Chapter One of the TTC

[ChiDragon]

3 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

we will never understand the meaning of Wuwei.

I think you spoke too soon. Please read Chapter 51 above. 動態平衡道士

[Nungali]

51 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

 

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

 

 

 

 

 

 

virtue

/ˈvəːtʃuː/

noun

 

1. 1. 

   behaviour showing high moral standards.

   "paragons of virtue"

 

'' Virtue focuses on character traits and excellence (like courage, kindness), aiming for flourishing, while morality is a broader system of right vs. wrong judgments, often rooted in societal or personal rules; morality dictates what is right, whereas virtue is the habitual disposition to be good and act rightly, going beyond mere rule-following to embody moral excellence. Think of morality as the rules, and virtue as the developed character that naturally lives by those rules and strives for higher ideals. 

 

'' In ancient Greek, the word for virtue is Areté (ἀρετή), which means "excellence" or the "full realization of potential" in any kind of activity, not just morality; it signifies being the best you can be, whether that's physical prowess, wisdom, or moral goodness, leading to a flourishing life ... ''

... wait for it .... 

 

'' (eudaimonia). While it encompasses moral virtue, Areté is a broader concept of functional excellence, describing the peak quality of a person or thing ... '' . 

 

 

[Nungali]

41 minutes ago, Apech said:

That’s meaning no. 1 … have a look at the other 30 meanings.

 

Nah ... that process only applies to Chinese    

[DynamicEquilibrium]

7 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I think you spoke too soon. Please read Chapter 51 above. 動態平衡道士

別陰陽雙修我!! 🤣😂🤣

 

Improving my chinese with you every day teacher 正氣龍 

 

 

 

Edited 14 hours ago by DynamicEquilibrium

[Nungali]

5 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Understood, I didn't think you said that.

 

 

That's a reasonable translation.

If a human saw a wild animal drowning in a storm and rescued it, would that be interfering with nature?

 

No ... because I observe that in nature   ( with other animals ) .. ie. it is part of the natural world 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChiDragon]

13 minutes ago, steve said:

That's a reasonable translation.

If a human saw a wild animal drowning in a storm and rescued it, would that be interfering with nature?

In other words, is a human following nature trying to help other living creatures in a natural disaster?

I think the definition of wu wei is more complicated and sophisticated to explore than what can be contained in a phrase or two characters.

 

 

13 minutes ago, steve said:

 

The correct translation is let nature take its course without interfering that is causing harm to nature.

Sorry, I had left out something in the definition.
 

 

13 minutes ago, steve said:

f a human saw a wild animal drowning in a storm and rescued it, would that be interfering with nature?

In other words, is a human following nature trying to help other living creatures in a natural disaster?

I think the definition of wu wei is more complicated and sophisticated to explore than what can be contained in a phrase or two characters.

In the scenario, saving an animal was not causing harm to nature.  However, if you killed the animal, then you are not Wu Wei.
 

Edited 14 hours ago by ChiDragon

[DynamicEquilibrium]

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

No ... because I observe that in nature   ( with other animals ) .. ie. it is part of the natural world 

 

 

 

 

 

I though it was about animals eating each others, i'm disapointed 😁

[steve]

2 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

The correct translation is let nature take its course without interfering that is causing harm to nature.

 

Sorry, but I think that is too restrictive a definition of wu wei.

What if I step on a toad as I'm saving a drowning animal?

 

I'm playing with you a little here.

Forgive me.

 

 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

7 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Sorry, but I think that is too restrictive a definition of wu wei.

What if I step on a toad as I'm saving a drowning animal?

 

I'm playing with you a little here.

Forgive me.

 

 

無為 

Wu wei the action of Wu instead of non-doing can be a good translation in your opinion ? 

Edited 14 hours ago by DynamicEquilibrium

[ChiDragon]

1 minute ago, steve said:

 

Sorry, but I think that is too restrictive a definition of wu wei.

What if I step on a toad as I'm saving a drowning animal?

 

I'm playing with you a little here.

Forgive me.

 

No problem. I love it.
in this scenario, you have no intention to kill the frog, therefore, you are still Wu Wei. Intention is the keyword here. If you have an intention to kill the frog, then, you didn't let nature take its course. You are safe here. Let's put is this way, Wu Wei do not give you credit for good behavior. Only if you did something that cause harm to nature, then you get blame for it. So to speak.

