What do you think about Neidan(內丹)?

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

精 is like a microscopic living organ, it is not a sperm as one might think.
氣 is the vital source that invigorates the body. It is not an energy.
神 is the driving source of the body. It is the commander-in-chief of the body. So to speak! It is not spirit.

 

The idea of transformation of three treasures with the follow procedure.
1. Transform 精 into 氣
練精化氣: 透過適當的靜坐、呼吸法，我們可以有效地保留並強化精，達到身體健康和長壽的效果。
Through zazen and the method of breathing, we may be effectively preserve and invigorate 精. Since 精 is the structure of the body, it makes to body healthier and reach the goal of longevity.

What it is really saying here? It says we are preserving and invigorating 精 with breathing. Isn't that makes breathing is the key player here? The ancient Taoists practiced breathing and it works for them. Can they explain why it works and how it works. Yes, virtually, they had a way to express it. Somehow, they sure had made it very miserable for the modern people to understand.

I must admire the wisdom and intelligence of the Taoist. At least, they came up with the idea of Naidan seems reasonable. However, what about the part of transformation of 氣 and 神? These two processes are taken place inside the body. How do they know what was going on inside the body. Unfortunately, Taoists were explained in their own way. That is why we getting all kinds of wild stories. The problem with the stories was that they were using their esoteric terms only they can comprehend. Can you imaging those who tried to interpret and translate them without the understand of the Taoist language. Hence, we may come to a conclusion the rest of the procedures are immartial. It is because the body will take care itself. People may say whatever they want.

Edited Thursday at 12:08 AM by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

56 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

1. Transform 精 into 氣
練精化氣: 透過適當的靜坐、呼吸法，我們可以有效地保留並強化精，達到身體健康和長壽的效果。
Through zazen and the method of breathing, we may be effectively preserve and invigorate 精. Since 精 is the structure of the body, it makes to body healthier and reach the goal of longevity.

The Taoists cannot explicitly explain what was taken place inside the body, but they had given us a big clue why it works was the breathing. Luckily, they had given us a breathing method teaching us how to breathe to practice the method of Neidan.

Edited Thursday at 12:06 AM by ChiDragon

[stirling]

2 hours ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Your experience is inspiring, it resemble a blossoming without obstructions. I don't know how to call the beautiful diversity of experiences coming to a same realization, if you have an idea please tell me ! 😊

 

That is always what I hope. It is the non-dual experience as it appears to me, expressed in the simplest language I can muster. _/\_

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

The Taoists cannot explicitly explain what was taken place inside the body, but they had given us a big clue why it works was the breathing. Luckily, they had given us a breathing method teaching us how to breathe to practice the method of Neidan.

 

What is the breathing method, can you describe it?

 

[ChiDragon]

3 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

What is the breathing method, can you describe it?

 

Yes, I haven't got to it yet. 

[Antares]

3 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

練精化氣: 透過適當的靜坐、呼吸法，我們可以有效地保留並強化精，達到身體健康和長壽的效果。
Through zazen and the method of breathing, we may be effectively preserve and invigorate 精. Since 精 is the structure of the body, it makes to body healthier and reach the goal of longevity.

I hope this is not from qigong book.

I think mods should change the title of the thread. The new title should be smth like "My thoughts on qigong cultivation"

Otherwise it looks like trolling

[DynamicEquilibrium]

5 hours ago, stirling said:

 

That is always what I hope. It is the non-dual experience as it appears to me, expressed in the simplest language I can muster. _/\_

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

 

It is very interesting, i'll look into Advaita more thoroughly, so far it immediately made me think that to take a dualist approach aiming at the integration of opposites (YinYang), a careful review of the western modern concept about body and mind or Cartesian dualism may be necessary, because this type of dualism seems to be very prone to create some kind of 'absolute self-centered systems' which by definition would build walls instead of bridges between individuals and the origin of One. 

 

If you are interested in 'babel's tower spell problems,' Ferdinand de Saussure is a good reference to think about the dualistic nature of our langage behaviours. 

