evil running wild in the world

[Apech]

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

Yeah, I've probably got it all wrong.

Peace

 

Don't give up so easily : )

[zerostao]

21 hours ago, stirling said:

One definition of "doing evil" from a Buddhist perspective:

 

 

 

Do you think there is rampant evil afoot in our world?

[zerostao]

16 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I chose the side of the 'White Lodge '      

 

'' LET IT BE KNOWN that there exists, unknown to the great crowd, a very ancient Order of sages, whose object is the amelioration and spiritual evolution of mankind by means of conquering error and aiding men and women in their efforts of attaining the power of recognising the truth. This Order has existed already in the most remote times and it has manifested its activity secretly and openly in the world under different names and in various forms: it has caused social and political revolutions and proved to be the rock of salvation in times of danger and misfortune. It has always upheld the banner of freedom against tyranny in whatever shape this appeared, whether as clerical or political or social despotism or oppression of any kind.

 

To this “secret order” every wise and spiritually enlightened person belongs by right of his or her nature: because they all, even if they are personally unknown to each other, are one in their purpose and object and they all work under the guidance of the one light of truth. Into this Sacred Society no one can be admitted by another unless he has the power to enter it himself by virtue of his own interior illumination, neither can anyone after he has once entered be expelled unless he should expel himself by becoming unfaithful to his principles and forget again the truths which he has learned by his own experience. ''

 

 

Coolest thing I read all day.

[zerostao]

4 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

 

There is a story they tell in the lineage I follow, about WW2 being caused by literal demons possessing the minds of German leadership, shaping the way they thought and saw reality. 

 

I have absolutely no idea if that is true, but it is an interesting story.  

 

I can say I have met with people in real life, and recently who told me they were salivating (their words), to start killing certain groups of people.  

 

Those comments, that they were hungry to kill other people, makes me wonder if there isn't more to that story.

 

Puts me in the mind of stories I've heard about WW1, WW2, truces made between Russian and German soldiers, so they could focus on the wolves that were devouring them.

Speaking of were, there is a story about Russians entering werebear mountain in Finland.

 

Depends on perspective, I'd say, if the wolves and bears were the good guys or not.

 

As a side note  if you have ever been to my Random Philosophy thread in my ppd, you already know, Soren has stopped me in my tracks more than once.

 

[Apech]

29 minutes ago, zerostao said:

 

Do you think there is rampant evil afoot in our world?

An evil foot? Where? (Looks wildly about in terror).

 

 

[stirling]

35 minutes ago, zerostao said:

Do you think there is rampant evil afoot in our world?

 

If you use THIS definition, then yes:

 

Quote

To deliberately cause suffering or to not care if suffering is caused. 

 

I'm a big fan of this description. It is clean, clear, and doesn't get lost in lists of specific behavior, or adopted ideas.

 

Evil is typically a conceptual designation most people use for a lumped-together bunch of actions or philosophies that they fear or disagree with. I don't believe in evil as some entity that acts on people or has any particular personifications. I DO believe that there are people who will do anything to protect themselves from the ideas or things that they fear, or in a misguided attempt to make themselves feel happy or safe, often at the expense of others. 

[old3bob]

15 hours ago, stirling said:

 

If you use THIS definition, then yes:

 

 

I'm a big fan of this description. It is clean, clear, and doesn't get lost in lists of specific behavior, or adopted ideas.

 

Evil is typically a conceptual designation most people use for a lumped-together bunch of actions or philosophies that they fear or disagree with. I don't believe in evil as some entity that acts on people or has any particular personifications. I DO believe that there are people who will do anything to protect themselves from the ideas or things that they fear, or in a misguided attempt to make themselves feel happy or safe, often at the expense of others. 

 

in other words it sounds like you have no experience in seeing the hell realms and the Beings there-in as recounted by countless witness over thousands of years...Btw there are many Buddhists who have no trouble giving witness to pure-land or heavenly realms and the Beings there-in  (also for  Beings like Quan-Yin,  the Jade Emperor, and guardian Spirits)  and who may also give witness and warnings about the opposite to that.  How convenient to write -off thousands of years of witness by people and even  parts of Buddhist doctrine!?  (for instance Tibetan examples that do not deny such realms)   Non-duality is fine but it is not smug.