[DynamicEquilibrium]

8 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

No problem. I love it.
in this scenario, you have no intention to kill the frog, therefore, you are still Wu Wei. Intention is the keyword here. If you have an intention to kill the frog, then, you didn't let nature take its course. You are safe here. Let's put is this way, Wu Wei do not give you credit for good behavior. Only if you did something that cause harm to nature, then you get blame for it. So to speak.

Agree, if you get lost alone in Amazonia jungle you better have the knowlege and skills to survive in such environnement with very dangerous animals, insects bacterias and viruses trying to kill you, even if you are vegan.

 

山術 "Mountain knowlege and skills".

Edited 14 hours ago by DynamicEquilibrium

[ChiDragon]

3 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Agree, if you get lost alone in Amazonia jungle you better have the knowlege and skills to survive in such environnement with very dangerous animals, insects bacterias and viruses trying to kill you. 

 

山術 "Mountain knowlege and skills".

Well, let nature take its course. 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

8 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Well, let nature take its course. 

Yes, let it flow with the flow 

[ChiDragon]

1 minute ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Yes, let it flow with the flow 

 

Only if you don't have a choice.

[steve]

On 12/31/2025 at 7:23 PM, ChiDragon said:

Chapter 14 The invisible Tao
1. 視之不見,名曰夷。
2. 聽之不聞,名曰希。
3. 摶之不得,名曰微。
4. 此三者不可致詰，
5. 故混而為一。­
6. 其上不皦，
7. 其下不昧，
8. 繩繩不可名，
9. 復歸於無物。
10.是謂無狀之狀，
11.無物之象，
12.是謂惚恍。
13.迎之不見其首，
14.隨之不見其後。
15.執古之道以御今之有。
16.能知古始，
17.是謂道紀。

Translated in terse English...
1. View it couldn't see, name and call it Colorless.
2. Listen to it couldn't hear, name and call it Soundless.
3. Touch it couldn't feel, name and call it Formless.
4. These three are inseparable
5. These three objects blended in one.
6. Its top is not brilliant.
7. Its bottom is not dim.
8. Its continuance is unnameable.
9. Returned to being formless(state of invisibility),
10. Is called a form of no form.
11. An image of formless,
12. Is called obscure.
13. Greet it cannot see its head.
14. Follow it cannot see its back.
15. Grasp the presence of Tao to see all existing things,
16. Able to understand the ancient origin,
17. It's called the Principles of Tao. 

 

PS

It reads just like one of the 21 Nails, a dzogchen scripture.

 

I love the connections

 

And hell if it isn’t poetic,

The highest form!

 

 

[steve]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

 

Sorry, I had left out something in the definition.
 

 

In the scenario, saving an animal was not causing harm to nature.  However, if you killed the animal, then you are not Wu Wei.
 

 

What if you kill to eat?

[ChiDragon]

4 minutes ago, steve said:

 

What if you kill to eat?

You can answer it yourself. Do you have an intend there?

Edited 13 hours ago by ChiDragon

[steve]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

You can answer it yourself.

 

agreed

[stirling]

1 hour ago, steve said:

PS

It reads just like one of the 21 Nails, a dzogchen scripture.

 

I love the connections

 

And hell if it isn’t poetic,

The highest form!

 

...and shades of the Bahiya sutta:

 

Quote

"Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya.
"When, Bahiya, for you in the seen is merely what is seen... in the cognized is merely what is cognized, then, Bahiya, you will not be 'with that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'with that,' then, Bahiya, you will not be 'in that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'in that,' then, Bahiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. Just this is the end of suffering." - Buddha, Bahiya Sutta

 

...and the Heart Sutra:

 

Quote

...form does not differ from emptiness, 
emptiness does not differ from form. 
Form itself is emptiness, emptiness itself form. 

Sensations, perceptions, formations, and consciousness are also like this. 

 

...and:

 

Quote

Shariputra, all dharmas are marked by emptiness; they neither arise nor cease,
are neither defiled nor pure, neither increase nor
decrease. Therefore, given emptiness, there is no form, no sensation, no perception, no formation, no consciousness; no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no sight, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no object of mind; no realm of sight... no realm of mind consciousness. There is neither ignorance nor extinction of ignorance... neither old age and death, nor extinction of old age and death; no suffering, no cause, no cessation, no path; no knowledge and no attainment. 

