evil running wild in the world

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

Dont worry about that .... would you like some gold  ?  

 

 

or $2k

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Ohhh but it got much better  ( and deeper and more magical and spiritual  )  ;  

 

It might even be relevant to what is getting at you now ? (if you get the lyrics ) ;

 

 

that sounds like wanna be hip bullshit... there is not much to get other than dark rage, blaming God, Jesus or Spirit and not seeing our karma thus the singers lyrics and the tone of music is in a way glorifying hellish inner states of conflict and gnawing doubt or a false view about Spirit, thus not magical or spiritual,  get it? 

Edited 20 hours ago by old3bob

[Keith108]

On 1/9/2026 at 6:07 PM, zerostao said:

I'm no Buddhist, isn't there a quote along the lines of "With our thoughts we make our world"

?

This. If all one sees is evil, then the world is evil. Turning off the news and not doom scrolling all the time helps to see things as they are. Good and evil are always present. Originally though, good and evil are empty. 

 

Now, where do thoughts come from? That's the question that liberates. 

 

_/|\_

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Keith108

[old3bob]

2 minutes ago, Keith108 said:

This. If all one sees is evil, then the world is evil. Turning off the news and not doom scrolling all the time helps to see things as they are. Good and evil are always present. Originally though, good and evil are empty. 

 

Now, where do thoughts come from? That's the question that liberates. 

 

_/|\_

 

 

 

 real good/Spirit  is always present but relative good and evil come and go

 

[stirling]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

real good/Spirit  is always present but relative good and evil come and go

…sooooo close my friend… 

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

that sounds like wanna be hip bullshit... there is not much to get other than dark rage, blaming God, Jesus or Spirit and not seeing our karma thus the singers lyrics and the tone of music is in a way glorifying hellish inner states of conflict and gnawing doubt or a false view about Spirit, thus not magical or spiritual,  get it? 

 

Errrmmm  no the lyrics are not blaming God or Jesus or Spirit ,( they even state;  ' no one to blame ' )  -   its a lament for the ways things used to be and how they have now  broken down . I thought you might relate to it . 

 

I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smouldering
Fundamental differing
Pure intention juxtaposed
Will set two lovers' souls in motion
Disintegrating as it goes
Testing our communication

The light that fueled our fire then
Has burned a hole between us so
We cannot seem to reach an end
Crippling our communication

I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame
It doesn't mean I don't desire
To point the finger, blame the other
Watch the temple topple over
To bring the pieces back together
Rediscover communication

The poetry that comes from
The squaring off between
And the circling is worth it
Finding beauty in the dissonance

There was a time that the pieces fit
But I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smouldering
Strangled by our coveting
I've done the math enough to know
The dangers of our second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow
And strengthen our communication

Cold silence has
A tendency to
Atrophy any
Sense of compassion

 

as far as calling it 'wanna be hip bullshit ' I guess you dont realize their acclaim and mastery ? 

 

eg.   Lateralis ;  

 

'' The album debuted at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart, selling more than 555,200 copies in its first week of release.^[4] It was certified triple platinum by the RIAA on April 15, 2021.^[5] On February 13, 2015, the album was certified Gold by the BPI.^[6] It was also certified double platinum in both Australia and Canada.^[7][8] The band won the Grammy Award for Best Metal Performance for the song "Schism" in 2002.^[9] Lateralus was ranked No. 123 on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's "Definitive 200" list.

 

if you didnt notice  ;  

 

 

"Schism" is renowned for its use of uncommon time signatures and the frequency of its meter changes. In one analysis of the song, the song alters meter 47 times.^[11] The song begins with two bars of ⁵
₄, followed by one bar of ⁴
₄, followed by bars of alternating ⁵
₈ and ⁷
₈, until the first interlude, which consists of alternating bars of ⁶
₈ and ⁷
₈.

The following verse exhibits a similar pattern to the first, alternating bars of ⁵
₈ and ⁷
₈. The next section is four bars of ⁶
₄ followed by one bar of ¹¹
₈. This takes the song back into alternating ⁵
₈ and ⁷
₈. Another ⁶
₈ and ⁷
₈ section follows, and after this the song goes into repeating bars of ⁵
₈ and ⁹
₈. The section ends with the music hanging suspended over a bar of ⁹
₈.

The middle section is subsequently introduced at 3:29, maintaining a group of three bars of ⁶
₈ then one of ⁹
₈ until 5:02. Then a series of ⁸
₄, ¹⁰
₄, ⁸
₄, ⁸
₄, then ⁹
₈ heading into "Between supposed lovers..." which is a three bar group of ⁹
₈, ¹⁰
₈ and ⁹
₈, played twice.

