Don't worry be happy?

[stirling]

38 minutes ago, old3bob said:

I'd say thoughts about Spirit are constucts,  unconditoned pure and free Spirit is not...

The Great Tao can see the ten thousand but the ten thousand can not see the Tao through ten thousand layers.

(or something along those lines)

 

If it is unconditioned and pure, I think we agree. So, the Dao and "spirit" would be synonymous ?

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, justjoseph said:

You'll have to dumb it down for me Lairg

 

 

I will try to help here ... he is saying 'truth'  ( alone ) is  syncategorematic  . 

 

:)  

[justjoseph]

3 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

I will try to help here ... he is saying 'truth'  ( alone ) is  syncategorematic  . 

 

Ah, i see. Is that true though ?

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, justjoseph said:

Is that true though ?

 

These days it seems common to vote on what is true.

 

If only we could do meta-physical experiments to test what is true to what.

 

[Tommy]

7 hours ago, justjoseph said:

It depends on what truth you're talking about. Absolute truth is not decided upon, it is there regardless of you. Subjective truth is true for you but not necessarily for others, but it is not decided upon by you otherwise it couldn't be true. 

I haven't denied anyone's belief, not sure why you said that. 

I never said anything about white light coming out of people. 

My first comments to lairg were intended to address the problems i felt were with his approach, in no way was i denying his beliefs or methods.  

Sorry, but you put into question his method of validating his truth. That seemed to me that you denied his beliefs. I am probably wrong that you meant it that way. My apologies. His approach seemed logical? When in doubt to see if others see the same things??

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, stirling said:

 

If it is unconditioned and pure, I think we agree. So, the Dao and "spirit" would be synonymous ?

 

I'm not a Taoist so I can't really  say so for its doctrines or various schools,  yet i do paraphrase parts of it according to my limited understanding and what correlates to me...

 

Btw, we also have some points that are not easy to integrate imo, like how can there be what some folks call "impersonal enlightenment" when persons and compassion are involved which is personal...

[justjoseph]

7 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

These days it seems common to vote on what is true.

 

If only we could do meta-physical experiments to test what is true to what.

 

The problem is Lairg, you expect others have the same capabilities as you. You ask things of others like "see where the white light goes" or "go back on the timeline" not realising that just because you can do these meta-physical experiments doesn't mean everyone else can, so your method becomes less like a helpful person saying things and more like a guy just saying odd things. 

[Lairg]

Surely some Daoists can do metaphysical work

[justjoseph]

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

Sorry, but you put into question his method of validating his truth. That seemed to me that you denied his beliefs. I am probably wrong that you meant it that way. My apologies. His approach seemed logical? When in doubt to see if others see the same things??

I gave what i think to be reasonable criticisms of his approach. Denying his belief would be different i think.
I believe that Lairg believes what he's saying.
Thank you for apologising, no worries , i could probably have been clearer myself.
Yes, seemed logical, but i thought there were issues with it, as if he has another person like himself then he would get an echo chamber.

@Lairg
Surely.

Edited yesterday at 08:18 AM by justjoseph

[Bindi]

10 hours ago, stirling said:

 

The story you tell about how reality is. Religion, philosophy, scientific theories, myths, systems, etc. 

 

Throwing away scientific ‘stories’ Is not necessarily wise. The Dalai Lama, a fairly respected Buddhist, is quite interested in science - 

 

Quote

Not only have I sought to grasp specific scientific ideas but have also attempted to explore the wider implications of the new advances in human knowledge and technological power brought about through science. The specific areas of science I have explored most over the years are subatomic physics, cosmology, biology and psychology.

Tenzin Gyatso, the Dalai Lama https://www.dalailama.com/messages/buddhism/science-at-the-crossroads

 

I think reality is more interesting and more nuanced than just letting all stories go.

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, justjoseph said:

The problem is Lairg, you expect others have the same capabilities as you. You ask things of others like "see where the white light goes" or "go back on the timeline" not realising that just because you can do these meta-physical experiments doesn't mean everyone else can, so your method becomes less like a helpful person saying things and more like a guy just saying odd things. 

You take a leap of faith assuming that Laitg himself has the capabilities he claims. Put a claim to the test, the classic is ‘appear in my lounge room’ for people who claim special talents. But other tests might be better. Why would anyone just believe a claim without it being substantiated, unless you’re buying a bridge for sale? 

