buy this thing (and this one and this one)         you are a rat girl joan didion girl soft girl clean girl iphone face never enough girl we say: let’s go camping   just us   and a map   and maybe a knife just in case (but what if we lose our way what if someone dies what if I see something beautiful?) we delete tiktok but never at the same time so someone is always missing out on the joke we say we cannot meet the modern world without a screen plastered to our hands— this second self we cradle like a   self-inflicted wound and maybe we’re right maybe we’re too far gone maybe this thing knows how to be us better than we do somewhere, there is a version of me who dared to take the leap she knows the constellations   by name her eyes are soft from looking   outwards i wonder what she wears i wonder what her hobbies are, and how she finds her way i wonder if she’s ever bored   or late     or lonely       without the glow to hold her and i hate it—      i hate it this tether this glass ghost this thing too big to understand i’m tired and my window to the world has no curtains     i want to close my eyes     i want to become very         very            very               small -- Quirine Brouwer

for me it is getting out of the worlds of separation, never to return again. Exiting the repetitive cycle of reincarnation and rebirth, and also exiting the worlds of separation altogether. That is the perspective from the me within the relative, the me inside the dream. And it stems from the awareness that being stuck in the worlds of separation is a dream, it feels real but it has no substance and it's time to wake up. at the level of the Absolute, this has already happened. at the level of the Absolute i never really entered the worlds of separation. At the level of the Absolute it was a passing thought that was instantly dismissed as, well, untenable.

yes. if i had to say right now, i would say the purpose (for me) of being human in a limited duality physical universe is to figure out how to get out. And then put it into practice and actually do it. And yes to recognize the truth of who i am. So then (for me) waking up from the dream, dissolving the universe, exiting the worlds of Separation includes letting go of all belief in Separation. When i no longer believe in it, then i withdraw and remove my attention from it. When i withdraw my attention, then i no longer maintain it. And it dissolves.

yes. and since i created this limited duality universe which i inhabit, then I can uncreate it. this does not affect anyone else's universe. they have to each get out of their own dream. even traditional theology recognizes this. God created the universe, except its NOT past tense, it is present tense. God is literally creating and sustaining the universe every second.

yes. OK . Relative and absolute makes sense. Relative is duality and time and space and form and temporary it comes and goes so is not the real me. Absolute is permanent and is the real me. However there is a codicil to this part: Yes and No. From the perspective of within the illusory universe, Awareness/Dao is present and not separate from physical material universe. The universe is reliant upon and needs Dao for its existence. There can be no universe without the Dao. The reverse however does NOT hold true. Awareness/Dao does NOT rely on the universe. The Dao does NOT need the ten thousand things. The Dao precedes the ten thousand things. For instance If human me is having a dream, that dream only exists because of me. when i wake up the dream is gone. But I am still here. I don't need the dream to exist. The dream does need me to exist. Thanks Stirling! it is a joy to even be able to have a conversation about this stuff

I think it was a passing thought. "what it would be like if...." and boom the material universe and everything in it emerged. Then it was like "oh that doesn't really work does it. scratch that idea. duality, nah. time space and form, nah." but the cast of characters in the universe are still stuck in the same repetitive cycle over and over. until they can get out. if i am having a bad dream the way to get out is to wake up and realize oh it wasn't real. Poof the dream goes away it has no substance. But when i am still in the dream it feels oh so very real. The infinite is unlimited. the material universe is limited. that's why it doesn't work. Awareness/Dao is not limited to expressing only as a limited duality physical universe. It surely expresses in myriad other ways. Becuase it is after all unlimited.

3. Post from stirling with my comments this post jumps out at me because it says to me that the universe and everything in it is built with our thoughts. Thinking of something causes it to appear. Our infinite self contains the ten thousand things (universe and everything in it) but is not affected by the illusory world. It is a passing thought and no more real than the thoughts or dreams we have as humans. When we are in a dream it feels real. But it is not.

i may start a different thread on this, because there is also a recent post from stirling that also touches on this that I want to discuss further. The end point of "all physical objects" are contained within and are contents of my infinite self (or consciousness) is that the finite physical universe itself and everything in it, is also contained within my infinite non-physical self. which means just as every person has their own "thoughts" that other people are not privy to, has their own dreams that other people do not see or inhabit. Then every person has their own universe that other people do not see or inhabit. That is where this leads and that is what I want to hear more on. Cut to the chase, the universe is a thought of mine (or a dream) and has no more substance than a thought or a dream. What is finite and limited and comes and goes is NOT real. What is infinite no beginning no end no form no space no time IS real. That is my point of awareness. I AM THAT. off i go to start the thread, i will copy and paste the quote from Mark and the quote from stirling to launch the discussion. Thank you.

