what is "red Phoenix"

[Aetherous]

Someone I trust explicitly got zero juice out of him

 

It's supremely funny that you said "zero juice"...inside joke amongst kunluners. Maybe someone will understand what I'm getting at.

 

I got zero juice from Max too!

[Lucky7Strikes]

Someone I trust explicitly got zero juice out of him, that is good enough for me. But if I can locate him and he's willing when I am ready I'll go seek him out and get a demo in person as well.

 

I try to be careful what I fill my head with, as there are so many frauds out there.

 

 

 

 

Right whatever. He publishes pictures of glowing hands and disappearing bodies and talks about how a lightning strike opened his third eye, and starts production of a llamma dorje movie but he can't release scientific evidence because it clashes with his main focus?

 

LOL

 

 

 

 

Look man, if you went and you felt his orgasmo chi and it works for you cool bro. More power to you. I have a close friend told me he felt nothing at all from the man. I know and trust him, and his observation.

 

I don't want to fill my head with useless nonsense, so I look for systems that have valid scientific evidence supporting them and their teachings.

 

I've got several teachers I want to seek out and test myself when I have time and money to do so, Max is one of those people.

I don't think you are getting the point of my engagement here. I'm not here to debate with you whether or not Max is the real deal. That discussion's been done with even before you joined the forum. I'm more concerned with you declaring he is a fraud along with his students, that they are illegitimate or deceptive with no evidence but bunch of speculation and just one testimony from a friend who got no juice from meeting him at a seminar. So I guess the ones who actually met him and acknowledge at least that he isn't an out right fraud are all deluded or not as insightful as your friend, including me, scotty, -0-, winpro, taomeow, cat, camron, yoda, trunk, de-paradis, fiveelementtao, August Leo, and Jenny Lamb, on and on.

 

I was genuinely interested in why you thought Max was illegitimate. Turns out, as it has again and again with people who criticize him, you are just talking out of your ass. I just wanted to make this clear in case someone takes what you say with any seriousness.

 

As for the lightening, glowing hands, disappearing bodies stuff, that's really all just a sideshow, and absolutely unimportant, and really trivial compared to what he shares in person.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Thunder_Gooch]

I don't care who's gone to see max here, I don't trust their judgement, I haven't met them, I don't know them.

 

I trust my friend's judgement.

 

I trust my judgement.

 

I trust masters that have gone under the microscope to document their abilities.

 

If you think he's legit that's great! No seriously if you like what he has to offer you awesome sauce.

 

I'm not sold, and one of the few people I actually trust felt nothing at all from the man.

 

He reeks of commercial spiritual salesmanship, and that's a huge huge turn off for me.

 

I was struck by lightning and my third eye is fused open and my hands glow, and my students can disappear on camera, but I can't let scientists document said phenomenon, but I can make a full length feature film about me and crazy orgasmo chi powers.

 

Sorry dude if it offends you but my BS-o-meter has rolled over a few times over this guy.

 

Money talks and BS walks.

 

 

 

I don't think you are getting the point of my engagement here. I'm not here to debate with you whether or not Max is the real deal. That discussion's been done with even before you joined the forum. I'm more concerned with you declaring he is a fraud along with his students, that they are illegitimate or deceptive with no evidence but bunch of speculation and just one testimony from a friend who got no juice from meeting him at a seminar. So I guess the ones who actually met him and acknowledge at least that he isn't an out right fraud are all deluded or not as insightful as your friend, including me, scotty, -0-, winpro, taomeow, cat, camron, yoda, trunk, de-paradis, fiveelementtao, August Leo, and Jenny Lamb, on and on.

 

I was genuinely interested in why you thought Max was illegitimate. Turns out, as it has again and again with people who criticize him, you are just talking out of your ass. I just wanted to make this clear in case someone takes what you say with any seriousness.

 

As for the lightening, glowing hands, disappearing bodies stuff, that's really all just a sideshow, and absolutely unimportant, and really trivial compared to what he shares in person.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I don't care who's gone to see max here, I don't trust their judgement, I haven't met them, I don't know them.

 

I trust my friend's judgement.

 

I trust my judgement.

 

I trust masters that have gone under the microscope to document their abilities.

