The practice of Neidan(內丹)

[ChiDragon]

內丹術 is just a virtual concept by the ancient Taoist. There was no physical proof. It is the principle that matters. If you think you understand it, then, practice it the way you think it is. If it works for you, congratulation! 
 

I am only a spectator trying to understand what the principle was. I might not believe it. At least, I am trying to figure out what it is saying with the best of my knowledge in my disturbed and distorted mind.   

Edited 13 hours ago by ChiDragon

[Apech]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

內丹術 is just a virtual concept by the ancient Taoist. There was no physical proof. It is the principle that matters. If you think you understand it, then, practice it the way you think it is. If it works for you, congratulation! 
 

I am only a spectator trying to understand what the principle was. I might not believe it. At least, I am trying to figure out what it is saying with the best of my knowledge in my disturbed and distorted mind.   

ok

 

If you are a spectator of a virtual concept, which has no physical proof, trying to understand the principle of something you don’t believe in, then why did you start a thread called the practice of neidan? Can you explain this because I am lost at this point.

 

 

[ChiDragon]

18 minutes ago, Apech said:

ok

 

If you are a spectator of a virtual concept, which has no physical proof, trying to understand the principle of something you don’t believe in, then why did you start a thread called the practice of neidan? Can you explain this because I am lost at this point.

 

 

 

Thank you kindly. I was really going to bring out the universal and authentic Neidan procedure at the end of the thread. However, since I have so many objections and rejections. Some people had already made up their mind that I am full of you know what. So, might as well just say that I don't believe it. Actually, I only believe it partially. I only believed in the preservation of the Jing. The part about the transformation of Chi and Shen is very vague.

Edited 11 hours ago by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

So a 'vital force' and a 'driving force' is not an energy?  Hmm.  Energy just means the capacity to do work ... or to effect change in some way.  So anything which is a vital force must be by definition an energy.

The modern Chinese interpreted as 動力。 I don't think it means energy. It should be said that it is a vital factor and a driving factor. If we said it this way, then we can do away with any misleading terms.

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by ChiDragon

[DynamicEquilibrium]

@ChiDragon

Impossible to operate a software without hardware. 

 

In the same way, impossible to separate intangible phenomenas from tangible ones, just like we can't separate meanings from caracters, letters, words and sentences etc. 

 

If this is what you meant in this thread from the beginning, i couldn't agree more with you. 

 

If you used AI to prove a point about virtuality, you are really naughty because AI is somewhat a symptomatic reflection of the body/mind differenciation disease affecting human beings in various ways. 

 

Please have a look at this article 

 

https://qi-encyclopedia.com/article.php?&id=47

 

Without 理, no ways to explore  氣, 性 and 命 real meanings.  

 

We can't reasonably blame Neidan people for having no interest in discovering the 理 of things, it might break their hearts into pieces doing so and you know how it is difficult to heal a heart arising from a stone hard 信 within one's 命 after it was broken, especially if it was the main 'frequency'. 

 

By the way, if we speak about resonance between living beings and between living beings and the nature, we can't use terms like 'vibratory frequencies' or 'quantum entaglements' from physics anymore, it would ruin the feeling. 

 

Emphasizing the meaning and value of '求大同, 存小異, 和而不同, 周而不比, 齊物共生' is what i will try my best to do here. 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by DynamicEquilibrium

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

If you used AI to prove a point about virtuality, you are really naughty because AI is a symptomatic reflection of the body/mind differenciation disease affecting human beings in various ways. 

 

Thank you. Let me put it this way. Before the AI was invented. I Had already researched the information and stored in my head. I had filtered out the distorted and unwanted information. The definition are very straight forward. I used as my reference to reason with any doubt. I always update these information as new idea comes along. As I am interacting with the members, here, I am also learning from them. I wouldn't be prejudice about using AI. It is because some of the information online is no longer available for me. I had discovered by using AI, it can bring back the information for me and save me a lot of time. Based on my mental reference, I am at a point that I can spot what is useful to me or not with reason and logic. I will never say that was not it without reasoning. I wouldn't just say no and that was not it and stop from there. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here this long trying to reason with the members.   

