What can be said about Qi

[Sanity Check]

 

A popular catchphrase of finance is to summarize the history of market and economic trends with: "the rich get richer while the poor get poorer".

 

Does qi operate in a similar fashion.

 

If qi attracts qi, then having a large pool of qi may make it easier to attract more? Which could be an advantage?

 

In which case those with large quantities of qi, receive more qi. While those with smaller pools, tend to have qi be diminished over time?

 

Small bodies of water like lakes and rivers are not affected by tides.

 

The moon's tides will affect an ocean sized mass of water, but not smaller ones. Which could be yet another advantage for larger masses of energy?

 

In which case, are there advantages to having a smaller quantity of qi that I am overlooking? I would definitely expect there to be some advantage yet cannot for the life of me find it.

 

What observations and logical deductions can be made of qi based on natural principles and science?

 

Let's have a deep philosophical discussion.

Edited Thursday at 11:51 PM by Sanity Check

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

A popular catchphrase of finance is to summarize the history of market and economic trends with: "the rich get richer while the poor get poorer".

 

Does qi operate in a similar fashion.

 

No . Qi   and the history of market and economics are actually different things   . 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

If qi attracts qi, then having a large pool of qi may make it easier to attract more? Which could be an advantage?

 

Stored Qi  ( having a large pool ) is  passive , it is the active principle that gathers and stores Qi . 

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

In which case those with large quantities of qi, receive more qi. While those with smaller pools, tend to have qi be diminished over time?

 

having stored Qi may enable one to more efficiently gather more Qi , but the issue of just having a store of Qi will not automatically attract more .

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Small bodies of water like lakes and rivers are not affected by tides.

 

Which has nothing to do with previous 'supposins ' 

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

The moon's tides will affect an ocean sized mass of water, but not smaller ones. Which could be yet another advantage for larger masses of energy?

 

Large masses of  energy are not the same as an ocean sized mass of water .  One needs to understand how the tides effect the oceans first before making any comparisons with that dynamic . 

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

In which case, are there advantages to having a smaller quantity of qi that I am overlooking? I would definitely expect there to be some advantage yet cannot for the life of me find it.

 

But even supposing you were correct , you seem to be saying that having a large 'mass of Qi '  is better ?  Unless you think if you have a lot of Qi the tides will effect it ?

 

Actually, what are you saying here ? 

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

What observations and logical deductions can be made of qi based on natural principles and science?

 

let's start with .... not the above . 

 

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Let's have a deep philosophical discussion.

 

Okay . But  first ,  please define Qi   based on natural  principles and science  . 

[ChiDragon]

15 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Okay . But  first ,  please define Qi   based on natural  principles and science  . 

Chi is a vital source that invigorate the human body and to sustain its life. 
Ancient Taoist thought that the postnatal Chi is in the air. Just breathe more air then.

[Nungali]

Just now, ChiDragon said:

Chi is a vital source that invigorate the human body and to sustain its life. 
Ancient Taoist thought that the postnatal Chi is in the air. Just breathe more air then.

 

 

Thats cool . 

 

But it aint based on natural principles and science   ( as requested by the OP ) 

 

or maybe it is ? .... if you explain it more . 

 

How do you feel about Qi 'dynamics'    being learnt from studying  western market economics    ?      

[Nungali]

... or that by having a big pool of Qi it automatically attracts more ? 

[ChiDragon]

24 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Chi is a vital source that invigorate the human body and to sustain its life. 
Ancient Taoist thought that the postnatal Chi is in the air. Just breathe more air then.

 

In modern science, what is in the air that humans needed the most is oxygen. Thus the postnatal chi is oxygen.

[ChiDragon]

26 minutes ago, Nungali said:

... or that by having a big pool of Qi it automatically attracts more ? 

 

There is no big pool of oxygen in the body. Only if one breathes more into the lungs with Qigong. 

Edited yesterday at 02:30 AM by ChiDragon

[Krenx]

Qi is the mind substance that creates the fabric/matrix of existence. Similar to physical substances, qi has various states and frequencies. 

 

Why a master can have alot of Qi, but not blow up like a balloon, is because qi has a quality of density, and also a transformative aspect into the different frequencies, where the subtle frequencies are not bound by space and time. Jing- Qi - shen are an example of the different frequency categories. 

 

When training neigong, your task is to transform your vessel, into a very unique machine, that is incredibly free of obstacles, allowing abundance of Qi to flow through you passively, and a state of mind and body that does not leak energy unconsciously. 