 

If you think he's legit that's great! No seriously if you like what he has to offer you awesome sauce.

 

I'm not sold, and one of the few people I actually trust felt nothing at all from the man.

 

He reeks of commercial spiritual salesmanship, and that's a huge huge turn off for me.

 

I was struck by lightning and my third eye is fused open and my hands glow, and my students can disappear on camera, but I can't let scientists document said phenomenon, but I can make a full length feature film about me and crazy orgasmo chi powers.

 

Sorry dude if it offends you but my BS-o-meter has rolled over a few times over this guy.

 

Money talks and BS walks.

Did Max do a demo on your friend? Or did he just attend his seminar. Because Max has said he never does demo on people not exposed to Kunlun energy.

 

Moreover since you don't trust masters who have not gone through scientific documentation, I guess you should also dismiss John Chang. John Chang never went through a specific scientific evaluation. People just went to see him with a camera. And they tried to document yin and yang chi without much success.

 

Didn't you read what I posted above? Max did go through scientific trials in Arizona and as a medic in the military. So did some of his students, one of whom was found to have her blood flowing irregularly plus other abnormal phenomena.

 

Also the movie wasn't Max's project. It was Chris's. And it never got finished or was sold for money. Also if you don't trust the people of the taobums community for their experience and contributions, what is your motive here? Tell people who you think is a fraud because they look like one?

 

All your line of reasoning is the real bullshit here. You're just trying to justify an ignorant comment you made.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Thunder_Gooch]

Did Max do a demo on your friend? Or did he just attend his seminar. Because Max has said he never does demo on people not exposed to Kunlun energy.

 

Moreover since you don't trust masters who have not gone through scientific documentation, I guess you should also dismiss John Chang. John Chang never went through a specific scientific evaluation. People just went to see him with a camera. And they tried to document yin and yang chi without much success.

 

Didn't you read what I posted above? Max did go through scientific trials in Arizona and as a medic in the military. So did some of his students, one of whom was found to have her blood flowing irregularly plus other abnormal phenomena.

 

Also the movie wasn't Max's project. It was Chris's. And it never got finished or was sold for money. Also if you don't trust the people of the taobums community for their experience and contributions, what is your motive here? Tell people who you think is a fraud because they look like one?

 

His practices might be valid, a lot of my friends love them. I don't think max can walk on water though like his inner circle students believe.

 

Honestly I didn't want to be drawn back into the debate, but someone dredged up a 2 year old topic to ask me a question, so I obliged them. I should have done so via a private message.

 

Let's see these studies on max if you have them. Hearing rumors of them isn't good enough. And if all it documents is blood flow abnormalities, I'm not interested.

Edited April 19, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[ralis]

Didn't you read what I posted above? Max did go through scientific trials in Arizona and as a medic in the military. So did some of his students, one of whom was found to have her blood flowing irregularly plus other abnormal phenomena.

 

 

This is nothing more than conjecture with no documents presented to the public for examination. Anyone can make grandiose claims and there are many who believe such claims. What ever happened in regards to questioning as opposed to being suckered into BS? Max has stated that his chi manipulation only works on his students.

 

What do you mean by irregular blood flows? Does the blood flow move backwards?

[Lucky7Strikes]

This is nothing more than conjecture with no documents presented to the public for examination. Anyone can make grandiose claims and there are many who believe such claims. What ever happened in regards to questioning as opposed to being suckered into BS? Max has stated that his chi manipulation only works on his students.

 

What do you mean by irregular blood flows? Does the blood flow move backwards?

Your damn right it's all conjecture. That was the point of my response to More Pie Guy, because him calling Max a fraud was a complete speculation.

[Cat Pillar]

Eh...I hesitate to get involved in this discussion.

 

As a really new student of Max's, I'm still evaluating the practices myself. But I was happy to pay the money for the seminar and travel expenses based on "conjecture" and "hearsay."

 

Max laid his hands on me during the seminar, and I didn't feel a damn thing. (although I was tweaking out in my chair from Kunlun at the time...I didn't FEEL anything from that either, but it sure as shit was doing something to my body.)

 

Of course, I also have the energetic sensitivity of a brick wall.