It breaks down with a measure of ¹³
₈ then ⁹
₈. ⁵
₈ then ⁹
₈ repeats 3 times then ⁵
₈ and ⁶
₈ once. The signature riff takes over again, ⁵
₈ then ⁷
₈. The final riff is ⁸
₈.

The band has referred to the time signature as ^6+1⁄2
₈.^[12]

 

Not much to get other than blaming God or Jesus ?  ! 

 

Oldbob ... I do believe you are suffering prejudice .    I was  supporting your view but apparently you are seeing evil running everywhere in the world .... even where it is not . 

 

 

[bradley]

6 hours ago, Keith108 said:

Originally though, good and evil are empty. 

 

Can I ask a question, so I am pretty happy and dont see "evil" running amuck in my own life, but when I think about some of the bad things that have happened in the past 200 years, it seems like there are sometimes these anti-karmic or dark-karma effects in the world.  People undertaking "bad" actions many times (but not always) are the ones who accumulate more power, which only extends their ability to do undertake similarly "bad" actions.  Most social systems do not reward morality.  it seems like they mostly reward risk and aggression, and there is a feed back loop where when someone gains power they are more protected from consequences and and can better shape the rules in their favor.  

 

This amoral feedback loop is i guess is slightly different than karma. And, maybe these people do "get theirs" in the end and maybe they are deeply suffering individuals, but I don't think that's always true.  Having worked at a large corporation, amorality seemed to be the rule for promotion, not the exception.   

 

So is there any validity to this kind of concept?  Also, is evil the same as immorality?

[old3bob]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Errrmmm  no the lyrics are not blaming God or Jesus or Spirit ,( they even state;  ' no one to blame ' )  -   its a lament for the ways things used to be and how they have now  broken down . I thought you might relate to it . 

 

I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smouldering
Fundamental differing
Pure intention juxtaposed
Will set two lovers' souls in motion
Disintegrating as it goes
Testing our communication

The light that fueled our fire then
Has burned a hole between us so
We cannot seem to reach an end
Crippling our communication

I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame
It doesn't mean I don't desire
To point the finger, blame the other
Watch the temple topple over
To bring the pieces back together
Rediscover communication

The poetry that comes from
The squaring off between
And the circling is worth it
Finding beauty in the dissonance

There was a time that the pieces fit
But I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smouldering
Strangled by our coveting
I've done the math enough to know
The dangers of our second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow
And strengthen our communication

Cold silence has
A tendency to
Atrophy any
Sense of compassion

 

as far as calling it 'wanna be hip bullshit ' I guess you dont realize their acclaim and mastery ? 

 

eg.   Lateralis ;  

 

'' The album debuted at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart, selling more than 555,200 copies in its first week of release.^[4] It was certified triple platinum by the RIAA on April 15, 2021.^[5] On February 13, 2015, the album was certified Gold by the BPI.^[6] It was also certified double platinum in both Australia and Canada.^[7][8] The band won the Grammy Award for Best Metal Performance for the song "Schism" in 2002.^[9] Lateralus was ranked No. 123 on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's "Definitive 200" list.

 

if you didnt notice  ;  

 

 

"Schism" is renowned for its use of uncommon time signatures and the frequency of its meter changes. In one analysis of the song, the song alters meter 47 times.^[11] The song begins with two bars of ⁵
₄, followed by one bar of ⁴
₄, followed by bars of alternating ⁵
₈ and ⁷
₈, until the first interlude, which consists of alternating bars of ⁶
₈ and ⁷
₈.

The following verse exhibits a similar pattern to the first, alternating bars of ⁵
₈ and ⁷
₈. The next section is four bars of ⁶
₄ followed by one bar of ¹¹
₈. This takes the song back into alternating ⁵
₈ and ⁷
₈. Another ⁶
₈ and ⁷
₈ section follows, and after this the song goes into repeating bars of ⁵
₈ and ⁹
₈. The section ends with the music hanging suspended over a bar of ⁹
₈.

The middle section is subsequently introduced at 3:29, maintaining a group of three bars of ⁶
₈ then one of ⁹
₈ until 5:02. Then a series of ⁸
₄, ¹⁰
₄, ⁸
₄, ⁸
₄, then ⁹
₈ heading into "Between supposed lovers..." which is a three bar group of ⁹
₈, ¹⁰
₈ and ⁹
₈, played twice.