 

 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

Spoiler

 

3 hours ago, Antares said:

I hope this is not from qigong book.

I think mods should change the title of the thread. The new title should be smth like "My thoughts on qigong cultivation"

Otherwise it looks like trolling

Taoist troll Vs Neidan gestapo, a highly anticipated production bring to you by your grandma crossing the street!

(the fierce fight between Dragon and Tiger organized by the match maker) 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited Thursday at 06:07 AM by DynamicEquilibrium

[stirling]

44 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

It is very interesting, i'll look into Advaita more thoroughly, so far it immediately made me think that to take a dualist approach aiming at the integration of opposites (YinYang), a careful review of the western modern concept about body and mind or Cartesian dualism may be necessary, because this type of dualism seems to be very prone to create some kind of 'absolute self-centered systems' which by definition would build walls instead of bridges between individuals and the origin of One. 

 

If you are interested in 'babel's tower spell problems,' Ferdinand de Saussure is a good reference to think about the dualistic nature of our langage behaviours. 

I will message you an answer, rather than derail this thread. Anyone who would like to view the answer can PM me. _/\_

[forestofclarity]

7 hours ago, S:C said:

where do you draw the line? 
names, morals - have words a morale of their own!?

too much words, but sometimes they are needed, when the compass isn‘t aligned. then they should at least mirror the substance they carry, no?

 

I think a name, per DDJ 1, generally refers to something specific coalescing into existence. Nothing is truly fixed, but for a time it may be specific enough to warrant a name. Morality is an orientation or direction. If one's specific actions are aligned with the Dao, then this would be a more righteous action than specific actions that merely scatter energy into creation. 

 

 

[forestofclarity]

8 hours ago, stirling said:

I will message you an answer, rather than derail this thread. Anyone who would like to view the answer can PM me. _/\_

 

Why not start a new thread? 

[steve]

18 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

何必對牛彈琴!

 

Because they love music too!

Like the Dao, music is universal.

 

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/RFj01cN9nMc?si=-Yh7SF06GKRKGupU

 

[steve]

19 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

我是說他們是在針對我們!

 

More your ideas, interpretations, and the tenor of your presentation, not you personally for the most part I think.

You have your interpretation and ideas, others may hold different ones.

When it comes to this type of material, some have a great deal invested.

It is not surprising people get reactive when told they are completely wrong, especially when the subject matter is close to their heart, and it works in both directions.

I think disagreement is healthy and can lead to deeper understanding if everyone can interact with respect. 

Edited Thursday at 03:51 PM by steve

[29Gathering]

Throwing so many baits. Final comment: I will disagree with Daodejing being 1,000 years old because I know better and bow out of this thread.

Edited Thursday at 04:18 PM by 29Gathering

[DynamicEquilibrium]

17 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

The idea of transformation of three treasures with the follow procedure.
1. Transform 精 into 氣
練精化氣: 透過適當的靜坐、呼吸法，我們可以有效地保留並強化精，達到身體健康和長壽的效果。
Through zazen and the method of breathing, we may be effectively preserve and invigorate 精. Since 精 is the structure of the body, it makes to body healthier and reach the goal of longevity.

What it is really saying here? It says we are preserving and invigorating 精 with breathing. Isn't that makes breathing is the key player here? The ancient Taoists practiced breathing and it works for them. Can they explain why it works and how it works. Yes, virtually, they had a way to express it. Somehow, they sure had made it very miserable for the modern people to understand.

I must admire the wisdom and intelligence of the Taoist. At least, they came up with the idea of Naidan seems reasonable. However, what about the part of transformation of 氣 and 神? These two processes are taken place inside the body. How do they know what was going on inside the body. Unfortunately, Taoists were explained in their own way. That is why we getting all kinds of wild stories. The problem with the stories was that they were using their esoteric terms only they can comprehend. Can you imaging those who tried to interpret and translate them without the understand of the Taoist language. Hence, we may come to a conclusion the rest of the procedures are immartial. It is because the body will take care itself. People may say whatever they want.