 

I respect your skepticism, More Pie, I just don't see the need for the level of aggression you seem to have towards Max. Don't take that as a judgment though, just my limited perspective based on limited interaction. I'm not you and you're not me...and I appreciate that you seem to respect that the practices themselves have worked for people and have merit.

 

Personally, I'm evaluating Max and his practices the only way I trust - direct experience.

 

So far, it's going pretty good.

[Lucky7Strikes]

His practices might be valid, a lot of my friends love them. I don't think max can walk on water though like his inner circle students believe.

Again, what differentiates the legitimacy of his practices and the man himself if you think Max is a liar and a fraud? If you think he and his students are all faking it in that video, what he teaches about the practices and their potential is also a lie. I don't have any ideas or strong opinions about what Max can do or can't do. That's never the emphasis of anything he teaches. Nor is it any of my main concerns. Max is very very down to earth when you meet him and if you listen enough you'll get the idea that he really really doesn't want to be in the position of a guru or a teacher. He says that in most (I have listened to four seminars) seminars.

 

IMO your approaching this entire issue with a different mindset than I am. You are judging Max as some teacher, because that is what you are looking for. I'm just defending him as a very respectable human being I know who has good intentions for others, who you have chosen to insult without much basis. I am very grateful to him for his willingness to share as much as he has. If you have done the practices and have opened your body enough, you truly realize how difficult it is to offer such practices to the world.

 

Honestly I didn't want to be drawn back into the debate, but someone dredged up a 2 year old topic to ask me a question, so I obliged them. I should have done so via a private message.

 

Let's see these studies on max if you have them. Hearing rumors of them isn't good enough. And if all it documents is blood flow abnormalities, I'm not interested.

I only mentioned the studies because you asked whether he had the "balls" to do them. Of course I don't have the documents. That's just a huge waste of time and effort on my part to go dig them out. Why? Because if you do the practices and do as he advises you'll see that 90% of it is true, it works, and if you have practiced enough you feel that his energy is real and powerful. So the probability that the rest of what he has shared is as honest and sound is more likely than not. I've done this practice for three years now on and off with my share of skepticism, and it's incredible. I'm blown away every time because of the benefits to my health and well being. And not once did I have Max somehow intrude in order to sell more snake oil. This is how you build trust in another person so that you don't have to go check everything he has said.

 

And to re-emphasize this point, Max doesn't demand anything form his students, in fact he told us that it's really unnecessary to see him but once to just learn the techniques. If you are interested in tangible documentation Max will show you some x-rays of his heart and the brain and tell you some stories. I don't think Max photoshops fake x-rays to impress students. Why the hell would he do that? To make money? He does two seminars a month on weekend trips. It's 300 dollars for nearly three whole days of practice for less than ten people. Yeah, great profit there. If Max was in it for the money or a following he could've easily set up a whole school with a hierarchy of followers and membership fees and bunch of Kunlun accessories, especially since the practice is a bliss practice and produces immediate results. But what does he do now? He teaches here and there from his home, maybe once or twice a month. I like that. He just wants you to learn the techniques and develop yourself. That's very genuine.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Thunder_Gooch]

x

Edited April 19, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Lucky7Strikes]

Look,

 

Someone I would trust with my life, tested him, and says the dude is a joke.

 

Sorry if that offends you, I trust him more than I would anyone I've never met in real life.

 

The guy has never submitted to scientific investigation, but makes himself out to be the next Jesus Christ.

 

I ain't buying it.

 

Sorry this seems so unreasonable to you.

Tested him? Be more specific. What kind of testing he do?

 

Have you ever met Max? Did your friend tell you Max was trying to make it so that he was the next Jesus Christ?

Edited April 19, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Thunder_Gooch]

Tested him? Be more specific. What kind of testing he do? Did he bring a whole group of your oh-so-honorable scientists with him?

 

Have you ever met Max? Did your friend tell you Max was trying to make it so that he was the next Jesus Christ?

 

 

I am tapping out, I don't think we can continue a reasonable dialog.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I am tapping out, I don't think we can continue a reasonable dialog.

.....

