don't quite buy it

[old3bob]

 

There is that saying that if there is something you don't like then its a reflection of what's in you,  or a problem of yours.  Well I don't quite buy that huge generalization, granted it may be true in some cases but not in others... hells bells does your introspective head hurt ?

 

Edited yesterday at 10:24 AM by old3bob

[steve]

I consider it an invitation and an opportunity. I do buy it in that sense because over time it has proven itself to be true... for me.

If it doesn't seem to be true in a particular instance, rather than write if off as wrong, I allow the possibility that maybe I just didn't discover the connection... yet.

The way I approach it is this - 

When something elicits reactivity in me, I turn not toward the thing that I "don't like" so much but toward what I am feeling - in my body, in the inner and outer words and stories, the feelings, memories, expectations, and so forth.

Almost invariably, I make discoveries that show me something about myself. 

I find a lot of value in that process.

YMMV

Edited Sunday at 05:43 PM by steve

[old3bob]

19 minutes ago, steve said:

I consider it an invitation and an opportunity. I do buy it in that sense because over time it has proven itself to be true.

If it doesn't seem to be true in a particular instance, rather than write if off as wrong, I allow the possibility that maybe I just didn't discover the connection... yet.

The way I approach it as this - 

When something elicits reactivity in me, I turn not toward the thing that I "don't like" so much but toward what I am feeling - in my body, in the inner and outer words and stories, the feelings, memories, expectations, and so forth.

Almost invariably, I make discoveries that show me something about myself. 

I find a lot of value in that process.

YMMV

 

If someone has worked out related types of karma on a subject then it is no longer in them, which does not mean they can't like it and thus fight for dharmic truth... Btw there was a world of hurt that Gandhi (and countless others over the ages) did not like and who thus fought for truth!!

 

Edited Sunday at 05:49 PM by old3bob

[stirling]

Reality is just reality. The world is just doing it's thing. Your "suffering" is created by your resistance to accepting the reality of this moment.

 

Quote

If you wish to see the truth
then hold no opinions for or against anything.

 

To set up what you like against what you dislike
is the disease of the mind.

 

When the deep meaning of things is not understood
the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail. - Tsin Tsin Ming, Seng T'san

 

The "deep meaning of things" in this case is having the Wisdom to see and rest in the Tao, or "emptiness". Being present with reality as it is now is "alignment" with the Tao.

 

The idea that what you like is "dharma", and what you don't like is "adharma" only exists in your mind. The suffering of attachment or aversion to what is happening is entirely yours. It is an entirely relative mental construct. 

 

A terrorist might decide that blowing up a marketplace full of women and children to resist his current government or religious leadership is a good thing. Another might think that action is an unspeakable horror.  Invading foreign nations, fighting world wars, genetic engineering - these are all things that have been called good OR bad depending on the person who observes. 

 

This doesn't mean we can't work to be kind, or support causes that bring peace and harmony to the world, but having some wisdom about the nature of reality CAN mean that we don't get lost in our dialog about attachment or aversion to the outcomes. It is folly to think that world will ever be entirely peaceful, or meet our personal requirements for what is "perfect". The world has always been like this, and always will be.

[Cobie]

 

6 hours ago, old3bob said:

There is that saying that if there is something you don't like then its a reflection of what's in you,  or a problem of yours.  Well I don't quite buy that huge generalization, granted it may be true in some cases but not in others...

I totally agree. And I think these “reflection” ideas are meant to be used to improve yourself; not to shut up other people.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 08:28 PM by Cobie

[old3bob]

 

Apathy is apathy not something high and mighty or deep...

 

[Nungali]

worse still is when some individual sets themselves up as such an adviser ... a sort of 'judgmental guru ' and also  individuals adopting it to project out onto others ;  'would be Louise Hay's'  ; to some unfortunate ; ''Oh, you stubbed your toe ? Why are you afraid of moving  forward ? '' 

 

I want to shove their judgmental little faces in it !   I remember once ,  being in our amenities block , we were flooded in , I had a double middle ear infection  - terrible and no medication . This New Age bitch walks in and asks what is wrong with me   ( as I am obviously in a great deal of pain  and hanging on to a sink to even be able to stand up )  I tell her , does she offer assistance , pain relief she might have at home ... any thing  even remotely kind ? NO ;

 

'' OH really ( and even in a smarmy , I am smart , look what I know about , voice  ) ... what is it you dont want to hear then ?''

 

Me '' I will tell you what I dont want to hear , some  inconsiderate new age, self appointed  'guru' scoring points on my  pain and suffering  so they can appear clever .'

 

I read once where someone asked their Rabbi about this ; if an accident or sickness might carry a  special message for you . The Rabbi said , of course it can , God works in all sorts of ways .  The person protested a bit and explained some things , like I mentioned above . The Rabbi was ; '' Wait a minute , I didnt understand you , what I said was true but are you saying some people are interpreting the meaning and significance of these for others ? What ! That's outrageous ! How dare anyone try to interpret or  give the meaning to someone else  about God's particular and private dealings with them ! '  That is between you and  God !  That isnt even the job of a Rabbi ! ''

[Cobie]

@Nungali Yes, I’m familiar with the problem with some of the laity in the church I go to. 
 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:43 PM by Cobie

[old3bob]

 

On a tangent about judgement;  I have to say that to me Master Jesus hit the nail on the head when He said to a gathering that was getting ready to stone a woman to death,  "let any among you without sin cast the first stone",  and none could. 

 

[liminal_luke]

It´s good to use our own irritations as an investigative tool to bring our own less-than-enlightened qualities to awareness.  Not so good -- outside of very special circumstances -- to use other people´s irritations to suggest they have a problem.  Most people don't take kindly to that maneuver.

