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What is enlightenment?

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#17 C T


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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

I was hoping it would be today but unfortunately all I found was a pain in my back, I will try again tomorrow :lol:

:lol: :lol:

Om svabhava shuddha sarva dharma svabhava shuddho 'ham!
Om shunyata jnana vajra svabhava atmako 'ham! 
Om ah hum hra phat!
Om muni muni mahamuni Shakyamuniye svaha! 
Appearances are mind, mind is emptiness, emptiness is spontaneous presence, spontaneous presence is self-liberation.
(9th Karmapa)

The objects perceived by sentient beings 

are like the appearance of illusions;

Sentient beings themselves are in the nature of illusion

they all arise through dependent origination. - Nagarjuna

#18 konchog uma

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:47 PM

Reality doesn't have a beginingness and endness, human experience does.

i dunno, if the soul as karmic storehouse survives death to experience rebirth, where is the beginning or end of that experience?

I don't know for sure, but i suspect that after thousands of lifetimes, there is some sort of reabsorbtion into the All again.. so even though the soul survives to experience its karmic fruition, at some point it can become free of the cycle of birth and death and become.. well... destroyed in the absorbing flame of the Great Spirit. In my mind it might lose its individuality only to, after a period of time, become born an ignorant noobie soul again. But like i said, i have no idea. Just musings.

After knowledge there goes wisdom and after wisdom there's crown chakra that's the default "everything else that doesn't make sense" :lol:
Only first six chakras are inside the human body and the crown is the outside the body where there's no time, no self, no mind, and no nothing.

Also telling that reality is not logical is my thing :lol:

sorry to steal your thunder... i'll let you say it next time lol

the chakras are a great model for linear progression in that way, but i suspect that reality itself is still unreasonable and non-linear.. thats only the human construct that tries so so so hard to make sense.

Edited by anamatva, 11 April 2012 - 02:09 PM.

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#19 Aaron


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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:59 AM

Yeah ego is a pretty loaded term. I think much of your persona can be seen through so you can see that is not a such a serious thing worth fighting for, so you can relax your psychic structures so they are not as rigid or prone to absolute beliefs but you will always have an individual personality I think even if it loses it's form in meditation it will re-emerge in life in order to serve you. In daily life you need to navigate distinctions and preferences in duality even if the ultimate reality is oneness and non duality.

I have never met anyone enlightened or know of anyone living who is enlightened so for me to believe in permanent enlightenment it would have to be a faith based belief, I have met Boddhisatvas though who can genuinely give without expecting any reward in return and live through their hearts, and that seems to be the essence of where it's at from what I have seen so far in my life. Perhaps I shouldn't say that I don't believe in enlightenment though as that may exclude it as a possibility so I am open to it as possible but I have not seen any evidence of it so far.

I have been told that I am already enlightened but I need to go meditate to see if it's true, i'll report back once I find out.

I think this was a very honest explanation of the problems pertaining to the term "enlightened". When someone decides to define enlightenment, then it becomes less of a state of awareness and rather a position within society. The enlightened person, IMO, would not care whether or not others saw him as enlightened, rather they would be more concerned with acting in a way that is conducive to their enlightened experience.

I think you are right, no one alive is "enlightened", not in the sense that they have escaped the ego or the transient existence that we live in. The world is here and we are here. If one did escape it, then would we even be aware that they did so, would their existence even be registered by the unenlightened masses, since to escape the terms of reality would mean that everything they were and would be would also cease to be a part of this existence as well.

In regards to your original nature, it exists here and now, so in that sense you are enlightened, just not aware of it. If you want to become aware of your original nature, then that does require introspection and examination, but it is by no means a necessity to exist or continue to exist. Even if you do become aware of it, you will not become immortal, nor will you be able to continue to be the person that is so inextricably connected to the body that is you in the here and now. The ego dies, the only you that continues is the actual you that already exists and is everything that exists. In other words you are "It", but only "It" will exist forever, you as a perceived individual is transient and temporary.


#20 JustARandomPanda


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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:40 PM



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