 

I am asking you a perfectly reasonable question. You haven't discussed at all what exactly your friend did to test Max. Isn't that reasonable to ask since his conclusion was that Max is a fraud? Did Max agree to perform a demo on him at all? What exactly was the interaction that prompted your friend, and consequently you, to this conclusion?

 

To be honest I don't think you have a clue about your friend's interaction with Max.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Thunder_Gooch]

.....

 

I am asking you a perfectly reasonable question. You haven't discussed at all what exactly your friend did to test Max. Isn't that reasonable to ask since his conclusion was that Max is a fraud? Did Max agree to perform a demo on him at all? What exactly was the interaction that prompted your friend, and consequently you, to this conclusion?

 

I've said all I care to say on the matter.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I've said all I care to say on the matter.

[Aetherous]

Max laid his hands on me during the seminar, and I didn't feel a damn thing. (although I was tweaking out in my chair from Kunlun at the time...I didn't FEEL anything from that either, but it sure as shit was doing something to my body.)

 

I can't speak for all that he does, but we did learn some of that stuff in the little training I've been able to do with him...like to help a person get into alignment (if we see and feel that it looks off, help adjust them physically into something that looks right...or if someone's spazzing out and going off into their own world, try to relax and calm them, bring them into center and awareness)...or there are methods that do specific things internally or energetically to help, and signs to look for of when to do them.

 

I barely know anything, unfortunately...but those ways of helping are super interesting to me. The effects are real.

 

A key thing to realize is that it's not a qi healing session. "A person heals themselves".

 

The work is happening internally within the practitioner...it's internal alchemy taking place, as a result of your own practice. Extra things that a person does can just help (and for many of it, anyone could help, doesn't have to be some adept practitioner). Many of those extra helping ways are contained within the other practices of the system already...

 

There's another effect, of 'teaching in presence' or the proximity effect to people who are going deep into their practice...helps us as well. So practicing with Max can be more effective than most of the days that we do it alone. For people (like me) who don't have kunlun friends that live nearby, it helps to practice in nature, near trees...

[Cat Pillar]

I can't speak for all that he does, but we did learn some of that stuff in the little training I've been able to do with him...like to help a person get into alignment (if we see and feel that it looks off, help adjust them physically into something that looks right...or if someone's spazzing out and going off into their own world, try to relax and calm them, bring them into center and awareness)...or there are methods that do specific things internally or energetically to help, and signs to look for of when to do them.

 

I barely know anything, unfortunately...but those ways of helping are super interesting to me. The effects are real.

 

A key thing to realize is that it's not a qi healing session. "A person heals themselves".

 

The work is happening internally within the practitioner...it's internal alchemy taking place, as a result of your own practice. Extra things that a person does can just help (and for many of it, anyone could help, doesn't have to be some adept practitioner). Many of those extra helping ways are contained within the other practices of the system already...

 

There's another effect, of 'teaching in presence' or the proximity effect to people who are going deep into their practice...helps us as well. So practicing with Max can be more effective than most of the days that we do it alone. For people (like me) who don't have kunlun friends that live nearby, it helps to practice in nature, near trees...

 

Yeah, I'm slowly coming to realize how much I still have to let go...so many expectations for what it "should" feel like or how it's "supposed" to work.

 

I haven't tried practicing in nature...nature is hard to come by in Houston. =\

 

I'm not sure if my post expressed accurately what I was wanting to portray...that despite not "feeling" anything, I could still tell that the practices were having an effect.

[ralis]

Again, what differentiates the legitimacy of his practices and the man himself if you think Max is a liar and a fraud? If you think he and his students are all faking it in that video, what he teaches about the practices and their potential is also a lie. I don't have any ideas or strong opinions about what Max can do or can't do. That's never the emphasis of anything he teaches. Nor is it any of my main concerns. Max is very very down to earth when you meet him and if you listen enough you'll get the idea that he really really doesn't want to be in the position of a guru or a teacher. He says that in most (I have listened to four seminars) seminars.

 

IMO your approaching this entire issue with a different mindset than I am. You are judging Max as some teacher, because that is what you are looking for. I'm just defending him as a very respectable human being I know who has good intentions for others, who you have chosen to insult without much basis. I am very grateful to him for his willingness to share as much as he has. If you have done the practices and have opened your body enough, you truly realize how difficult it is to offer such practices to the world.

