Leaderboard

Isaac Asimov had written about 3 laws of robots which was very famous and was intended to be a guideline for Robotics. The Three Laws, presented to be from the fictional "Handbook of Robotics, 56th Edition, 2058 A.D.", are: A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. But the Ukraine war changed all these. Robots or AI behind it are being commanded to harm human being. So there is no restraint or possibility of self restraint from then on. Whether uprisings arises out of their own "thinking" or directed by some human has the same effect.

I find it easier to level this down to a personal level: I cannot learn two or more systems at one time, because inevitably I end up doing similar things parallel. Focusing on one system, I can go deeper. Are there exceptional people that can do more? Absolutely. Is there a risk for less-than-exceptional people that they collect systems without full benefit? Well, I could list systems I have tested but quit practicing. I got some out of it though, different teachers from different methods have different ways of explaining things, and that made me understand my main practice better.

Now ... the opposite ; pure sword : pure mind . ' Twilight Samurai ' - 'Old Twilight ' as the other 'higher rank ' Samurai called him ( behind his back ) ; past his prime , about to set, tattered and worn , no use but as a lowly storage clerk .... but was he ? ? ? Eg. He was advised NOT to pointlessly keep looking after his old and demented Mother - in - law ... '' your wife is dead , you have no obligation '' ... it was suggested he tie her to a pole and leave her in the back of his garden . That is why he was 'poor' , he spends his money looking after others . He does several righteous deeds .. that go against 'tradition' , but he knows what is right to do . Eventually it gets out that he is more than he seems , as he has to protect a friend from being killed .... then he demonstrates proper 'use' of his sword .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twilight_Samurai It is interesting to watch both films ( both are very well made and acclaimed ) and see both sides of 'sword philosophy ' . I prefer : ' He who lives by the sword ( righteously ) shall have a righteous life ... and death . He who lives by the sword ( badly ) will have a bad life and a bad death . '

Why don’t you have access to Sifu Terry? You can easily tag him in the Flying Phoenix thread or send him an email to ask

Mixing is not recommended until you are good at one system. May be doing SOME TTP exercises is good along with FP (what Terry recommends btw). Kunlun and FP energies might be not compatible. I know that even mixing Sunn Yee Gong and FP is not good idea until you are good at one of them

I've been listening to Rob Coons on the MCO. I like his approach since it seems well grounded in texts. His issue seems to be with forcible intention, which is not what BW is going for and I think she explicitly mentions this. Her approach seems to be grounded in Dao Yin as opposed to Neidan. One interesting thing about her overall approach is her general emphasis on non-fixation and dissolution of the self, which would put her in a different camp than other popular camps. I suppose some people may wish to argue that Dao Yin is false or harmful, but if so, I wonder if would have survived so long and had so many adherents. It seems more that Dao Yin uses post-heaven methods for post-heaven gains. Of course, a lot of popular neidan also strikes me as post-heaven cultivation, despite assurances that it is not.

The question is of course wrong. MCO is merely one of the methods in Neidan. How is it not real? The method itself is absolutely real. It is written in books, having people practise it for centuries. As you say, the question should be does it work as intended, does it work well, doesn't it work without too much costs or side effects..... This is a very good insight. The major aim of all kinds of trainings is to ensure haphazard, by chance happenings to be dependable, achievable as and when required.

Yes I try to just let the text speak for itself without much in the way of my own or modern narrative. I just find it works better this way. I think someone like Crowley who was creating his own system (inspired in this case by Egypt) placed things within his own understanding - even creating new terms like Hadit and so on. I think this is perfectly valid if you have a high level of realization (which I don't). So I tend to be cautious. The Shadow is clearly very important to the Egyptians but while a lot is written about the Ba and the Ka, even though the shade or shadow turns up in all the underworld literature there is very little in the way of explanation. So I have to rely on insight and intuition. However I did find one interesting thing. In the Tomb of Ay (I think) the four entities, the Ka, the Ba, the heart and the Shadow are shown being held by the four Sons of Horus. So there is a correspondence there. And I am confident of a correspondence between the Sons of Horus and the four elements of Hermetic thought. This would suggest that the heart/body is related the Earth, the Ka to Water, the Ba to Fire and the Shadow to Air. Which fits with shwty (shadow) and Shu god of air. So I am leaning to consider the Shadow as a conceptual body or mental body perhaps. Yes. Although the Egyptians had a very idiosyncratic view of the solar cycle. I think they would have expressed this as East - West, East - West again. Midnight and midday would be when North and South conjoined (like the uniting of heaven and earth). The midnight practice would have been the union of Osiris and Ra (Khepri) and the noon would be the winged disk. I used to do a daily dawn and sunset practice. Perhaps what happens at midnight is about deep dreamless sleep. Passing through doorways is a key Egyptian concept both in the Dwat and for entering and exiting the dwat and the horizons. Absolutely yes. I wish I could do it! That's interesting. Like avoiding the second death as the Egyptians would have it. In fact the text on the reverse Spell 30b will address this in part perhaps.

