stirling Posted 23 hours ago 4 hours ago, old3bob said: thus a contrivance of non-contrivance or bypassing, How so? 4 hours ago, old3bob said: many here could also state or quote all sorts of transcendent stuff but such doesn't really cut it... Aren't you throwing out the baby with the bathwater? 4 hours ago, old3bob said: and which can be dangerous for new and even some advanced students. How so? What danger? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 22 hours ago 1 hour ago, stirling said: ...... How so? What danger? '' Ahhhhh ..... that's 'better' ? '' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stirling Posted 22 hours ago 8 minutes ago, Nungali said: '' Ahhhhh ..... that's 'better' ? '' Trepanation - it's what's good for the nation! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted 22 hours ago (edited) 9 hours ago, stirling said: The topic of this thread is a Zen expression, "don't know mind", that is a conceptual description of the mind clear, still, and ready for anything, arrived at by allow the mind to come to a stop. It isn't a practice, concept, or religious belief (a baby in the bath water) it is precisely the lack of ANY effort or contrivance of the mind. It is mind "as it is", arrived at by allowing to come to a stop of its own accord. It is simply being enlightened mind in this moment. It is dropping process, technique and maps completely and finding enlightenment in this moment, if only temporarily. This is the essence of Zen. "so much that they refer to fellow humans as something 'other'"--Nungali. Join with me then, Nungali, in applauding Stirling for writing the entire paragraph quoted above without a single use of the pronoun, "you". Everyone here knows that we're only talking to ourselves, right? Nobody else here, except the cat: But seriously, I like it when we address ourselves. "... arrived at by allowing the mind to come to a stop"--yes, but once a person is altogether "here", practice occurs and "the fundamental point" is actualized, right? When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. (“Genjo Koan [Actualizing the Fundamental Point]”, tr. Kazuaki Tanahashi, included in his “Enlightenment Unfolds”) Dogen continued: When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point… (ibid) (Dogen was convinced he was talking to someone else--so sad.) I would say the activity of the body can be entirely “reflex movement” occasioned by the placement of attention. To remain awake as the location of attention shifts and activity of the body takes place is “just to sit”. The freedom of “your way at this moment” is touched on in daily living through “your place where you are”. That’s my take. Find the place, remain awake and find the way at this moment--practice occurs and the singular point of consciousness is actualized. Edited 20 hours ago by Mark Foote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 20 hours ago (edited) 3 hours ago, stirling said: How so? Aren't you throwing out the baby with the bathwater? How so? What danger? nope, just mean to say that lovely quotes won't really cut it when one is dangling somewhere, yet they do have a purpose not to be denied. Btw if one does not know of the dangers then I'd say one will meet such sooner or later. Edited 20 hours ago by old3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 16 hours ago That sounded rather ......... ominous . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 16 hours ago 5 hours ago, Mark Foote said: "so much that they refer to fellow humans as something 'other'"--Nungali. Join with me then, Nungali, in applauding Stirling for writing the entire paragraph quoted above without a single use of the pronoun, "you". Everyone here knows that we're only talking to ourselves, right? Nobody else here, except the cat: No . I talk to myself but here I write for others to read . 5 hours ago, Mark Foote said: 5 hours ago, Mark Foote said: But seriously, I like it when we address ourselves. 'We' ? 5 hours ago, Mark Foote said: "... arrived at by allowing the mind to come to a stop"--yes, but once a person is altogether "here", practice occurs and "the fundamental point" is actualized, right? I am of no mind about it . 5 hours ago, Mark Foote said: When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. (“Genjo Koan [Actualizing the Fundamental Point]”, tr. Kazuaki Tanahashi, included in his “Enlightenment Unfolds”) Dogen continued: When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point… (ibid) (Dogen was convinced he was talking to someone else--so sad.) I would say the activity of the body can be entirely “reflex movement” occasioned by the placement of attention. To remain awake as the location of attention shifts and activity of the body takes place is “just to sit”. The freedom of “your way at this moment” is touched on in daily living through “your place where you are”. That’s my take. Find the place, remain awake and find the way at this moment--practice occurs and the singular point of consciousness is actualized. I am in my way at this moment , I am in my place where I am ( and live here daily ) . I found it decades ago and before that I have been awake since 1965 . The way at this moment moves towards dinner time . I shall practice my cooking . ... and try to be single pointed conscious in doing it . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SodaChanh Posted 15 hours ago 4 hours ago, old3bob said: nope, just mean to say that lovely quotes won't really cut it when one is dangling somewhere, yet they do have a purpose not to be denied. Btw if one does not know of the dangers then I'd say one will meet such sooner or later. If one is intellectualising awakening Life will throw things at you to shake things up in your system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SodaChanh Posted 13 hours ago One thing I have learned by sitting everyday doing nothing is to let the mind do its thing and just watch it by not reacting or following stories. Also being verbally quiet and let it air out until there is no reaction left in the body-mind. This is undoing the do-er which itself is an object in awareness. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lairg Posted 2 hours ago (edited) 10 hours ago, SodaChanh said: One thing I have learned by sitting everyday doing nothing is to let the mind do its thing and just watch it by not reacting or following stories. The human needs to establish control of its mind. Control and refinement of the mind is a critical step in achieving first stage enlightenment Second stage enlightenment is based on control and refinement of the heart Edited 2 hours ago by Lairg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