 

 

I only mentioned the studies because you asked whether he had the "balls" to do them. Of course I don't have the documents. That's just a huge waste of time and effort on my part to go dig them out. Why? Because if you do the practices and do as he advises you'll see that 90% of it is true, it works, and if you have practiced enough you feel that his energy is real and powerful. So the probability that the rest of what he has shared is as honest and sound is more likely than not. I've done this practice for three years now on and off with my share of skepticism, and it's incredible. I'm blown away every time because of the benefits to my health and well being. And not once did I have Max somehow intrude in order to sell more snake oil. This is how you build trust in another person so that you don't have to go check everything he has said.

 

And to re-emphasize this point, Max doesn't demand anything form his students, in fact he told us that it's really unnecessary to see him but once to just learn the techniques. If you are interested in tangible documentation Max will show you some x-rays of his heart and the brain and tell you some stories. I don't think Max photoshops fake x-rays to impress students. Why the hell would he do that? To make money? He does two seminars a month on weekend trips. It's 300 dollars for nearly three whole days of practice for less than ten people. Yeah, great profit there. If Max was in it for the money or a following he could've easily set up a whole school with a hierarchy of followers and membership fees and bunch of Kunlun accessories, especially since the practice is a bliss practice and produces immediate results. But what does he do now? He teaches here and there from his home, maybe once or twice a month. I like that. He just wants you to learn the techniques and develop yourself. That's very genuine.

 

He shows x-rays of his heart and brain? Most people don't have the training to even understand what an x-ray shows.

[Aetherous]

He shows x-rays of his heart and brain? Most people don't have the training to even understand what an x-ray shows.

 

I've had enough training to know that the crystallizations I saw in his skull were totally abnormal. They are apparently like Tibetan Buddhist relics, which formed in him as a result of the practices.

 

But who cares?

[ralis]

I've had enough training to know that the crystallizations I saw in his skull were totally abnormal. They are apparently like Tibetan Buddhist relics, which formed in him as a result of the practices.

 

But who cares?

 

Amazing! Max has crystals in his head? To leap to the conclusion that whatever these deposits are, is a result of certain practices, is really stretching it!

[multiarms]

Whhhhewwwww! Holy shit, old school flame war.

 

The OP really got his money's worth with this thread

 

To get back to the original question, and summarize: "Red Phoenix" is a technique taught by Max as part of his Kunlun system. It's a seated meditation with an energetic element, and its centered on the brain. Max does not want the actual technique disseminated publicly which is why you won't see it described in detail on forums like this one. If you are interested, contact Max or one of his facilitators, or attend a seminar, for personal instruction.

[三江源]

.

Edited March 13, 2015 by 三江源

[jeffrito]

Does any one know where I could learn Red Phoenix in London. Or better still from a book or DVD?

[Aetherous]

Amazing! Max has crystals in his head? To leap to the conclusion that whatever these deposits are, is a result of certain practices, is really stretching it!

 

It's hardly leaping to that conclusion if you saw the xray yourself. Very clear that it's from the practices.

 

By the way, I said 'crystallizations'...you said 'deposits'. I have no problem using your terminology instead. Something unique is in there.

 

But once again, who cares? Does it make any difference to you if some guy has "deposits" in his skull that non-practitioners don't? It's not like the people who practice Kunlun do it because of that...

[寒月 Hanyue]

 

Your basic premise here, on which you base your assumption, is faulty. Therefore anything based on it is faulty.

 

It is a faulty premise to assume that because a person cannot feel something, that it is not there.

 

It is a faulty premise to assume that 'because I have felt other things, I should be able to feel this, and if I cant do so, it is not there."

 

The logic is not coherent.

 

It would be more honest to say " I have felt chi and transmissions so I know I am capable of feeling energy, and in this instance, with this person, I felt nothing. Therefore I have no idea what the nature of this frequency might be. It looks as though others have tuned into the frequency. Some more quickly than others. And I have felt nothing."

 

you might also go on to say

 

"this is potentially interesting, since in general I can feel energy in all living things. So this one is definitely outside my frame of reference."

 

Thanks Cat, this was helpful to hear but for different reasons ; )