[old3bob]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I will try to help here ... he is saying 'truth'  ( alone ) is  syncategorematic . 

 

never thought this post would also have so many legs or words like "syncategorematic" which I'm still not all that clear about even after looking it up...  ;-)

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:02 AM by old3bob

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

You take a leap of faith assuming that Laitg himself has the capabilities he claims.

 

I was hoping someone would try one of the experiments I suggested

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

 

I was hoping someone would try one of the experiments I suggested

what are some of these experiments?

[stirling]

6 hours ago, Bindi said:

Throwing away scientific ‘stories’ Is not necessarily wise. The Dalai Lama, a fairly respected Buddhist, is quite interested in science.

 

No-one suggested "throwing away" anything. Stories are interesting avenues for looking at our biases, attachments and aversions at the very least. Science has it's own internally consistent logic, though our current models ARE starting to fray at the edges, just as the previous generations of models did. 

 

6 hours ago, Bindi said:

I think reality is more interesting and more nuanced than just letting all stories go.

 

My experience is that it is infinitely nuanced, just not in the way one might traditionally imagine it is.

[steve]

On 2/13/2026 at 6:46 AM, Bindi said:

Rising from the subconscious, untouched by subjective beliefs, dreams are as close as I’ve come to objective reality. 

 

Interesting assertions @Bindi, thanks for sharing.

I hope you don't mind a few questions to help me understand where you are coming from. 

You propose that dreams are completely independent of subjective beliefs.

Do you feel that our lifetime of conditioning, our assumptions and expectations, our life experience and its effects on our body, mind, and spirit have no effect on what arises in the heart/mind during sleep?

You suggest that dreams, which are limited to individual subjective experience, are the closest thing to your experience of objective reality.

That begs the question - how to define objectivity and reality? 

 

 

 

[old3bob]

 

I'd say many dreams are pretty much of the astral realms, and the astral realms can pretty much range much from A-Z,  or relatively high or low realms.   Visions from purer realms beyond the astral while asleep are another matter... 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by old3bob

[justjoseph]

10 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

I was hoping someone would try one of the experiments I suggested

Ok fine, tell me one to do and i will give it a sincere try and report back. 

Edited 18 hours ago by justjoseph

[oak]

2 hours ago, steve said:

 @Bindi

You propose that dreams are completely independent of subjective beliefs.

Do you feel that our lifetime of conditioning, our assumptions and expectations, our life experience and its effects on our body, mind, and spirit have no effect on what arises in the heart/mind during sleep?

 

 

 

 

Hi Steve,

Sorry to interfere with your conversation with Bindi but I feel like comenting on what you have written with an example of a dream.

I remember buying my first DDJ in my 20's in a time of my life of great confusion. After giving it some 5 minutes of attention I simply quit and put it on a shelf untouched for the next 2 years. The thing was too obscure for me I was expecting clear instructions about a healthy Chinese way of living.

By that time don't know if before or after buying the book I had a dream where I was riding a blue ox that was taking me to "soul-land". The dream left a strong impression on me altough I couldn't grasp its meaning.

Two years after having bought the DDJ I finally gave it the attention it needs and found it an amazing book of wisdom.

Still, it must have taken me some 5 more years before understanding the symbology in that dream.

Just my experience...

Don't think that Bindi is defending that all dreams are untouched by our conditioning but a few in fact seem to be.

[Lairg]

8 hours ago, Bindi said:

what are some of these experiments?

 

1. Technically:  there is a vertical stream of Light that produces consciousness in the brain and generates life force and spiritual purpose in the heart......As far as I remember everyone that I asked to  look for that Light could see it.

 

2. It is important to learn how to test entities and statements.

 

For example, go back into the scene with the being on the throne.   

 

- Put next to the entity the words: "The Source of All".  What happens to the words?

 

- Intend and visualize a stream of light from your heart going to the entity.  What happens?

 

- Visualize a plumbline just above the entity's head.  What happens to the plumbline?

 

3. Some of my martial arts friends report being unable to  visualize the anchoring of Spirit in the heart. I am not sure that is really a problem. The important aspect seems to be to intend to move the heart light. Intent is a spiritual and peaceful decision

 

4. ...Then send heart light to the relevant Lords of Karma and ask them to release the karma as the lessons have been learned.  I have watched various friends do that quite successfully. They have been very pleased with the effects on their current relationships with those players

Edited 18 hours ago by Lairg

[Bindi]

7 hours ago, steve said:

 

Interesting assertions @Bindi, thanks for sharing.