 

Truly a great document in the canon of non-dual tradtitions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stirling]

To truly understand Wu Wei, we must consider a radically different perspective on reality. Most of us assume that we exist as separate players in an world of separate players, each making their own decisions. From the perspective of the Dao, or Rigpa, or enlightened mind, this is a nonsense. The separateness can be seen in operation, but also is very obviously a delusion, once understood. It is pointed to here:

 

Quote

15. Grasp the presence of Tao to see all existing things,

 

As worded, this is a nice little joke, inside of what looks like a riddle (it isn't)... this, in my experience, is the flavor of non-duality - "its" sense of humor. When we can see "emptiness", it is clear that it is the most salient quality of all illusory things, and that what you can see in this moment is also the extent of what can be seen in this moment.This is alluded to in Dogen's (creator of the Soto Zen school) "Instructions for the Tenzo":

 

Quote

In July of the same year I was staying at Tiantongshan when the tenzo (cook) of Ayuwang shan came to see me and said, "After the summer Training Period is over I'm going to retire as tenzo and go back to my native region. I heard from a fellow monk that you were here and so I came to see how you were making out."

 

I was overjoyed. I served him tea as we sat down to talk. When I brought up our discussion on the relationship about words and practice, the tenzo said, "If you want to understand words you must look into what words are. If you want to practice, you must understand what practice is."

 

I asked, "What are words?"

The tenzo said, "One, two, three, four, five."

 

I asked again, "What is practice?"

"Everywhere, nothing is hidden."

- Instructions for the Tenzo by Eihei Dogen

 

Words are emptiness. They refer to concepts, not real things. 

 

Practice is complete presence in (non-dual) reality in this moment. This moment is everywhere/everything, there is nothing else to do - nothing is hidden. The Dao is this, here, now, without delusions of "self" and "doing" and without time/space. To be transparent and aligned with the Dao, drop the idea of doing by allowing the mind to become still, or REALIZING that the stillness of emptiness is already what permeates all experience.

 

This field of experience "we" are enveloped in acts as a whole, not as a series of parts, and the "Dao, or Rigpa, or enlightened mind" does it all without our input. Even our responses and intentions arise as part of the whole - aren't "ours". It appears that there is "doing", but what appears to be happening happens of its own accord, in timeless, spaceless awareness. Wu Wei is the happening of the phenomenal world without a subject/actor. The subject/actor has dropped away... things happen of their own accord, and are naturally taken care of, including the parts we might have thought "we" were doing. 

 

We aren't driving the car.  A person lost in the suffering of their separateness, appears to "Dao, or Rigpa, or enlightened mind" like this:

 

 

...lost in the delusion that they are in charge.

 

Arguments about how Wu Wei looks that involve how individual pieces on the chess board (animals/people/events) miss the fundamental point. It isn't up to "you'. It isn't about how "you" choose to act, or the kind of person "you" think you are. 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

3 hours ago, steve said:

 

PS

It reads just like one of the 21 Nails, a dzogchen scripture.

 

I love the connections

 

And hell if it isn’t poetic,

The highest form!

 

 

Your words are like clean and pure water 🌳

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by DynamicEquilibrium

[steve]

12 hours ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

無為 

Wu wei the action of Wu instead of non-doing can be a good translation in your opinion ? 

 

I think you would also need to translate Wu in that case but it has potential. 

[steve]

10 hours ago, stirling said:

To truly understand Wu Wei, we must consider a radically different perspective on reality. Most of us assume that we exist as separate players in an world of separate players, each making their own decisions. From the perspective of the Dao, or Rigpa, or enlightened mind, this is a nonsense. The separateness can be seen in operation, but also is very obviously a delusion, once understood.

 

Your entire post above is gold.

 

And there are layers of understanding and realization, just as there are relative and absolute truth. Reading and studying alone, even a scripture as perfect as Daodejing, can only take us so far. The mind, its activity, and its contents can only take us so far. We must make room for practice, for simply being, to appreciate the wisdom hiding behind the words. And we must be patient and kind with ourselves and each other if we want to discover something new together.

 

Although, if we trust the old masters, an occasional swift kick in the arse or thwack on the shoulder with the keisaku can be helpful too.

Edited 1 hour ago by steve