It breaks down with a measure of ¹³
₈ then ⁹
₈. ⁵
₈ then ⁹
₈ repeats 3 times then ⁵
₈ and ⁶
₈ once. The signature riff takes over again, ⁵
₈ then ⁷
₈. The final riff is ⁸
₈.

The band has referred to the time signature as ^6+1⁄2
₈.^[12]

 

Not much to get other than blaming God or Jesus ?  ! 

 

Oldbob ... I do believe you are suffering prejudice .    I was  supporting your view but apparently you are seeing evil running everywhere in the world .... even where it is not . 

 

 

analyzing all that  is quite hip,  and shrinkable in some ways

but we're not really each others shrinks. FYI I was commenting on the earlier posted Judith song thus not the one you posted. But thanks anyway.

 

Scroll back a ways and listen to and watch the Bob Marely video that I posted if you care to, or not.  It has no need to tap into dark power. 

 

 Btw, the following saying is simple and pure, even transcendent in a way without overly lamenting or trying to be profound even if it is profound for a Christian and really for any religion if understood  right,

"There but for the grace of God go I".

 

Edited 6 hours ago by old3bob

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, bradley said:

 

Can I ask a question, so I am pretty happy and dont see "evil" running amuck in my own life, but when I think about some of the bad things that have happened in the past 200 years, it seems like there are sometimes these anti-karmic or dark-karma effects in the world.  People undertaking "bad" actions many times (but not always) are the ones who accumulate more power, which only extends their ability to do undertake similarly "bad" actions.  Most social systems do not reward morality.  it seems like they mostly reward risk and aggression, and there is a feed back loop where when someone gains power they are more protected from consequences and and can better shape the rules in their favor.  

 

This amoral feedback loop is i guess is slightly different than karma. And, maybe these people do "get theirs" in the end and maybe they are deeply suffering individuals, but I don't think that's always true.  Having worked at a large corporation, amorality seemed to be the rule for promotion, not the exception.   

 

So is there any validity to this kind of concept?  Also, is evil the same as immorality?

 

some deep ideas to think about....

[kakapo]

3 hours ago, bradley said:

 

Can I ask a question, so I am pretty happy and dont see "evil" running amuck in my own life, but when I think about some of the bad things that have happened in the past 200 years, it seems like there are sometimes these anti-karmic or dark-karma effects in the world.  People undertaking "bad" actions many times (but not always) are the ones who accumulate more power, which only extends their ability to do undertake similarly "bad" actions.  Most social systems do not reward morality.  it seems like they mostly reward risk and aggression, and there is a feed back loop where when someone gains power they are more protected from consequences and and can better shape the rules in their favor.  

 

This amoral feedback loop is i guess is slightly different than karma. And, maybe these people do "get theirs" in the end and maybe they are deeply suffering individuals, but I don't think that's always true.  Having worked at a large corporation, amorality seemed to be the rule for promotion, not the exception.   

 

So is there any validity to this kind of concept?  Also, is evil the same as immorality?

 

Evil exists solely because good people turn a blind eye to it and allow it to continue, and for no other reason. 

 

If good people did something about it, it wouldn't and couldn't exist.

[Keith108]

4 hours ago, bradley said:

 

Can I ask a question, so I am pretty happy and dont see "evil" running amuck in my own life, but when I think about some of the bad things that have happened in the past 200 years, it seems like there are sometimes these anti-karmic or dark-karma effects in the world.  People undertaking "bad" actions many times (but not always) are the ones who accumulate more power, which only extends their ability to do undertake similarly "bad" actions.  Most social systems do not reward morality.  it seems like they mostly reward risk and aggression, and there is a feed back loop where when someone gains power they are more protected from consequences and and can better shape the rules in their favor.  

 

This amoral feedback loop is i guess is slightly different than karma. And, maybe these people do "get theirs" in the end and maybe they are deeply suffering individuals, but I don't think that's always true.  Having worked at a large corporation, amorality seemed to be the rule for promotion, not the exception.   

 

So is there any validity to this kind of concept?  Also, is evil the same as immorality?

 

So, neither of us knows the truth. My idea is that the world has been ebbing and flowing with good and evil/immorality since beginningless time. One term for that is samsara.

 

There was a time when you were just minding you own business in some village somewhere, and a hoard of barbarians would ride in and kill all the men, rape all the women, and burn the place to the ground. That's pretty evil, just a different kind, I suppose.

 

In my opinion, it's not any better or worse these days. We are just more aware of it thanks to the little rectangles we carry around all day, filling our minds with little bits of info and mis-info. 