Edited 8 hours ago by old3bob

[liminal_luke]

 Bonpos with demon denial problems, smug non-dualists, Bud Lite tipplers, torch-wielding villagers -- this thread really has something for everyone.  And to think that some mods (bows head in shame) thought it should of been locked.

[stirling]

9 minutes ago, old3bob said:

in other words it sounds like you have no experience in seeing the hell realms and the Beings there-in as recounted by countless witness over thousands of years...Btw there are many Buddhists who have no trouble giving witness to pure-land or heavenly realms and the Beings there-in  (also for a beings like Quan-Yin,  the Jade Emperor, and guardian Spirits)  and who may also give witness and warnings about the opposite to that.  How convenient to write -off thousands of years of witness by people and even  parts of Buddhist doctrine!?  (for instance Tibetan examples that do not deny such realms)   Non-duality is fine but it is not smug.

 

Bob, Would it hurt you to be a little more kind in your responses? There might be some things you don't completely understand. What is smug about understanding the teachings, or having insight into them?

 

The Realms of Existence, the pure-lands and heavenly realms - even nirvana and enlightenment -  aren't cosmology, aren't somewhere else, they are right here. All the time. Not in the past or future. Literally RIGHT in front of you, right now. Always have been.

(Bonus answer: The Tao and Brahman also suffuse everything in this moment and are RIGHT HERE. They are all the same thing.)

 

They are a series of metaphors intended to show you where people get stuck on the path to complete understanding, and can be seen once you know what you are looking for with little difficulty.

 

What you are able to see depends on the clarity of your ability to see. The Buddha illustrates this in the Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra:

 

Quote

Then the venerable Sariputra said to the Brahma Sikhin, "As for me, O Brahma, I see this great earth, with its highs and lows, its thorns, its precipices, its peaks, and its abysses, as if it were entirely filled with ordure."

 

Brahma Sikhin replied, "The fact that you see such a buddha-field as this as if it were so impure, reverend Sariputra, is a sure sign that there are highs and lows in your mind and that your positive thought in regard to the buddha-gnosis is not pure either. Reverend Sariputra, those whose minds are impartial toward all living beings and whose positive thoughts toward the buddha-gnosis are pure see this buddha-field as perfectly pure."

 

Thereupon the Lord touched the ground of this billion-world-galactic universe with his big toe, and suddenly it was transformed into a huge mass of precious jewels, a magnificent array of many hundreds of thousands of clusters of precious gems, until it resembled the universe of the Tathagata Ratnavyuha, called Anantagunaratnavyuha. 

 

Everyone in the entire assembly was filled with wonder, each perceiving himself seated on a throne of jeweled lotuses.

Then, the Buddha said to the venerable Sariputra, "Sariputra, do you see this splendor of the virtues of the buddha-field?"

Sariputra replied, "I see it, Lord! Here before me is a display of splendor such as I never before heard of or beheld!"

 

The Buddha said, "Sariputra, this buddha-field is always thus pure, but the Tathagata makes it appear to be spoiled by many faults, in order to bring about the maturity of the inferior living beings. For example, Sariputra, the gods of the Trayastrimsa heaven all take their food from a single precious vessel, yet the nectar which nourishes each one differs according to the differences of the merits each has accumulated. Just so, Sariputra, living beings born in the same buddha-field see the splendor of the virtues of the buddha-fields of the Buddhas according to their own degrees of purity." - From Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra, Buddha

 

People cycling through the realms become attached to specific ideas about what might make them happy, or what is possible.

 

You might find this nice practical application of the teachings from a realized teacher interesting:

 

https://www.lionsroar.com/everyday-life-is-the-practice/

[kakapo]

14 hours ago, zerostao said:

 

Do you think there is rampant evil afoot in our world?

 

I’m having a really hard time processing what’s happening.

 

To me, it feels like this is a supernatural level of evil that’s invisible to almost everyone.

 

Even for the people who notice it, the truth feels so dim and distant.

 

It’s like living through a Rick and Morty plot there’s this total disconnect between what should be possible and what I’m actually witnessing.

 

Yes evil is growing rapidly like a cancer.

 

Edited 10 hours ago by kakapo

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 Bonpos with demon denial problems, smug non-dualists, Bud Lite tipplers, torch-wielding villagers -- this thread really has something for everyone.  And to think that some mods (bows head in shame) thought it should of been locked.

