Zhan Zhuang is Not for Beginners

[steve]

I think if we stand simply for the sake of standing, with no expectations or demands on ourselves, there is little risk of harm and it can be a wonderful practice, even for beginners.

If we stand to reach some objective, with a certain set of expectations. that is when we tend to cause problems for ourselves.

 

I find standing practice to be a great way to introduce people to meditation.

It is less challenging in many ways than seated meditation and has additional physical benefits.

 

 

[dwai]

11 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I think if we stand simply for the sake of standing, with no expectations or demands on ourselves

 

That is a wonderful gateway to meditation. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, Antares said:

@-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- I know you do Rudi' neigong. Interesting if there Is ZZ stance on chest level in level 1?

Yes, something similar to it

[Antares]

2 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Yes, something similar to it

I know that smth similar to ZZ is in Temple Style neigong but it is called "Taiji Stance" there. And it is not static, but can be seen as static one if smb watches you. And it is done no longer than 10 minutes. (May be somebody does it for longer period of time, I dunno)

In Yiquan there is similar one as well and it is done as combo - you stand still lets say for 5 minutes and then you should do micro-movements in "taiji stance", and I dont think in the beginning they do it longer than 10-20 minutes on the chest level.

 

[steve]

This may qualify as one of those unpopular opinions but I think people are more likely to harm themselves with sitting meditation than with standing meditation, both physically and mentally.

[Forestgreen]

7 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

I didn't say a martial artist. I said martial arts practitionerS. 

How do you differentiate a martial artist from martial arts practitioners?

 

And why not go from someone eho focus on Taoist energetic arts,  since the term is wuji?

 

I prefer Bruce Frantzis definition of the stance, it is more logical than Damo Mitchell's. Bruce names the stance you described,  btw. 

[Master Logray]

Wuji is only a name for this stance.   It doesn't mean by doing it can reach Wuji.   Giving meanings into this simplest stance defeats the very purpose - simplicity.     

[Antares]

1 minute ago, Master Logray said:

it can reach Wuji

If you reach Wuji

You are LaoJi

[ChiDragon]

36 minutes ago, Antares said:

If you reach Wuji

You are LaoJi

Hahaha If you have reached wuji, then, you are dead.

Edited Wednesday at 05:13 PM by ChiDragon

[dwai]

4 hours ago, Antares said:

I know that smth similar to ZZ is in Temple Style neigong but it is called "Taiji Stance" there. And it is not static, but can be seen as static one if smb watches you. And it is done no longer than 10 minutes. (May be somebody does it for longer period of time, I dunno)

In Yiquan there is similar one as well and it is done as combo - you stand still lets say for 5 minutes and then you should do micro-movements in "taiji stance", and I dont think in the beginning they do it longer than 10-20 minutes on the chest level.

 

I’ve not come across any rule that prevents us from working on the MDT in temple style. The taiji stance is not the same as the prayer hands form that we use in temple style for MDT work. 

Also the same posture can be practiced in different ways depending on what the purpose is. 

 

For beginners (ie someone who has had 4-6 months of form practice) the static posture is used to learn how to sink qi to the LDT. Then it can be used to MDT and UDT.  

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Forestgreen said:

How do you differentiate a martial artist from martial arts practitioners?

A martial artist is an one person definition. The definition of martial arts practitioners is unanimous. 

Edited Wednesday at 06:09 PM by ChiDragon

[steve]

We have never been separate from wuji for an instant.

To conceptualize it as something distant or only occurring before birth or after death or at any point in time is misleading, imo.

It is independent of time and space and ever-present as the undifferentiated, unmanifest source of all. 

Taiji and wuji are not separate in time and space, that is a misunderstanding, imo.

 

 

[ChiDragon]

Wuji(無極) and Taiji(太極) are very broad and have lots of collective meanings. It depends on context. We cannot narrow them down to a single meaning. To be familiar with these two terms, it would be advantageous to study the Yijing(易經).

[Antares]

22 minutes ago, dwai said:

I’ve not come across any rule that prevents us from working on the MDT in temple style. The taiji stance is not the same as the prayer hands form that we use in temple style for MDT work. 

What I am saying is that in the beginning it is more dynamic work than static in taiji stance. For example when it is done after "raised hands" exercise. There are still opening and closing movements. In fact this is "working with ball " process there. But after that it is better to go down and close LDT

But I am not sure it can be done solely as static meditation in the very beginning. I have the video where Master Liao says we dont have to rush into work with MDT when work with "taiji ball". He says it in the "how to generetae taiji ball" video

[Antares]

33 minutes ago, dwai said:

For beginners (ie someone who has had 4-6 months of form practice) the static posture is used to learn how to sink qi to the LDT. Then it can be used to MDT and UDT.

I see now. AFTER 6 months taiji stance can be used as static posture, but not from the start

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Antares said:

taiji stance

Please show what it looks like.

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Master Logray said:

Wuji is only a name for this stance

Yes, you are right. It is very true.

[Antares]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

Please show what it looks like.

 

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Antares said:

 

The breathing part is good. However, please don't do this. This is the worse stance that could putting too much stress on the knees. This is not Taiji at all. 

Please do the correct Zhan Zhuang stance with the knees line up with the toes.

Edited Wednesday at 07:02 PM by ChiDragon

[Antares]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

The breathing part is good. However, please don't do this. This is the worse stance that could putting too much stress on the knees. This is not Taiji at all. 

This is preparation for taiji neigong (more like qigong). I do it in more narrow stance, no stress for me

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Antares said:

This is preparation for taiji neigong (more like qigong). I do it in more narrow stance, no stress for me

If you just do Taiji, it is neigong and qigong already. It is all in one. There is no need for any preparation.
It is still very awkward. Please do the correct Zhan Zhuang stance with the knees line up with the toes.  

[Antares]

3 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

It is still very awkward. 

What is awkward? I dont do it from this video, dont worry. Prep meds can be done anyway, they do their work, it is important part of taiji training.

[ChiDragon]

Just now, Antares said:

What is awkward? I dont do it from this video, dont worry. Prep meds can be done anyway, they do their work, it is important part of taiji training.

I know the Wing Chun practitioner do the stance like that but their feet are not as wide apart. It is called the "goat stance."

Here are some of the basic stances you might want to consider for practice.
https://www.risingmoontaichi.net/tai-chi-stances
 

[Antares]

what about this one? still awkward for you?

[Antares]

I do not do any meditations from Garry' channel and do not recommend it to anyone. Just saying it in case