Thank you for providing more detail on your views and frame of reference. Bold above "complete and absolute control over nature" is an excellent nutshell overview and summary of purpose. And the question in bold above "The gist of what you are saying is basically what?" invites me to also summarize. Hmmmm. That is a useful exercise. If the central focus of magic is control then the central focus for me is Source. longer version? let's try some out. Awaken from the dream. Before thinking, before thought. The part of me that is infinite. Unborn, uncreated, unformed, unchanging, no beginning, no end, no time, no space, no form, always was, always will be. We see things differently and that's OK. There is a path and a practice for everyone. We have free will to choose from the vast array on offer.

which brings us to intention, motivation, reasons for practicing this or that path. Clearly identifying that may be a way to illustrate some of the differences, and to address some of the questions being asked. The words I highlighted in bold in the post above speak to intention, motivation, reasons for practice. In other words "what's driving the bus" for us personally, in practicing this or that path. For each item in bold given for the path of magic, i am going to provide parallel examples of how that may be seen in the traditions I know from within. NOTE: This is NOT given as a challenge to anyone's path, nor is it for debate, arguing, criticizing any other path, or one upmanship. It is ONLY an illustration of how the points raised may be seen in another tradition (two other traditions, the ones i am most familiar with and have directly experienced). And the comparison is provided in the spirit of seeking to understand each other's views from within different paths (magic focused, or Divinity focused or Awakening focused) "The whole point of learning is to abolish fear. " "do things beyond what everyone in the world sees." "Thats the whole point... you learn so you can do." The whole point is non-doing, is stillness, is cultivating pure awareness The whole point of learning is to draw closer to the Divine and discern God's will in my life The whole point of learning is to exit the cycle of rebirth The whole point of learning is character development and self improvement by cultivating virtues I learn so i can dissolve the belief in separation and Awaken to the infinite me The focus is on dissolving the material world, awakening from the dream "Why is it so dangerous to want to learn about what one can truly do and accomplish in the phenomenal world? " "a balanced person with common sense already knows the wisdom of when to not do things" the wisdom of when not to do things includes not engaging in magic. Magic is avoided because it puts me in harm's way. It is dangerous because it summons lesser entities. It is a distraction and diversion and obstacle and barrier to Awakening. As above, so below. Just as there are parts of town i don't wander around in "bad neighborhoods" because unsavory entities do not have my best interests at heart. just because entities are dead, invisible, or non-physical does not make them smart, safe, or trustowrthy. Nothing to do with fear. everything to do with common sense, discernment, safety, and wisdom. "ultimate freedom as one has learned ultimate influence and control of oneself at the very real and absolute level. " Surrendering control, not seeking more of it. Let go and let God. Let go of attachments. Ultimate freedom is I will to do Thy will. Ultimate freedom is pure awareness. Ultimate freedom is observe and let it go. The very real and absolute level is no-time, no-space, no-form and the material world (the universe and everything in it) is a dream. " bring your dead best friend back to life" nope, not a goal. If i petition God through prayer, then the Divine can work miracles. My focus is on relationship with the Divine. My focus is on Source. Thank you Jadespear for very thoughtful discussion on various elements of this topic.

