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#33 Walker

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 11:29 AM

Just raise two issues :

 

1) WuLiu says that  an abrupt , strong erection  (of course here referring to male practitioners' )  in our meditation, is a symtom  of the birth of  Yang (' 陽生' ) ; and , even though we are told  that it happens in a mindless status ,  such a claim is still doubtful , and already criticized by many Taoist masters .

 

Hi Exorcist... Can you please explain to us in more detail what these criticisms entail? Do they mean that the abrupt appearance of an erection during a mindless state is unlikely to occur, or that such an occurrence does not indicate the birth of yang? Which, if any, texts contain these criticisms?


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氣也者,虛而待物者也。唯道集虛,虛者,心齋也。


#34 MooNiNite

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:48 PM

it does happen in mindless state, or atleast not mindful. it is the mind that sends energy. one can let these thoughts pass or get lost in them


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#35 exorcist_1699

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 10:55 AM

Hi Exorcist... Can you please explain to us in more detail what these criticisms entail? Do they mean that the abrupt appearance of an erection during a mindless state is unlikely to occur, or that such an occurrence does not indicate the birth of yang? Which, if any, texts contain these criticisms?

 

No, a mindless erection can  occur  when we  succeed in  having  our  jing leakage stopped for  2- 3 months  plus  we can sustain an emptied mind  , say more than 5 minutes..; it , of course, is one of the features of the birth of Yang, but should not be viewed as the main one.



#36 opendao

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 11:14 AM

No, a mindless erection can  occur  when we  succeed in  having  our  jing leakage stopped for  2- 3 months  plus  we can sustain an emptied mind  , say more than 5 minutes..; it , of course, is one of the features of the birth of Yang, but should not be viewed as the main one.

 

Where is this from? what WLP book you read to make such interesting conclusions about "birth of Yang" and "likeage stop"?


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#37 opendao

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:33 PM

Wuliu's over-use of Buddhist sayings and  inappropriate introduction of some of Buddhist Sutra not only make Buddhists unhappy

 

Can you shortly mention what sutra(s) are not introduced properly in Wu Liu book(s) and why? 

 

Don't get me wrong , I respect Wuliu , its masters and writings , a lot ;  only saying that it collects all the best from Taoist's , is far from the truth..

 

Please continue and say what was missed in WLP syllabus, and what good schools were not covered? Why do you think these schools are "good"? what is their real difference with WLP? And please also mention the source of your knowledge about WLP syllabus, because afaik it wasn't published openly, so I really have no idea how you can prove your "far from the truth" statement. 


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#38 damdao

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:56 PM

I think that the "mindless erection" is a tenet from Longmenpai (and as that is found in Zhao Bichen's books) and in some teachers from Wudanshan. In the line of Wang Liping theres is something called "live hour zi" and seems similar to that.

Is the 伍柳仙宗 Wuliuxianzong a good source for studying Wuliu teachings?



#39 LaoZiDao

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 02:55 PM

Zhao Bichen to my understanding had knowledge but had a limitation by not having complete methods, thus did not achieve high level.

#40 exorcist_1699

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 09:29 AM

Can you shortly mention what sutra(s) are not introduced properly in Wu Liu book(s) and why? 

 

 

---------------------------

 

In Liu Hua Yang's Hui Ming Jing (慧命經) , he quoted a lot from the Buddhist classics :  the  Śūraṅgama-sūtra (楞嚴經) ,Laṅkāvatāra sūtra (楞枷經) Avataṃsaka-sūtra (華嚴經)  , Heart sutra , Sixth Patriarch sutra...and give them some Taoist interpretation, some are correct, some are not appropriate ..

 

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#41 MooNiNite

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 09:37 AM

Zhao Bichen to my understanding had knowledge but had a limitation by not having complete methods, thus did not achieve high level.

 

you don't need methods to attain a high level


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I am the light I see in others.

I am the sun so high above.

I am the sky rich with color.

I am the roots of the earth.


#42 opendao

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:19 AM

In Liu Hua Yang's Hui Ming Jing (慧命經) , he quoted a lot from the Buddhist classics :  the  Śūraṅgama-sūtra (楞嚴經) ,Laṅkāvatāra sūtra (楞枷經) Avataṃsaka-sūtra (華嚴經)  , Heart sutra , Sixth Patriarch sutra...and give them some Taoist interpretation, some are correct, some are not appropriate ..

 

which ones? I won't bite you, I promise :-)


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#43 Harmonious Emptiness

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:29 AM

you don't need methods to attain a high level

 

From the author's introduction to Huiming Jing, by Liu Huayang, co-patriarch of the Wu Liu Pai. 

 

 

"The Tao of Huiming, which comes down from one hundred thousand years, profoundly secret and transmitted exclusively, is ultimately difficult to peer into and realize.  Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world [to practice its teachings].  As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth.  It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy - you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help - and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit.  This was my original intent in toiling bitterly to find a teacher and awaken to the Tao."

 

 

Being part of a school and community which strives together can certainly be an expedient, however, is he is or is he ain't saying that it's not a necessity?


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#44 alchemist

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 01:42 AM

I think that the "mindless erection" is a tenet from Longmenpai (and as that is found in Zhao Bichen's books) and in some teachers from Wudanshan. In the line of Wang Liping theres is something called "live hour zi" and seems similar to that.
Is the 伍柳仙宗 Wuliuxianzong a good source for studying Wuliu teachings?

Zhao Bichen's school is a non-orthodox branch of Wuliupai. Their practice differs from Wuliu methods.
Wan Liping has no relation to Wuliu.
Wuliuxianzong is Wu Chongxu's text, so yes, it is a good source for studying Wuliu teachings.
BR

Edited by alchemist, 11 August 2014 - 01:42 AM.


#45 alchemist

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 01:44 AM

 
you don't need methods to attain a high level

That depends on what a 'high level' is in your understanding. One does need right methdos to attain a high level in neidan.
BR

#46 Taoist Texts

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 01:50 AM

From the author's introduction to Huiming Jing, by Liu Huayang, co-patriarch of the Wu Liu Pai. 

 

  As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth.   

Excellent , excellent! Bears repeating.


世人个个学长年,不悟年年在目前,我得宛丘平易法,只将食粥致神仙。

#47 alchemist

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:04 AM

 
From the author's introduction to Huiming Jing, by Liu Huayang, co-patriarch of the Wu Liu Pai. 
 
 
"The Tao of Huiming, which comes down from one hundred thousand years, profoundly secret and transmitted exclusively, is ultimately difficult to peer into and realize.  Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world [to practice its teachings].  As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth.  It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy - you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help - and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit.  This was my original intent in toiling bitterly to find a teacher and awaken to the Tao."
 
 
Being part of a school and community which strives together can certainly be an expedient, however, is he is or is he ain't saying that it's not a necessity?

He does not. A simple question: can you tell what, how and in which circumstances you need to practice from reading HMJ? I suppose you can not.
The reason why Wuliu Patriarchs are saying that they name some things openly is that the medieval Patriarchs are way more obscure. So Wuliupai texts are more clear than the medieval neidan classics, but that’s all. There are no methods described there.
BR

Edited by alchemist, 11 August 2014 - 02:06 AM.


#48 Taoist Texts

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:22 AM

From the author's introduction to Huiming Jing, by Liu Huayang, co-patriarch of the Wu Liu Pai. 

 

Being part of a school and community which strives together can certainly be an expedient, however, is he is or is he ain't saying that it's not a necessity?

 

Of course he says that in so many words

 

 

Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world [to practice its teachings].

He is not a lier.


世人个个学长年,不悟年年在目前,我得宛丘平易法,只将食粥致神仙。




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