Edited Sunday at 10:40 PM by liminal_luke

[Cobie]

 

8 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

… Most people don't take kindly to that maneuver.

Lol, too true. I never talked to Maddie again after she did that with me. 
 

 

[Nungali]

I wonder what the 'cosmic lesson' is for people that do that ?  

 

 

  

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I wonder what the 'cosmic lesson' is for people that do that ?  

 

 

  

Maybe you’ve got a problem just asking that.

 

 

[old3bob]

11 hours ago, Cobie said:

Lol, too true. I never talked to Maddie again after she did that with me. 
 

 

some say never say never.  (when the world and people are forever changing this and that way )

[old3bob]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

Maybe you’ve got a problem just asking that.

 

 

Maybe you've got a problem saying that just asking about  that could be a problem.  

[zerostao]

@liminal_luke

 

Hope you are safe, please check in if you can.

[liminal_luke]

46 minutes ago, zerostao said:

@liminal_luke

 

Hope you are safe, please check in if you can.

 

Doing fine, thanks zerostao!

[steve]

17 hours ago, Nungali said:

worse still is when some individual sets themselves up as such an adviser ... a sort of 'judgmental guru ' and also  individuals adopting it to project out onto others

 

I think this dynamic applies to things like dream interpretation, tarot, psychoanalysis, and many other areas.

Certainly there are archetypes and commonalities, but they only go so far, IMO.

I hope I don't come off that way with my reply above, that's not at all what I intended.

I do think everyone can benefit from this type of investigation, provided they're in a good place mentally. 

But I consider it a very intimate and individual process.

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Doing fine, thanks zerostao!

 

Glad to hear it Luke

[Haribol]

I don’t buy it either. Like, I do not like rape, therefore I am a rapist? Is that the logic here? 
 

I can understand the saying in a way where there might be a lesson in it (for god sake, I am not saying anyone deserves it or anything remotely similar, but let’s give one example: a person was raped, managed to heal and can know be a support for countless others because of that), or in the «all is one» sense, because if all is one then what you don’t like about others is indeed… things you don’t like about yourself. But no, I do not buy it either.

[Cobie]

 

17 hours ago, Nungali said:

I wonder what the 'cosmic lesson' is for people that do that ?  

  It’s merely cosmetic. 

 

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Apech said:

Maybe you’ve got a problem just asking that.

 

 

 

You would not have said that unless you have  ......     ' fear of   .......  psionic wave oscilations of quantum energy enobling the angelic inseprability of starfire . 

 

(     https://sebpearce.com/bullshit/  )  

 

 

What lesson do I need to learn from this  ? 

 

Come on man ...   channel it ! 

 

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

some say never say never.  (when the world and people are forever changing this and that way )

 

Should she have  ' turned the other cheek '  ? 

 

people that can not turn the other cheek , have fear of  being called to explore the quantum matrix itself as an interface between transcendence and karma. 

 

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

Maybe you've got a problem saying that just asking about  that could be a problem.  

 

All you people with problems  ( like Apech oldbob and Coby )  have a problem because you point out other's problems .

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, steve said:

 

I think this dynamic applies to things like dream interpretation, tarot, psychoanalysis, and many other areas.

 

YES !   I often tell people a dream is full of their own personal symbols interpreted in light of everything about themselves including 'intimate / inside ' knowledge  ... how is someone else going to add that into the interpretive mix ? 

 

Tarot especially , I read  publicly for years and did not use a 'prediction aspect' of it , I would look at and discuss the reading and if the person themselves felt to relate to anything in it to themselves , then we would talk about that . 

 

One classic example turns up here ... on the old now defunct Tarotfurum  one person insisted (  and it caused rather a bother for some time - controversy )  that this card  

 

 

 

6 of Cups 'happiness' -  this persons interpretation ... obvious !  ;  Child molesting !  ... everyone else was ... 

 

'' Its so obvious ; the evil little dwarf is offering the little girl some flowers , like they do ; flowers . sweets ... etc .  and the man in the background is walking away allowing it to happen . ''

 

Everyone was .... ummmmmm  .... perhaps that is a highly personal  interpretation  from some personal experience ?''   No No she angrily insisted and went through all the parts of the image to back it up .  people insisted it can not mean that . My contribution was ... well, it can ... for her !  In a reading I would give a general description ( that nearly all seem to agree on ) ;   a ( badly drawn ) man offers the shorter woman some flowers - happiness . Now IF the querent   starts saying ....  that looks like a child molester (or whatever ) then that conversation can be had . The danger ( especially with a suggestively vulnerable querent ) is when crazies like that person  do someone a reading ... the 6 of cups turns up and the reader goes ; '' OH-O ... its the child molesting card !  do you where your kids are that the moment ?'' 

 

Psycho analysis  ?   I spent about 4 hrs doing something like that with a fiend yesterday .. she has mammoth issues  ( actually being a child abuse victim )   at one stage when she got cheeky  and evasive and asked me what I was going 'to do about it '  ( jokingly ... it was a 'light ' session  ) I said ''I am going to hammer  the shit out of  you with  Socratic  dialectic ! ''

 

''What's that ! ? ''

 

'' I am going to keep asking you questions about what you say  and your own answers are going to give you your own solutions . ''

 

It probably should not be more than that . 

 

Quote

Certainly there are archetypes and commonalities, but they only go so far, IMO.

I hope I don't come off that way with my reply above, that's not at all what I intended.

 

people who do not  intend things   lack a quantum leap of perennial healing .        

 

https://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

 

 

Quote

I do think everyone can benefit from this type of investigation, provided they're in a good place mentally. 

But I consider it a very intimate and individual process.

 

That seems the consensus here . 

 

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Nungali

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

 

  It’s merely cosmetic. 

 

 

and what is the cosmic lesson for people that wear cosmetics ?