I don't believe there is a correct perspective on emotions. Every individual and every tradition has a perspective. All have value and validity to varying degrees. The perspective that is most effective and useful for me depends on me, most of all. I see emotions as energy, manifesting and moving through body, speech, and mind. They are a product of many factors - physical, mental, environmental, cultural, generational, karmic, celestial, and so on. Emotions can have profound effects on, and be held or trapped in, body, speech, and mind. They affect us with or without our knowledge. The relationship to the body is easily demonstrated by the connection between emotions and illness and by the effects of physical exercise, nutrition, hormonal, elemental balance, and illness or injury on emotional states. Trauma in particular can cause deep seated and sub-conscious emotional content to be fixed in the body, in the nervous system in particular. David Bercelli's work on this is useful and interesting. The relationship to our “speech” (this can refer to our breath, our energetic states, as well as inner and outer voices and stories we tell ourselves and others), is easily seen through our recurring stories, through how our breath affects and is affected by our emotions, through how our energy level is profoundly affected by our emotional state. Dealing with emotions can take many forms - psychotherapy, dream work, body work, qigong, martial practices, drugs, art, spiritual practices, EMDR, Bercelli's trauma release exercises, etc... I work mostly with Bön Buddhist methods at this point though I have some experience using Daoist techniques as well as a form of cognitive behavioral therapy called ACT (Acceptance Commitment Therapy). In the Bön tradition there are three types of approaches. The Sutric approach (path of renunciation) is similar to what Krenx describes above - a combination of mindfulness and the use of various practices known as antidotes to negative emotions that primarily involve working with the mind. The second group of methods, Tantra (path of transformation), involves a variety of things - rituals, prayers, mantra, visualization, concentration, breathing, postures, and body movements can all be used to transform negative emotions into positive qualities like compassion and equanimity. Finally there is the Dzogchen approach (path of self-liberation). This path sees all of life experience as being "perfected." Meaning it is as it is (I feel a sort of divinity there) and there is nothing inherently wrong with it, almost like there is nothing inherently wrong with what happens in our dreams, or even death itself, they are simply an expression of the inner workings of body, speech, and mind and karma, causes, and conditions. In the dzogchen method, you learn how to recognize, connect with, and abide with stability in the natural state of their own mind which is open, unbounded, and clear. It is a discovery of a state of being that cannot be adequately described or defined. It is NOT anything we make happen under any particular conditions, it is not the result of anything we do, say, even understand, but it’s not hard to get a taste if you look properly and once you recognize, you need to become very familiar. The Tibetan word for meditation is gom which means to become familiar. When emotion arises, either spontaneously or by invitation, they are fully and directly experienced in body, speech, and mind without engagement of any sort, just openness and awareness. Leave it as it is! Emotions need to be fed by our engagement, or by suppression/repression, to be maintained and strengthened. If we are able to remain connected to our natural state of mind (one of my teachers refers to it as pure and perfect mind) and allow the emotions to simply be as they are, they soon run their course and "self-liberate.” This applies to positive and negative emotions alike. Feel great? It will change at some point, I promise! Feel horrible? It will change sooner or later, one way or another - this is impermanence. We all have that experience. Doing this once is generally not a permanent solution, however. They continuously return but over time they weaken and eventually liberate themselves with no effort or directed attention whatsoever. Not sure any of this will be useful to you but it's fun to write about sometimes. Good luck on your path!

Past lives carry forward in the "permanent atoms" so that each life builds on the skills and learnings of the past rather than starting from zero. Also the relationship energy fields carry over. Last week a friend called me to say that one of her friends had just had a child. So I looked remotely at the child and asked: how did you feel when you saw her? She said: I burst into tears. I replied: the girl was your mother in a past life. Parallel life connections are often experienced in dreams. For example in a dream I saw a cousin that I had not seen for several decades. She was too young in the dream so I asked her if she was my cousin in this timeline. She said she was. At the same time I saw my deceased mother near the cousin. My mother was far too young. Learnings get transferred through dreams

When I read that, my head tingled. So now I must pursue that vastness When I was first shown Beingness, in a dream, I woke and found the naming "the sphere of Beingness" was acceptable to it, but now I see that naming is partial It looks now like a vast number of spheres in a network - each sphere connected to perhaps 12 other spheres. There is some sort of harmonic operating the network. (I am in a choir and have recently seen how harmonics on various planes permit resonance with much greater entities) I am inclined to wait a little to see if the Beingness Harmonic is interested in making use of me