 

 repression and oppression are counter productive, and also if only basking in easy going pleasantries, so let it be...

Edited 20 hours ago by old3bob

[old3bob]

 

Non-duality insistence is smug when it writes everything off as some form of illusion  or not understanding the teachings, even if it means well.

Edited 19 hours ago by old3bob

[Cobie]

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 … bows head in shame …

 

I object.     I think you can stand proud.

Also it’s a human right to change your mind.  I do it all the time. 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Cobie

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

An evil foot? Where? (Looks wildly about in terror).

 

 

 

What ?   You never woke up in the morning with a zombie woof behind your eyes ? 

 

I got a great big pointed fang
Which is my zomby tooth
My right foot's bigger than my other one is
Like a regular zombie hoof

 

If I raid your dormitorium
Don't try to remain aloof

I might snatch you up screamin' through the window all naked
And do it to you on the roof,

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Nungali

[Nungali]

15 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

 

I object.     I think you can stand proud.

Also it’s a human right to change your mind.  I do it all the time. 

 

 

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

I’m having a really hard time processing what’s happening.

 

To me, it feels like this supernatural level of evil that’s invisible to almost everyone.

 

Even for the people who notice it, the truth feels so dim and distant.

 

It’s like living through a Rick and Morty plot there’s this total disconnect between what should be possible and what I’m actually witnessing.

 

Yes evil is growing rapidly like a cancer.

 

 

could also be likened to a tidal wave of black, consuming darkness coming upon us, but there are those that "stand strong' against it...

Edited 19 hours ago by old3bob

[stirling]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

Non-duality insistence is smug when it writes everything off as some form of illusion  or not understanding the teachings, even if it means well.

 

Ah... phew! Thank goodness I'm not doing any of that. 

[Lairg]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

Non-duality insistence is smug when it writes everything off as some form of illusion 

 

Imagine if duality had a purpose

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

 

Imagine if duality had a purpose

 

that could use some further detail...

[Lairg]

Is it possible for the non-dual to achieve some development or purpose by manifesting then penetrating a duality?

 

Are there stages/progressions within non-duality that are exercised in a duality?  

 

More simply:  why do humans exist?   Not how, but why!

 

Long ago I had a dream that I later re-entered to experiment within.  The dream showed me a complex interaction between the non-dual and the manifested duality.  I knew intelligences that were within both.

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Lairg

[old3bob]

50 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Is it possible for the non-dual to achieve some development or purpose by manifesting then penetrating a duality?

 

Are there stages/progressions within non-duality that are exercised in a duality?  

 

More simply:  why do humans exist?   Not how, but why!

 

Long ago I had a dream that I later re-entered to experiment within.  The dream showed me a complex interaction between the non-dual and the manifested duality.  I knew intelligences that were within both.

 

 

"why" is a dualistic type of question about non-duality, which is simple beyond regular knowing and thus  an answer other than mental speculation can not be had that way,  anyway in using the term Brahman it can not be added to or taken away from since It is complete.  Btw why Love?  Isn't Love the only one that knows.... as also echoed with,

"Peace that passes all understanding",  Philippians 4:7 (thus also beyond regular understanding)

Edited 14 hours ago by old3bob

[Lairg]

11 minutes ago, old3bob said:

isn't Love the only one that knows

 

By some accounts the first manifestation of this solar system was learning right energy.

 

This second manifestation is learning right relationships - love is a subset

 

The third version of this solar system is expected to learn right intent

 

The task of the fourth version is not in the literature - but I suspect it will learn right action

 

Why does duality have to progress?

 

Why do humans feel obliged to progress?

 

It may be that the duality of the non-dual and the dual is an oversimplification.   What a horror!

 

Edited 14 hours ago by Lairg

[Lairg]

12 minutes ago, old3bob said:

"why" is a dualistic type of question about non-duality, which is simple beyond regular knowing and thus  an answer other than mental speculation can not be had

 

Are some questions not allowed?

 

Is it possible for questions to operate beyond the mental level?

 

Can a question originate in Atma?

 

 

[Lairg]

When I discovered that light-dark and good-evil was not a duality but a spectrum, it became much easier to experiment with what is Real

 

 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

could also be likened to a tidal wave of black, consuming darkness coming upon us, but there are those that "stand strong' against it...