Is the method you are presenting emphazising 清靜無為？ 

If that's the case, my impression about the word 'breathing' in your posts was completly wrong.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 05:01 PM by DynamicEquilibrium

[ChiDragon]

27 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Is the method you are presenting emphazising 清靜無為？ 

If that's the case, my impression about the word 'breathing' in your posts was completly wrong.

 

 

清静無為 is the philosophy from the TTC and it was advocated by Loatze. The idea is "let nature take its course." It was not suggested nor related to breathing at all.

[DynamicEquilibrium]

 @Antares 

 

Please, can you confirm or infirm that  伍柳派 emphasize  炼已  as a 'channel' leading to 築基 ? 

Also, do you have a lineage name or not in this school, or another or not? 

 

 

 

 

 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

14 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

清静無為 is the philosophy from the TTC and it was advocated by Loatze. The idea is "let nature take its course." It was not suggested nor related to breathing at all.

In the context of the method i mentioned i mean. 

Edited Thursday at 05:50 PM by DynamicEquilibrium

[ChiDragon]

3 hours ago, steve said:

I think disagreement is healthy and can lead to deeper understanding if everyone can interact with respect. 

Ofc they can react. I welcome any disagreement. I always compare the new information with my mental reference. Just recently I have changed the concept of the three treasures, 精气神。I did a mental update on the subject. I had found out that I was completely wrong from reading the same misinformation over and over. Finally, I have different understanding about 精气神。I just wanted to share here. People might agree with it. However, if people understand the concept of 性命双修 and practiced, then their objection wouldn't be over reacted.

Edited Thursday at 06:41 PM by ChiDragon

[Master Logray]

2 hours ago, steve said:

 

More your ideas, interpretations, and the tenor of your presentation, not you personally for the most part I think.

You have your interpretation and ideas, others may hold different ones.

When it comes to this type of material, some have a great deal invested.

It is not surprising people get reactive when told they are completely wrong, especially when the subject matter is close to their heart, and it works in both directions.

 

 

May be we view this thread, only this thread,  in this way.   As Apech pointed out:

 

On 12/24/2025 at 9:02 AM, Apech said:

 

If you are a spectator of a virtual concept, which has no physical proof, trying to understand the principle of something you don’t believe in, then why did you start a thread called the practice of neidan? Can you explain this because I am lost at this point.

 

 

If we go to any specific subject board/forum, but we don't believe in their basic concepts, and we are having no experience of it, yet we use AI to translate some random texts and tell them what their interest really is, with some really doubtful statements.  It would not be received amicably, and could be viewed as provocation.    The matter is about how it is done but not about differences in opinion.  

 

Indeed if the title is rectified as below.   It would be easier for everyone.

15 hours ago, Antares said:

I think mods should change the title of the thread. The new title should be smth like "My thoughts on qigong cultivation"

Otherwise it looks like trolling

 

[DynamicEquilibrium]

17 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

In the context of the method i mentioned i mean. 

@ChiDragon my bad, i thought i wrote 靜功 somewhere! 

[ChiDragon]

15 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

In the context of the method i mentioned i mean. 

I think I had made it very clear. 清静無為 was not applying to breathing. If it did apply,  then I wouldn't be breathing at all.

[ChiDragon]

7 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

@ChiDragon my bad, i thought i wrote 靜功 somewhere! 

Yes, that would be as 静功 due to performing zazen and by definition. 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Is the method you are presenting emphazising 清靜無為？ 

If that's the case, my impression about the word 'breathing' in your posts was completly wrong.

 

 

Would you like to rephrase that. So, a non-native English speaker can understand it. Thank you!

[DynamicEquilibrium]

47 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I think I had made it very clear. 清静無為 was not applying to breathing. If it did apply,  then I wouldn't be breathing at all.

What about reverse situation, does breathing applies as a step to 清静無為 in the seated meditation method you are presenting? 

 

Slow natural abdominal breathing is good to calm the mind, it activates the parasympathetic nervous system etc, it may also reduce oxydative stress, and in such situation the body may consume less oxygen than in other situations.  

Edited Thursday at 07:00 PM by DynamicEquilibrium