[Lairg]

9 minutes ago, Krenx said:

Qi is the mind substance

 

My observation is that Life Force penetrates much higher levels than mind - as does the enlightened human

 

 

[Krenx]

11 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

My observation is that Life Force penetrates much higher levels than mind - as does the enlightened human

 

 

 

Every experience is mind experience. It cannot be "outside" of mind's phenomena. Whatever we perceive as external, is still an internal experience within the mind. 

 

Nibbana is a different thing. It is the unconditioned, where something like "life force" cannot be.  It is beyond the idea of life itself. The end of birth aging sickness, and death. 

[Master Logray]

14 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

 

In modern science, what is in the air that humans needed the most is oxygen. Thus the postnatal chi is oxygen.

 

Why did the ancients develop Neigung/Neidan/medicine/martial systems to get more oxygen?    They have more oxygen than now.

Edited yesterday at 04:51 PM by Master Logray

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Master Logray said:

.....They have more oxygen than now.

 

Let me put it this way. 

The thing is not how much oxygen is in the air. 

It is how much do you take advantage of the oxygen. Some people breathing in less and some breathe in more. Those who breathe in less are in poor health. Those who breathe in more are in good health. For that said, the Qigong practitioners and other martial arts practitioners have a better respiratory systems than a ordinary person. It's better yet. They are in excellent health. 

Edited yesterday at 08:29 PM by ChiDragon

[Lairg]

6 hours ago, Krenx said:

Every experience is mind experience.

 

Many humans have experienced beyond mind

 

https://wefreespirits.com/7-planes-of-existence/

 

The central technique is sometimes called Rising on the Planes.   

 

Beyond the planes are The Five Electricities

 

http://yogananda.com.au/holy_science/holy_science10.html

 

 

Edited yesterday at 08:36 PM by Lairg

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Lairg said:

Many humans have experienced beyond mind

https://wefreespirits.com/7-planes-of-existence/

Off subject!

[ChiDragon]

5 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Why did the ancients develop Neigung/Neidan/medicine/martial systems to get more oxygen?   

 

Please keep in mind. Get more oxygen doesn't mean breathe more than the lungs can hold. 

 

When people breathe, ideally is to have the lung to be filled with oxygen at its full capacity. However, some people may have breathing problems. Thus they only have the lung filled from 25% to 50% but not 100%. People with their lungs filled 100% every time during inhalation lives longer. It is because they have a better immune system. Somehow, the ancient Taoist discovered by breathing slow, long and deep had improved the health tremendously. The breathing method was known as Tu Na(吐納). The modern term now is called Qigong(氣功).

let's assume that the initial lung capacity of the Qigong practitioner was 50%, by performing the Tu Na method will be increased to 100%. That is what it mean by getting more oxygen.

The vital sources for the human body to function and survival are food and oxygen. The food we can eat as much as we would like. However, the way people breathe may not be the same for everyone. Therefore those who have a problem in breathing need to improve their breathing habit. Guess what they need to improve their breathing habits with? It is Qigong, Taiji or any form of exercise to improve the respiratory system. It's better yet to practice breathing that coordinates with some movements. Indeed, the best candidate is Taiji. Taiji was classified as a form of Qigong. 

 

PS

Some people claimed that they are practicing Qigong without breathing in that extra 50% of oxygen, then, they aren't practicing Qigong at all.

 

There is a lack of oxygen condition is called hypoxia. Hypoxia is what everyone want to avoid.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:04 PM by ChiDragon

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Krenx said:

Qi is the mind substance that creates the fabric/matrix of existence. Similar to physical substances, qi has various states and frequencies. 

 

Why a master can have alot of Qi, but not blow up like a balloon,

 

 

Oh damn ! Just when I thought I was heading towards mastership ! 

 

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Krenx said:

 

 

is because qi has a quality of density, and also a transformative aspect into the different frequencies, where the subtle frequencies are not bound by space and time. Jing- Qi - shen are an example of the different frequency categories. 

 

When training neigong, your task is to transform your vessel, into a very unique machine, that is incredibly free of obstacles, allowing abundance of Qi to flow through you passively, and a state of mind and body that does not leak energy unconsciously. 

 

[Nungali]

51 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Many humans have experienced beyond mind

 

https://wefreespirits.com/7-planes-of-existence/

 

 

 

Okay then ... what does your link say ; 

 

'' The Planes of Existence represents one of the most fascinating and profound aspects of metaphysical thought across numerous spiritual traditions .... ''

 

geeze , I never got past the first sentence  ! 

'' 

Quote

 

The central technique is sometimes called Rising on the Planes.   

 

Beyond the planes are The Five Electricities

 

http://yogananda.com.au/holy_science/holy_science10.html

 

 

 

according to this link    cant exist without mind expereince ;  

 

 

''  These five forms of gross matter and the aforesaid fifteen attributes, together with Manas, Mind, sense consciousness; Buddhi, discriminative Intelligence; Chitta, the Heart or power of feeling; and Ahamkara, the Ego, constitute the twenty-four basic principles of creation. 

