The practice of Neidan(內丹)

[ChiDragon]

3 hours ago, Antares said:

 

 

Alright, if you care how would you translate and understand this one here:

古圣有言曰命由性修  性由命立 命者炁也性者神也炁  则本不离神神则有时  离炁

 

and this 炁则本不离神 ?

The ancient sage had said: The body(命) existed was by the cultivation of the mind(性). The mind came about was because of the body. The body was made by Chi substance. The mind is the driving force which is called shen. Chi was never separated from Shen. However, sometimes, shen was separated from Chi.

 

炁则本不离神: Chi was never separated from Shen.

 

Whether this make any sense or not. This is the closest translation that I could come up with!

Edited Sunday at 09:13 PM by ChiDragon

[Wordless]

Putting into question the existence of Chi and the Dao on a mainly daoist forum in a topic about the practice of neidan......

I'll leave it at that...

[ChiDragon]

33 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

@ChiDragon , this speech given in 1922 may inspire you: 

 

http://www.millionbook.com/mj/l/liangqichao/000/055.htm

Yes, it really resonated with me. Every word seems pinching my heart. Thank you for sharing. I really appreciated and enjoy reading it. _/\_

Edited Sunday at 07:49 PM by ChiDragon

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Do you why they can't find Chi? It is because Chi doesn't exist.

I will call you Dragon from now on

[ChiDragon]

9 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I will call you Dragon from now on

 

Thank you very much.

If you have ever found Chi, please put it back on top of my head.  

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

28 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 

Thank you very much.

If you have ever found Chi, please put it back on top of my head.  

I just can’t imagine practicing qigong or tai chi for decades and not ever feeling qi.

 

Surely the thought that there might be something wrong with whatever you are practicing must have occurred once.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:56 PM by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-

[Apech]

1 minute ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I just can’t imagine practicing qigong or tai chi for decades and not ever feeling qi.

 

Surely the thought that there might be wrong with whatever you are practicing must have occurred once.

 

 

 

 

I practiced Aikido for years because I wanted to learn about ki.  I would say nearly everyone I practiced with, including teachers, did not believe ki was real, but at best a kind of metaphor.  I practiced qi gong/tai chi also for years and while the teachers did teach qi as real, most of the (western) pupils also did not really believe in it.

 

I was kind of lucky because before that I had practiced meditation for years (mostly unguided and self taught) but qi sensitivity developed naturally without any real technical effort.  I can quite see how someone could practice for a long time just physically and never recognise qi.  It would be natural in this case to conclude that it doesn't exist.  The odd thing is, it is quite easy and natural to get qi sensitivity (I don't mean dramatic powers just the awareness of it in the body) - I think most people would get it if pointed in the right direction.  But I am not sure how common it is.

 

 

[Cobie]

氣 represented steam rising from a pot of cooking rice, symbolizing qi

[Cobie]

Aikido (kanji 合気道) from (Chinese han4 zi4) 合 氣 道 (he2 qi4 dao4) join qi method

[Apech]

9 minutes ago, Cobie said:

氣 represented steam rising from a pot of cooking rice, symbolizing qi

and?

[Cobie]

In Chinese Taoist inner alchemy, the concepts of Kan (坎) and Li (離)relate to a spiritual "steaming" process. This practice involves reversing the natural flow of the body's water (Kan) and fire (Li) elements to cultivate vital energy and promote health. 
 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:32 PM by Cobie

[Cobie]

In Aikido (kanji 合気道) the 合 represents a pot and lid above it that fits nicely i.e. not too much steam, just the right amount of qi.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:36 PM by Cobie

[Cobie]

I got in touch with qi age c. 30, I became free of qi age c. 60. Imo qi is breaking into the conscious of repressed sexual energy. A person that had not repressed anything, would never experience qi.

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I just can’t imagine practicing qigong or tai chi for decades and not ever feeling qi.

 

Surely the thought that there might be something wrong with whatever you are practicing must have occurred once.

 

 If you are really interested how I feel about Chi. I can only feel the tremendous energy in my muscles. The Taiji practitioners are considered that as Jin(勁).

Edited Sunday at 10:58 PM by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

I practiced Aikido for years because I wanted to learn about ki

 

合気道 Before I realize what it is, I was assumed it was a form of Qigong is because the chi character is in the name. However, after I investigated, I'd found out it just happened to be a form of self defence techniques like push-hands in Taiji.

Edited Sunday at 11:08 PM by ChiDragon

[Apech]

14 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 

合気道 Before I realize what it is, I was assumed it was a form of Qigong is because the chi character is in the name. However, after I investigated, I'd found out it just happened to be a form of self defence techniques like push-hands in Taiji.

and so?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

30 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 

 If you are really interested how I feel about Chi. I can only feel the tremendous energy in my muscles. The Taiji practitioners are considered that as Jin(勁).

So with this very limited experience we are expected to trust what you say about neidan?

[Wordless]

57 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

If you are really interested how I feel about Chi. I can only feel the tremendous energy in my muscles. The Taiji practitioners are considered that as Jin(勁).

Can't believe the amount of times i've mentioned the Yi Jin Jing in the past 24 hours, but here we are again....

Muscles are not very conductive to qi..... the fact that you only feel energy there and it's a "tremendous energy", i don't consider a positive sign. I think whatever your practice is, you need to slow down, go back to the very basics and slowly move your attention from within, outwards and ensure there isn't any problems...

Maybe get into your wuji stance and get everything relaxed, ensuring there's no feeling of strain or contracted/closed off muscles and methodically check your body with your attention.

 

[Antares]

5 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

炁则本不离神: Chi was never separated from Shen.

So according to your concept your shen does not exist.

 

3 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I will call you Dragon from now on

 

ATPDragon

[Antares]

6 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

he body(命) existed was by the cultivation of the mind(性)

This is very simplified and incorrect understanding of the original text. 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

So according to your concept your shen does not exist.

Please don't try to argue with me. I only do the translation per your request using the Taoist definition as I understood. It doesn't imply that I belive it. Besides, I do not expect the TDBs to believe what I believe.  

Edited yesterday at 02:58 AM by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

This is very simplified and incorrect understanding of the original text. 

According to the classic, how would you interpret it?

[Antares]

7 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I only do the translation per your request using the Taoist definition

I only said your translation was not in accordance with Daoist definition of 命

9 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

as I understood

That' the matter

 

10 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

It doesn't imply that I belive it. Besides, I do not expect the TDBs to believe what I believe.  

In this case this thread must be moved to "Fitness and Calisthenics" subforum 

[ChiDragon]

11 minutes ago, Antares said:

I only said your translation was not in accordance with Daoist definition of 命

That is only your opinion. Perhaps your definition is different than mine.

[ChiDragon]

51 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

using the Taoist definition as I understood.

This is what I meant. Please keep my quote in context.