My misconceptions

[stirling]

16 hours ago, Cobie said:

For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? (Matthew 16:2)

 

From my perspective, considered as a non-dual/no-self koan,  this looks like a trick question. 

[Keith108]

3 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Informally, this is also a technique in Soto Zen (all Zen?). The student is instructed to just sit, with no technique or instruction. What naturally happens (of course!) is that the mind runs riot making the sitter feel crazy. With practice the student eventually finds that the mind runs out of material and becomes still for brief periods of time. I have never recommended this practice, or met a student I thought would benefit from it, though I have met other teachers who have. 

 

I prefer the Bönpo version.

 

Probably half of Zen, or thereabouts.

 

The Linji/Korean Seon/Rinzai instruction is to investigate the hwadu (word - head). In the Korean tradition, we raise the question "what am I?". This strong self inquiry serves to do the same thing - exhaust the discursive mind, and cause a shift of view. 

 

_/|\_

Keith

 

 

[Keith108]

22 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

human beings and I'd say all other types of created beings evolve, devolve or change... Spirit/Buddha nature/The Self/or your preferred term/ do not.  But with beings that are going through particular  changes  one could say there are changing levels, states, or phases.  Imo such is depicted in the Tibetan wheel of life.  Cryptic like sayings about the absolute have different strokes for different folks.

 

 

 

This reminds of the "two truths" model of looking at the world. Ultimately, there is no enlightenment/nothing to do.

 

And yet, from a mundane viewpoint, practice is necessary. A shift away from self - reference (kensho) is necessary. Digesting the experience is necessary. In other words, stages. But to think of it terms of stages reifies the self view. 

 

So, we just practice and see what happens!

 

The best words I have ever read on the subject can be found here: Bassui's Talk on One Mind.

 

_/|\_

Keith

[Keith108]

Here is poem about the thing that never changes:

 

Quote

Coming empty-handed, going empty-handed – that is human.
When you are born, where do you come from?
When you die, where do you go?
Life is like a floating cloud which appears.
Death is like a floating cloud which disappears.
The floating cloud itself originally does not exist.
Life and death, coming and going, are also like that.
But there is one thing which always remains clear.
It is pure and clear, not depending on life and death.

Then what is the one pure and clear thing?

 

From here. 

 

[Mark Foote]

On 12/4/2025 at 6:04 PM, Tommy said:

Am I wrong to think there is no phases or levels? 
 

 

 

Working on a post in response to your last question, about "chop wood carry water"--something from that writing:

 

 

Zen teachers demonstrate the relinquishment of volitive activity in the body in favor of the free location of “one-pointedness of mind”, constantly. Reb Anderson observed such demonstrations in the actions of Shunryu Suzuki:

 

… I remember (Suzuki’s) dharma talks and I remember him in the zendo—that was wonderful teaching. I remember him moving rocks—wonderful teaching. I remember seeing him eat—that was wonderful teaching. He was teaching all the time in every situation. But when he couldn't sit anymore and couldn't walk anymore, he still taught right from there. 

(Reb Anderson, from a 1995 recording:  https://www.cuke.com/people/anderson-reb.htm)
 

 

In the parlance of Gautama:

 

And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’.  

 

(SN 35.146, tr. Pali Text Society vol IV p 85)

 

As to "one-pointedness of mind":
 

In my experience, “one-pointedness” occurs when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a singular location in the body, and a person “lays hold of one-pointedness” when they remain awake as the singular location shifts.

(Just to Si

t)

 

“One-pointedness of mind” occurs out of necessity, in the course of an inhalation or exhalation. The subtle necessity of posture or carriage can induce one-pointedness in seated meditation and in daily living, again in the course of an inhalation or exhalation.

 

 

"Phases" or "levels" in concentration may have to do with the way "one-pointedness of mind" coordinates reflex activity to shift the fascia behind the sacrum and spine rearward to support the nerve exits between vertebrae, and thereby open the body to the placement of "one-pointedness" anywhere in the body.  Forsaking "one-pointedness" for the particulars drops the ball, ignoring "one-pointedness" in the apprehension of the particulars also drops the ball. 

Fortunately we still breathe. Not really levels in the necessity of that, only in opening the body appropriately.