 

Every time I am making a point I get side tracked. People think I am using AI to snow everybody without reasons. I just have to swallow it. The cultivation of 性 and 命 I had translated, once, few years back from the explanation of 王重陽, the Taoist priest himself. In return I got various disparaging remarks or even got banned for the manner. To make the story short. Why should it be a problem I am relying on AI to get the information when it's true. If someone put a gun through my head, I still would say the same thing with no regret.

When a term comes up, people start citing with irrelevant information for their argument has no merit. In one case, someone cited some Chinese phrases out of nowhere and ask me to translated as his argument. He didn't even know what he was asking. That was ridiculous. 

Edited 6 hours ago by ChiDragon

[DynamicEquilibrium]

15 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 

Thank you. Let me put it this way. Before the AI was invented. I Had already researched the information and stored in my head. I had filtered out the distorted and unwanted information. The definition are very straight forward. I used as my reference to reason with any doubt. I always update these information as new idea comes along. As I am interacting with the members, here, I am also learning from them. I wouldn't be prejudice about using AI. It is because some of the information online is no longer available for me. I had discovered by using AI, it can bring back the information for me and save me a lot of time. Based on my mental reference, I am at a point that I can spot what is useful to me or not with reason and logic. I will never say that was not it without reasoning. I wouldn't just say no and that was not it and stop from there. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here this long trying to reason with the members.   

 

Every time I am making a point I get side tracked. People think I am using AI to snow everybody without reasons. I just have to swallow it. The cultivation of 性 and 命 I had translated, once, few years back from the explanation of 王重陽, the Taoist priest himself. In return I got various disparaging remarks or even got banned for the manner. To make the story short. Why should it be a problem I am relying on AI to get the information when it's true. If someone put a gun through my head, I still would say the same thing with no regret.

 

You are a real 君子 who 自強不

息, as you said, no wonder the friendly gesture. I respect you very much, your words tells everything about quality. 

 

 

[Antares]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

Can you explain this because I am lost at this point.

 

This case is about basic psychology. In Daoism, nothing serious can be achieved without a teacher. That’s a law. But there are people who want to deceive the Dao and themselves. I have read on this forum that some people believe it's possible to achieve 'transmission of knowledge' directly from the Dao and that a teacher is not necessary. This approach is dangerous both for those who believe in this concept and for others to whom they spread these ideas. This is another reason why no one will widely share their practice and knowledge —  these people will start inventing their own methods, achieving 'significant' results as they see it, and then teaching others while also making money from it. Such cases have happened more than once. ChiDragon is trying to convince himself that he is doing everything right,  he doesn't need the opinions of others. He is here to teach. The outcome of such an approach leads to deviations that become increasingly difficult to correct over time, and in some cases some people can descend into madness. They no longer understand what is happening to them

[DynamicEquilibrium]

24 minutes ago, Antares said:

This case is about basic psychology. In Daoism, nothing serious can be achieved without a teacher. That’s a law. But there are people who want to deceive the Dao and themselves. I have read on this forum that some people believe it's possible to achieve 'transmission of knowledge' directly from the Dao and that a teacher is not necessary. This approach is dangerous both for those who believe in this concept and for others to whom they spread these ideas. This is another reason why no one will widely share their practice and knowledge —  these people will start inventing their own methods, achieving 'significant' results as they see it, and then teaching others while also making money from it. Such cases have happened more than once. ChiDragon is trying to convince himself that he is doing everything right,  he doesn't need the opinions of others. He is here to teach. The outcome of such an approach leads to deviations that become increasingly difficult to correct over time, and in some cases some people can descend into madness. They no longer understand what is happening to them

How to know that he or anyone else did recieve high quality family education or not ? From spiritual powers ? 