 

Opinions are like a$$holes though. Everyone has got one and they all stink. And when, we attach to our opinions, our beliefs, our ideas, we cause suffering for ourselves and the world. The way to cut that particular feedback loop is to wake up from the delusion of our "I, me, my" prison. And then help others do the same. 

 

_/|\_

 

 

[Keith108]

16 minutes ago, kakapo said:

 

Evil exists solely because good people turn a blind eye to it and allow it to continue, and for no other reason. 

 

If good people did something about it, it wouldn't and couldn't exist.

One time, I asked my teacher: "when will evil end?" He replied: "when you stop doing good". KInd of a zenny answer, but also very deep. 

 

Some years ago, a rather eccentric friend of my mine once remarked that evil was necessary to balance good. Kind of a yin/yang thing. That's always been interesting to me. Every time humans try to create a utopia, it's a disaster. It seems we can't function with just the light. I still like ruminate on this one, because it runs against the grain for me. But as OldBob mentioned above, some deep ideas to think about. 

 

_/|\_

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, kakapo said:

Evil exists solely because good people turn a blind eye to it and allow it to continue, and for no other reason. 

 

If good people did something about it, it wouldn't and couldn't exist.

I believe that good and evil is mostly subjective depending upon which side of the fence one is sitting on. 

For instance, people of the French revolution thought of Marie Antoinette as evil. She was the daughter of royalty forced into a marriage of convenience. Ignored by her husband and others in a foreign land, she did what she knew best. To have parties and enjoy the life of a royal. The French looked upon her actions as evil because it was a mockery of the poor French. And so they tortured her (kept her locked away from her son and daughter) and ending her life by beheading her. Was she really evil? Or was the French who killed her evil?

 

What you say about good and evil is a very simplistic view. That evil is obvious and good is obvious and the two are easily distinguished. Sometimes it isn't that easy. But, hindsight always tells us that it is.

Edited 9 hours ago by Tommy

[old3bob]

 

if anything goes and there is not general recognition of dharma and adharma then its open season on any truth, including the Spirit inherent in all Beings but I'd say that is not going to work by paraphrasing the Taoist  Sage that basically said, that which is against the great Tao soon perishes...

 

Edited 5 hours ago by old3bob

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, Keith108 said:

 

So, neither of us knows the truth. My idea is that the world has been ebbing and flowing with good and evil/immorality since beginningless time. One term for that is samsara.

 

There was a time when you were just minding you own business in some village somewhere, and a hoard of barbarians would ride in and kill all the men, rape all the women, and burn the place to the ground. That's pretty evil, just a different kind, I suppose.

 

In my opinion, it's not any better or worse these days. We are just more aware of it thanks to the little rectangles we carry around all day, filling our minds with little bits of info and mis-info. 

 

Opinions are like a$$holes though. Everyone has got one and they all stink. And when, we attach to our opinions, our beliefs, our ideas, we cause suffering for ourselves and the world. The way to cut that particular feedback loop is to wake up from the delusion of our "I, me, my" prison. And then help others do the same. 

 

_/|\_

 

 

who knows the exact measure of a cosmic cycle of time although there are some well reasoned  estimates,  (like the very long but still limited lifetime of Lord Brahma the creator) but they still have beginnings, endings and re-beginnings.  The historic Buddha sounded like he alluded to this when he mentioned to Ananda that he could stay until the end of the cycle (in whatever form?) but Ananda missed that didn't he?

 

Edited 5 hours ago by old3bob

[Apech]

How do we define evil?

[old3bob]

8 minutes ago, Apech said:

How do we define evil?

 

or also by what it is not

[liminal_luke]

The word "evil" is useful if you´re an author writing a thriller about serial killers.  Less useful is you´re trying to have a rational conversation.  In practice, it´s usually used by people who want to distance themselves from their shadows through projection (all the bad things I refuse to recognize in myself go in the evil basket).  It´s also handy for depressives who want to load up on self-loathing.  Evil does exist, I´m pretty sure.  But it´s a hard thing to talk about because the word carries too much emotional weight.

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

The word "evil" is useful if you´re an author writing a thriller about serial killers.  Less useful is you´re trying to have a rational conversation.  In practice, it´s usually used by people who want to distance themselves from their shadows through projection (all the bad things I refuse to recognize in myself go in the evil basket).  It´s also handy for depressives who want to load up on self-loathing.  Evil does exist, I´m pretty sure.  But it´s a hard thing to talk about because the word carries too much emotional weight.

 

we can over think it but just spell live backwards... which would you rather go with?