Edited yesterday at 09:26 PM by Nungali

[Taomeow]

10 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Why did the ancients develop Neigung/Neidan/medicine/martial systems to get more oxygen?    They have more oxygen than now.

 

Yeah, and then there's hyperoxia, a life-threatening medical condition caused by too much oxygen.  Oxygen toxicity is a well-known phenomenon, symptoms include pleuritic chest pain, coughing, dyspnea, tracheobronchitis and pulmonary edema, to name a few.  Whereas there is no amount of qi in the human body that is toxic to the human body. 

 

A wonderful taoist rule of thumb: do not define something via what it "is," describe it via what it isn't.  Wield that Occam's razor with a firm hand.  If too much "something" can do things to the body which no amount of qi can do to the body, that "something" isn't qi.  Be it oxygen, chocolate, ice cream, electricity, or what have you.

 

Qi is not interchangeable with anything at all.  Understanding qi only starts (sic!) when one stops equating it to something else they happen to be familiar with.  There is no something else that "is" qi.  Just like there is no other gas that can replace oxygen in the blood, there is no other phenomenon that can replace qi in the taoist paradigm.  Oxygen is oxygen.  Qi is qi.  

 

Every traditionally trained and educated (key word every word in italics) taoist practitioner has heard of "qi leads blood," "qi is the general of blood" in this or that context, whether medical, martial or magical.  Blood is what carries oxygen to the organs and systems of the body, but to get oxygen into the blood, one has to have qi to lead and guide it.  The general and the army are connected, but most definitely they aren't the same entity.  The general leads, the army follows.  Qi leads, oxygen follows.  Unless one is dealing with a rebellious general starting a coup -- aka "rebellious qi," the term for some pretty nasty health disorders, including mental disorders.  

Edited 20 hours ago by Taomeow

[Apech]

Scientific materialism is an invasive ideology which tempts you to reduce everything to the banal.  Hence qi is oxygen becomes an attractive and unchallenging proposition.  Your safe world view remains unchallenged but such safety is actually your prison.  
 

 

[ChiDragon]

On 1/8/2026 at 1:28 PM, Sanity Check said:

 

Let's have a deep philosophical discussion.

 

Please specify what kind of Chi are you talking about?

[ChiDragon]

We can start with three kinds of Chi, 炁,  氣 and 气. Can you tell the difference?

What is 炁(chi) in TCM?

What is 氣(chi) to a Taoist?
What is 气(chi) to a Qigong practitioner?

Edited 3 hours ago by ChiDragon

[Sanity Check]

28 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 

Please specify what kind of Chi are you talking about?

 

 

Remember in Enter the Dragon.

 

Bruce Lee says...  "Chi. Power. It is like a finger pointing to the moon. Do not concentrate on that finger or you will miss out on all that heavenly glory."

 

I'm not particular. People can discuss any type of qi they wish.

Edited 3 hours ago by Sanity Check

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Remember in Enter the Dragon.

 

Bruce Lee says...  "Chi. Power. It is like a finger pointing to the moon. Do not concentrate on that finger or you will miss out on all that heavenly glory."

 

 

In that case, human biological power(ATP) is from 氧气, oxygen.

 

Let's point a finger to chi, not the moon yet.

Edited 3 hours ago by ChiDragon

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Remember in Enter the Dragon.

 

Bruce Lee says...  "Chi. Power. It is like a finger pointing to the moon. Do not concentrate on that finger or you will miss out on all that heavenly glory."

 

I'm not particular. People can discuss any type of qi they wish.

 

This particular aspect of it is like  'ki' in aikido .

 

To put what Bruce said in  another context ;

 

When developing ki , in an aikido exercise , say , someone seizes your wrist ..... during the  'jitsu' you do not focus on your hand (or even your body ) that is moving  ( ie the finger pointing at the moon )  nor the 'destination' of your 'ki stream '   ( the Moon )  but the flow of energy from your hand to the 'ki stream destination'  ( the 'pointing ' part ) ... the idea of pointing is to direct consciousness along a pathway or stream   ... ' flow ' .

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

In that case, human biological power(ATP) is from 氧气, oxygen.

 

Let's point a finger to chi, not the moon yet.

 

lets point a finger  to the direction of chi flow      

 

(  I used to do this thing in aikido where,  towards the end  and after a standard move or throw  I would do it with index finger  pointed and then leave it extended and pointing to where the person landed .  Observers would be  ; '' Wow !  he threw that guy with one finger ! ''

 

   ... which of course, I didnt .  )