[Master Logray]

2 hours ago, Antares said:

ChiDragon..... He is here to teach. 

 

Coincidentally I mentioned quite some time ago his intention was to teach.   He was quite unhappy towards my observation.

[ChiDragon]

28 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

Coincidentally I mentioned quite some time ago his intention was to teach.   He was quite unhappy towards my observation.

 

Haha! How could I intend to teach? There is no student here. I am so lonely here. I just want to find someone that I can talk to. Hopefully, we can share some common knowledge. 

Edited 2 hours ago by ChiDragon

[Apech]

8 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

 

Thank you kindly. I was really going to bring out the universal and authentic Neidan procedure at the end of the thread. However, since I have so many objections and rejections. Some people had already made up their mind that I am full of you know what. So, might as well just say that I don't believe it. Actually, I only believe it partially. I only believed in the preservation of the Jing. The part about the transformation of Chi and Shen is very vague.

Is there any chance you could outline your basic ideas about how to do Neidan.  For instance what is the Dan in your opinion.

 

[Antares]

57 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I just want to find someone that I can talk to. Hopefully, we can share some common knowledge.

 

3 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

When a term comes up, people start citing with irrelevant information for their argument has no merit. In one case, someone cited some Chinese phrases out of nowhere and ask me to translated as his argument

 

Yeah, Daoist texts have no merit but ChiDragon' understanding that he has got through AI has it.

 

9 minutes ago, Apech said:

Is there any chance you could outline your basic ideas about how to do Neidan.  For instance what is the Dan in your opinion.

 

It does not exist, Daoist made it up. You just have to be "real man" that means: you should be well-read, smart, able to communicate with AI, have biceps, English boots, and you also need to help grandmothers cross the street.

[Apech]

12 minutes ago, Antares said:

 

 

Yeah, Daoist texts have no merit but ChiDragon' understanding that he has got through AI has it.

 

 

It does not exist, Daoist made it up. You just have to be "real man" that means: you should be well-read, smart, able to communicate with AI, have biceps, English boots, and you also need to help grandmothers cross the street.

As an incomplete saint I help grandmothers halfway across the street.  Not perfect but working on it.

 

 

[cake1234566]

@ChiDragon Have you read 炁体源流 by 张至顺?
Its a modern collection of classic neidan materials with commentary by a taoist hermit
Back to the original topic its very close to the neidan that I practice, good source to learn about quanzhen imo
Also, theres quite a bit of variation in neidan in the other lineages but within a given lineage things are (mostly) consistent from what ive seen
There's some really out there stuff from Wang Wengqing for example

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

Is there any chance you could outline your basic ideas about how to do Neidan.  For instance what is the Dan in your opinion.

 

Sure, gladly.
It starts with TCM. Dan, 丹, is just a pill. It is no different in Western medicine. At first, the Taoist started with the idea of using poisonous chemicals to make pills. The intention of the pills was assumed to make them live longer. However, they took the final product and caused death. Eventually, they tried and tried to bake it in a cauldron and blew up. That was how gunpowder was invented by the Chinese, by the way. 

 

So, Taoists thought, since the external method failed. Let's try it internally. They thought there must be something in the body to make it function. They thought the material that makes up the body structure is 精(jing). Something that vitalizes the body is 氣(Qi), Something that drives the body is 神(shen). The three items were called as three treasures. It was assumed they interacted with one another to form an internal pill. The purpose of the pill was for longevity. Instead of calling it a pill, it was called Elixir.

So far, this is the introduction of the pill per your request. We will go into the procedure in the next post.

 

PS It is getting late, I must go to bed now. See you all at sunrise! TBC

Edited 1 hour ago by ChiDragon

[S:C]

12 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

trying to understand what the principle was. I might not believe it. At least, I am trying to figure out what it is saying with the best of my knowledge in my disturbed and distorted mind.  