I hope you don't mind a few questions to help me understand where you are coming from. 

You propose that dreams are completely independent of subjective beliefs.

Do you feel that our lifetime of conditioning, our assumptions and expectations, our life experience and its effects on our body, mind, and spirit have no effect on what arises in the heart/mind during sleep?

 

I think the images that are used in dreams are very much based on conditioning and experience, but the plot of dreams is the objective part, I have found that dreams mirror the state of our psyche, subtle body and physical body without our subjective sense of our selves interfering. For instance ten people see a movie about a boat, a few of them have a dream of a boat, and all of those write it off as just the movie affecting them. But in each dream the boat does something different, one boat sinks, one loses its steering, one is moved by waves running parallel to the shore, one is speeding along a river. 
 

I see dreams as an incredible resource, but they come without an operators manual, at this point I think some of us are trying to write that manual. I’ve been at it for forty years so far, and I’ve found it to be a fascinating journey into all the levels of me. 
 

 

7 hours ago, steve said:

You suggest that dreams, which are limited to individual subjective experience, are the closest thing to your experience of objective reality.

That begs the question - how to define objectivity and reality? 

 

The objective reality I’m referring to is this objective mirror, the dream plot is delivered to my conscious mind without interference from my conscious mind. This is the most objective I can be about the nature of my own reality, which is what I’ve chosen to examine. 

[Bindi]

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

1. Technically:  there is a vertical stream of Light that produces consciousness in the brain and generates life force and spiritual purpose in the heart......As far as I remember everyone that I asked to  look for that Light could see it.

 

2. It is important to learn how to test entities and statements.

 

For example, go back into the scene with the being on the throne.   

 

- Put next to the entity the words: "The Source of All".  What happens to the words?

 

- Intend and visualize a stream of light from your heart going to the entity.  What happens?

 

- Visualize a plumbline just above the entity's head.  What happens to the plumbline?

 

3. Some of my martial arts friends report being unable to  visualize the anchoring of Spirit in the heart. I am not sure that is really a problem. The important aspect seems to be to intend to move the heart light. Intent is a spiritual and peaceful decision

 

4. ...Then send heart light to the relevant Lords of Karma and ask them to release the karma as the lessons have been learned.  I have watched various friends do that quite successfully. They have been very pleased with the effects on their current relationships with those players

None of this is testable, anyone can imagine anything, but it doesn’t make it so. A legitimate test needs to be demonstrated, repeatable, and outside of subjective unprovable reporting. My test, appear in my lounge room, is an observable event, if I can describe what you look like afterwards, or you can describe what I look like, that would be a fairly convincing demonstration of unusual ability. Can you think of something along these sort of lines that you’re capable of? 

 

[stirling]

On 2/13/2026 at 1:51 PM, justjoseph said:

How would one be able to find a no thing then ?

 

It's everywhere, friend. It's right in front of us all the time. In meditation when the technique drops out and there is spaciousness and stillness is possibly the easiest place to see it. I'd recommend pointing from a realized teacher, if you have access to one. 

[Bindi]

3 hours ago, stirling said:

 

It's everywhere, friend. It's right in front of us all the time. In meditation when the technique drops out and there is spaciousness and stillness is possibly the easiest place to see it. I'd recommend pointing from a realized teacher, if you have access to one. 

if you’re told that spaciousness and stillness is what we should be looking for, and you find spaciousness and stillness, then you can think you have arrived at what you believe to be the destination. But what if this as a destination is more like a model of consciousness, and as with all models they fray at the edges, and new comprehension of consciousness dawns. You believe your achievement is absolute, but it might be as primitive one day as the belief that rain gods needed to be sacrificed to to cause rain. You are working within the model you believe in, but in the future that model might have advanced significantly. 
 

From my perspective your model is incomplete because it doesn’t create flow in the subtle nadi’s, ie. the side channels and the central channel, it doesn’t activate chakras, it doesn’t build dantians, it seems mind based as opposed to subtle body based. My end point is direct seeing, resting upon one’s subtle body reality, of measurable, ascertainable things, within all levels of the body. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Bindi

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

My test, appear in my lounge room, is an observable event,

 

My own view is that spiritual planes are more important than the physical.

 

Each to their own

 

I won't bother you guys again

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Lairg