[Keith108]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

who knows the exact measure of a cosmic cycle of time although there are some well reasoned  estimates,  (like the very long but still limited lifetime of Lord Brahma the creator) but they still have beginnings, endings and re-beginnings.  The historic Buddha sounded like he alluded to this when he mentioned to Ananda that he could stay until the end of the cycle (in whatever form?) but Ananda missed that didn't he?

 

As with good and evil, the three times (past, present, and future) are empty. They have no self nature, and are illusions that keep us locked up in our "self" prisons. I know that sounds crazy but, at least from a Buddhist pov, it's a pretty key teaching. 

 

My signature quote starts with some good instruction about how to practice, and then the last line. The last line says essentially, all of the  past, present, and future are contained in this moment. One mind moment/infinite kalpas. But, now I am drifting from the topic. 

 

Ch. 2 in the DDJ seems to point to these apparent paradoxes of time and good vs. evil:

 

~ 2 ~

When the whole world knows the pleasing to be pleasing

This ends in despising

When all know the good to be good In the end there is “not good”

Thus, existence and non-existence are born together

Difficulty and ease result in each other

Long and short are compared to each other

Above and below are opposites of each other

Noise and tone are harmonized by each other

Front and back accompany each other

Therefore, sages handle affairs with non-action

They practice wordless instruction

And the myriad things all take their places

Without responding Given life, but not possessed

Acted for, but not expected of

Perfection is cultivated, and not dwelled upon

Surely, what is not dwelled upon Does not leave

 

Gong, Heshang; Lao Tzu. The Heshang Gong Commentary on Lao Zi's Dao De Jing (2nd edition) (p. 46). Center Ring Publishing. Kindle Edition. 

 

_/|\_

[Cobie]

 

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

if anything goes and there is not general recognition of dharma and adharma then its open season on any truth, including the Spirit inherent in all Beings …

 

I agree. 

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

analyzing all that  is quite hip,  and shrinkable in some ways

 

 

Its called listening to and appreciating good music oldbob . perhaps my excessive interest in  timing is due to my interest in drumming . 

I will hide this so you dont have to look at it   

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

but we're not really each others shrinks. 

 

 

because I posted a song that you might relate to even though it might be called 'heavy metal'  , I am now trying to be your psychiatrist ? Is that what you meant ? 

 

 

11 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

 FYI I was commenting on the earlier posted Judith song thus not the one you posted. But thanks anyway.

 

 

But you put those comments under a quoted post from me , which is why I responded the way I did . 

By the way , this reply IS meant for you .  

 

11 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

Scroll back a ways and listen to and watch the Bob Marely video that I posted if you care to, or not.  It has no need to tap into dark power. 

 

Well, I would .... but now , under the risk of you becoming my psychiatrist if I do watch it  .......

 

 

 

11 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

 Btw, the following saying is simple and pure, even transcendent in a way without overly lamenting or trying to be profound even if it is profound for a Christian and really for any religion if understood  right,

"There but for the grace of God go I".

 

 

Now you seem to be saying if it was not for God 's grace    you might have become a heavy metal  musician ? 

 

 

[steve]

On 1/11/2026 at 11:03 AM, liminal_luke said:

It´s often said that the "separate self" does not exist, and I suppose this goes for the self of Gods and Goddesses too. 

 

IMO it is an error in view to claim that a separate self "does not exist."

Nor did I claim that gods, goddesses, and demons do not exist.

That is not my view or the meaning of my posts.

I do understand how people can come to that conclusion, sorry to not be more clear.

 

On 1/11/2026 at 11:03 AM, liminal_luke said:

If Gods and Goddesses do exist then, at least on some level: they are us and we, them. 

 

This, I can get behind... and in front...  and in the middle too. 

 

"I am he
As you are he
As you are me
And we are all together

...

Goo, goo, g'joob!"

[steve]

9 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

Evil exists solely because good people turn a blind eye to it and allow it to continue, and for no other reason. 

 

If good people did something about it, it wouldn't and couldn't exist.

 

8 hours ago, Tommy said:

I believe that good and evil is mostly subjective depending upon which side of the fence one is sitting on. 

...

 

What you say about good and evil is a very simplistic view. That evil is obvious and good is obvious and the two are easily distinguished. Sometimes it isn't that easy. But, hindsight always tells us that it is.

 

I just finished an interesting and entertaining fantasy novel called Babel by RF Kuang.

It is an interesting study in good, evil, and perspective set against the background of English colonialism.

Not a perfect novel by any stretch but quite compelling overall.