Do you realize you are doing the agitation and propaganda section of any modern (e.g. anti-cultural) and authoritarian party (think: CPC / CCP e.g.) a favor with spreading even more confusion and distortions about and thereby further destroying wisdom of the old? Word Wizards, are you doing any good?!
 

If you want to share something you experience, why not share that in simple words of your own? Maybe at some time, someone comments on your experience/perception resembling something known in cultural phenomena of old wisdom?

 

 

[ChiDragon]

Is it that serious and you are not overreacting?

[S:C]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

Is it that serious and you are not overreacting?

It is serious but I often am overreacting.  

[cake1234566]

A bit off topic but the ccp is actually pretty supportive of taoism in the modern day, theres plenty of other things wrong there like their treatment of vajrayana and tibetans in general but lets not accuse members of being government agents hahaha

[DynamicEquilibrium]

1 minute ago, cake1234566 said:

A bit off topic but the ccp is actually pretty supportive of taoism in the modern day, theres plenty of other things wrong there like their treatment of vajrayana and tibetans in general but lets not accuse members of being government agents hahaha

 

https://bitterwinter.org/daoism-under-sinicization-4-the-sad-life-of-sinicized-daoists/?fbclid=IwQ0xDSwKQoLdjbGNrApCgnGV4dG4DYWVtAjExAAEevMDiTAgs7o_2i-OQ54tr80sQChVtYfRi1JZ2kbinRSIB3nF034DNwets5u8_aem_c95HkgTxDxPsGb4HoOedvw

 

They don't wear British boots that's for sure. 

 

[S:C]

20 minutes ago, cake1234566 said:

the ccp is actually pretty supportive of taoism in the modern day

 

Spoiler

 

Edited 25 minutes ago by S:C

[MIchael80]

52 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Sure, gladly.
It starts with TCM. Dan, 丹, is just a pill. It is no different in Western medicine. At first, the Taoist started with the idea of using poisonous chemicals to make pills. The intention of the pills was assumed to make them live longer. However, they took the final product and caused death. Eventually, they tried and tried to bake it in a cauldron and blew up. That was how gunpowder was invented by the Chinese, by the way. 

 

So, Taoists thought, since the external method failed. Let's try it internally. They thought there must be something in the body to make it function. They thought the material that makes up the body structure is 精(jing). Something that vitalizes the body is 氣(Qi), Something that drives the body is 神(shen). The three items were called as three treasures. It was assumed they interacted with one another to form an internal pill. The purpose of the pill was for longevity. Instead of calling it a pill, it was called Elixir.

So far, this is the introduction of the pill per your request. We will go into the procedure in the next post.

 

PS It is getting late, I must go to bed now. See you all at sunrise! TBC

Ah,.... you are just trolling us arent you!? 

I mean co'mon! 

That can be serious! 

That sounds like from a kid who has watched some taoist movies and heard a bit here and there about TCM etc. and comes up with his own childish story.

[Cobie]

 

19 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

... you are just trolling us arent you!? ... childish story.

 

CD is not a troll, he is very genuine always. And his views are based on a lifetime of serious study and practice.  

All this agitation about a different opinion, expressed politely - should make you think about your own prejudices.

 

 

54 minutes ago, S:C said:

... agitation and propaganda section of any ... authoritarian party (think: CPC / CCP e.g.) ...

 

  If this was the case, it would be of the utmost importance to study CD's view - forewarned is forearmed.   

 

 

43 minutes ago, cake1234566 said:

... lets not accuse members of being government agents ...

 

I second that. 

 

 

Edited 1 minute ago by Cobie

[DynamicEquilibrium]

19 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

Ah,.... you are just trolling us arent you!? 

I mean co'mon! 

That can be serious! 

That sounds like from a kid who has watched some taoist movies and heard a bit here and there about TCM etc. and comes up with his own childish story.

Need help to cross the street?