'science' is gross

The modern meaning of the term seems to be in conflict with how it developed. Sighs. It's like being at work, in psychological theory some of the terms are so mixed in meaning that communication breaks down.

A pointer relevant to this and your other non violence thread

In traditional Chinese philosophy, qi can be interpreted as a kind of substance in this metaphysical meaning—though it’s not a perfect fit with Western categories, and Chinese thought often prioritizes process over static being. Here’s a structured breakdown: Underlying Role of Qi: Qi is the foundational “stuff” or dynamic substrate that underlies all manifestations in the cosmos. In the Huainanzi (2nd century BCE compilation of Daoist and cosmopolitan ideas), qi is the primordial medium from which heaven, earth, and the myriad things (wanwu) emerge and to which they return. It “stands beneath” appearances by animating forms: mountains, rivers, human bodies, and even thoughts are temporary coagulations or patterns within the flow of qi. Before form (xing), there is qi; it condenses into matter (like yin-qi forming solids) and disperses into ether (yang-qi as vaporous energy). This makes it the persistent ground for change—e.g., a tree’s growth, decay, and rebirth are shifts in qi’s configurations, not illusions atop a void. Comparison to Western Substances: Aristotelian Parallel: Aristotle saw substance as primary being (prote ousia), with matter (hylē) as the indeterminate substrate shaped by form (eidos). Qi echoes this as a proto-material force: in neo-Confucianism (e.g., Zhang Zai’s Correcting Youthful Ignorance, 11th century), qi is the “Great Void” (taixu) that isn’t empty but filled with this subtle substrate. It’s what endures beneath accidental changes—like how a statue’s bronze persists while its shape alters. Vs. Cartesian or Lockean Views: Unlike Descartes’ res extensa (extended substance) or Locke’s primary qualities (solid, impenetrable stuff), qi isn’t rigidly material or dualistic. It’s more fluid, akin to Spinoza’s single substance (Deus sive Natura) where attributes (like energy flows) express an underlying unity. Qi “stands beneath” by being the monistic principle: all dualities (yin-yang) arise from its movements. Evidence from Chinese Texts: In the Yellow Emperor’s Inner Classic (Huangdi Neijing), qi is the root of life: “When qi gathers, there is life; when it scatters, there is death.” It underlies physiological appearances (symptoms, pulses) as the invisible essence—much like how Kant’s noumenon underlies phenomena, though qi is immanent (within the world) rather than transcendental. Daoist alchemy (neidan) treats qi as the “original breath” (yuanqi), the substratum refined through practices to reveal immortality. It’s not superficial energy but the hypostatic ground of being. Limitations and Nuances: Process Over Static Substance: Chinese ontology (e.g., in the Yijing or Book of Changes) emphasizes transformation (bianhua) via qi, not eternal unchanging substrates like Plato’s Forms or Aristotle’s unmoved mover. Qi itself transforms, so it’s a “substance-in-flux”—more Heraclitean (everything flows) than Parmenidean (being is one and unchanging). Calling it a pure substance might Westernize it too much; it’s often paired with li (pattern/principle) in Song dynasty thought, where li is the “what” and qi the “how.

It is a source of on-going wonder to me that people believe that physical processes are necessary for spiritual unfoldment. It does help to keep the spine straight, sleep in good places and eat good food, but those are but adjuncts to the use of right relationship and right intent

I would disagree with that. To answer that and what you wrote below: You do what I do and MCO not only becomes dust in the wind but the last of your concerns. As I always state in these matters: Find out for yourself.

I'm curious, who has the time to delve deeply into two systems?

Quantum mechanics, subatomic physics, the study and applications of light, time reversal, complex numbers, string theory all, among many other areas of inquiry, go beyond the gross physical.

Substance in the real meaning of the term.