When I am a character in a computer game yes there is all sorts of purpose, all sorts of adventure, challenges, it is mesmerizing. Even on the mundane human level we recognize that, that is why we get sucked into it. We keep going on to the next game and the next. It is very satisfying on many levels: intellectually, creative, requires intelligence, setting up systems and strategy, figuring out how it works. yes relationships too, teams and guilds and alliances. And it keeps us coming back for more. Same with the universe and everything in it. It keeps us coming back for more and it engages us for the same reasons. but at some point after so many eras and eons reincarnating, thousands of lifetimes or tens of thousands, at some point we realize enough is enough. it is repetitive. it is the same thing over and over. and we say get me out of here. It is not real. The real me is the core of my being, the stillness the silence. that is my ticket out. the universe and everything in it is enticing. it is seductive. it is engaging. it is fascinating. we have forever to hang around and explore it all, map and define and learn about and interact with the systems, the life forms, it is a feast and we keep coming back. until we don't want to anymore. so in asnwer to question posed, i dont see that as a must for me. Where is it written that i must have relationships or that i must have purpose? (good question by the way Lairg, good scenario to posit there for consideration). Let me think about it a little differently. what is my purpose at this momentfor my life? From the perspective of my infinite Self (the part of me that emerged from Beingness and never left Beingness and is Beingness [in the parlance that has been discussed as frame of reference with Lairg], from that standpoint my purpose in this incarnation is to figure out how to get out altogether, to completely exit the cycle of re-incarnating at all ever. For me then the universe and everything it (I think we are calling that Existence) poofs is gone and wafts away. It has no more substance or reality than a dream does. It goes where any dream goes when I wake up. It is not real. Beingness is real. So i hang out there in no-time and no-form. [at other times i would have answered a different purpose for myself, either purpose for this lifetime, or for reincarnating over and over in general.] good question. i'm curious to hear from others on this. How about you Lairg how would you answer regarding what you see as your purpose. good stuff here.

the earth and the galaxies and the waters and outer space and the universe and everything in it will be gone poof but the dreamer remains. Unformed, unborn, unchanging, no space, no time, no form, no beginning, no end, always was, always will be. That is the dreamer. And that dreamer is me. that is who we are. that is what is real. [in my frame of reference anyway; different set of parameters for each person in their own universe] where I am holding right now is how to get out. The me in the dream, in the computer game needs to activate that which will get me out. Another correlation with regards to paths of religion and spirituality, is discarding the attachment to the universe and everything in it, and that includes most important of all, the attachment to the belief that it is real. Another belief that has anchored me here is the system of reincarnation itself and karma, my belief in that. Dissolving that too. i do think there are maps left for us how to get out in the many traditions and paths that provide various guides to Enlightenment or Awakening. They have left a variety of Exit signs lit up to show the way.

Interesting post . You are not the 'first' ; Long time ago BEFORE the dream time .... Ungud earth snake rainbow serpent is alone on the earth , which is uniformed , just a disc of sand with Ungud on it . he looks up to the heavens and sees Wallenganda , black snake , the dark river running through the Milky Way , and he sees all the 'ooh-aahs' ( the stars ) that are the campfires of her children , camped along the riverbanks of their mother . Wallenganda notices Ungud looking at her : " What you looking at ! ? " " I am looking up at you and your children ." " Why you looking ! ? " (in some Aboriginal cultures ; rude to 'stare' ) " because you look beautiful ... up there , with all your children ... and the river .... poor Ungud, down here all alone , I got no river , I got no children .... poor Ungud ." So Wallenganda felt sorry for him , she spat some of her water down on Ungud , Ungud gathered it together and dived down through the sand taking the water with him and left a big sandhill behind that turned to stone ( Uluru - Ayres Rock ) . he took the water underground and held it together ( the Great Artesian basin ) and he curled up in that water and went to sleep ... and had a dream . And in that dream he multiplied himself and all the Ungud's went out in different directions and the water followed ,, he surfaced and made springs, he dived back down and made soaks until eventually they all came toi the edge and went out and the water flowed behind them and made the great Sea . And eventaully the wandjina ( associated with rain ) appeared , and life and animals and people .... all part of Ungud's dream . One day, that old snake down there dreaming will wake up ! You, me , all of this , finished . All a dream ... but a good dream . Earth's Water Fallen from Outer Space | LAEO GIS Analytics