Kunlun system (Max Christensen) VS Stillness-Movement (Michael Lomax) end result outcomes the same or different?

[dim]

As a new person to both of these systems... They appear pretty similar in overall instructions (relax and put awareness on LDT and just let go and let the body spontaneously do what it does). Although Kunlun has raised heels and arms / hands which help "turn on" the movements, whereas in S-M you cover the LDT with your hands.

 

But my question is... are the outcomes of both the systems similar / the same over time since they are focused on similar areas and spontaneous body movement? Or, do they open the body up in different ways?

 

I haven't done as much S-M as I have done Kunlun. But I notice with Kunlun, holding the hand positions seems to open up the energy between my palms, which also seems to parallel or spread the energy to the channel between my LDT and MDT. I'm not sure if this is intended or not. I also get  more spontaneous body movement doing Kunlun as the raised heels get it kickstarted. 

 

I guess before I get going too far in one system or another, I would like to know if the outcomes are similar between the 2 systems? Or, I'm completely missing the mark. That way I can choose a system now before getting too involved.

 

for me, I do have health problems (lower back, bladder / kidneys, immune system, digestion, gut health). So this is for healing, but also for developing Qi and spiritual / mental / energetic growth.

 

Thank you!

[SodaChanh]

SM is based on transmission, I don't think the book is enough. 

 

Since you think the systems are similar I can tell you are not doing SM but just ordinary LDT meditation. 

[forestofclarity]

I can give you some limited impressions from what I've seen through this site. 

 

When Kunlun was introduced here, the emphasis was on flashy experiences which attracted a lot of attention. There was even a movie trailer where the person was supposedly zapping women and making them scream. A lot of people initially found value in the practice, but there were a lot of weird things going on with the personalities involves and most if not all of the Bums moved on. Kunlun seems to have come from Sifu Jenny Lamb, who as far as I know gave up teaching and practices primarily Pure Land Buddhism and may have been taken without acknowledgment. The Kunlun System seems to be cobbled together rather than a tradition that has been passed down. 

 

S-M caught some people's attention. As far as I can tell, I think some Bums got heavily involved and it became their home practice. This practice seemed to be more centered and grounded, and the people practicing it seemed that way as well. Ya Mu stated AFAIK that he received his teaching in a lineaged way and I think he is or was a full time healer. There is a video on his site and his movements don't seem grounded nor his body connected, so I didn't really look any further because those are things I look for in a physical qigong type practice. 

 

There was some discussion on pros/cons some time back: 

 

 

Having said that, I have not practiced EITHER system and have no personal experience at all. Also, this all happened over a decade ago and people will likely have changed from that point. 

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

Kunlun seems to have come from Sifu Jenny Lamb, who as far as I know gave up teaching and practices primarily Pure Land Buddhism and may have been taken without acknowledgment. The Kunlun System seems to be cobbled together rather than a tradition that has been passed down. 

 

 

All true.  The basic Kunlun practice is essentially the same as Sufi Jenny Lamb´s yigong.  Max has added other practices to it to make his "system."  I´m not sure if it´s still possible to purchase Jenny Lamb´s Qigong for Self Healing dvd.  (Perhaps it´s available now for online download?)  This dvd covers the basic yigong practice as well as some preparatory qigong warmup exercises as well as practices to do after the spontaneous movement.  Recommended.  

 

Is Yamu still offering seminars?  If a person is able and willing to attend a seminar with Yamu, I´d count this as a major advantage of stillness movement.  Being able to plug into a living tradition and get instruction in person -- no small beans.  Alternatively, one could seek instruction from Max, but, as forestofclarity notes, Max´s personality isn´t for everyone.  I´d feel more comfortable with Yamu.  My partner was having some health problems and Yamu offered to do a distance healing on him for free.  We didn´t take him up on the offer, but I was impressed by his compassion.

[SodaChanh]

6 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

S-M caught some people's attention. As far as I can tell, I think some Bums got heavily involved and it became their home practice. This practice seemed to be more centered and grounded, and the people practicing it seemed that way as well. Ya Mu stated AFAIK that he received his teaching in a lineaged way and I think he is or was a full time healer. There is a video on his site and his movements don't seem grounded nor his body connected, so I didn't really look any further because those are things I look for in a physical qigong type practice. 

 

Gift of the Tao is reverse engineered SM so to speak. 

 

I don't do SM anymore as it caused severe energy imbalances. 

[dim]

On 10/16/2025 at 5:00 AM, SodaChanh said:

SM is based on transmission, I don't think the book is enough. 

 

Since you think the systems are similar I can tell you are not doing SM but just ordinary LDT meditation. 

 

If you don't mind, can you expand on the above on how SM and Kunlun differs in results over time? I also find the book lacking in detail and vague on practice.

 

I guess I'm still new to SM... I don't really get much spontaneous movement. So, in that regard, there isn't much "to let happen" (not yet anyway). How does ordinary LDT meditation differ from SM if there's not movement happening? Other thank spontaneous movement and the beginning / ending movements in SM, aren't they essentially the same basically? To sink yourself into LDT

 

On 10/16/2025 at 3:47 PM, SodaChanh said:

 

Gift of the Tao is reverse engineered SM so to speak. 

 

I don't do SM anymore as it caused severe energy imbalances. 

 

Hmm, I thought SM was pretty safe from my reading. Can you talk a little about what it caused to happen?

 

"Gift of the Tao is reverse engineered SM so to speak."

 

Are you saying that Gift of the Tao is kind of a way to open up to SM easier?

 

Thanks!

 

[dim]

On 10/16/2025 at 11:45 AM, liminal_luke said:

 

All true.  The basic Kunlun practice is essentially the same as Sufi Jenny Lamb´s yigong.  Max has added other practices to it to make his "system."  I´m not sure if it´s still possible to purchase Jenny Lamb´s Qigong for Self Healing dvd.  (Perhaps it´s available now for online download?)  This dvd covers the basic yigong practice as well as some preparatory qigong warmup exercises as well as practices to do after the spontaneous movement.  Recommended.  

 

Is Yamu still offering seminars?  If a person is able and willing to attend a seminar with Yamu, I´d count this as a major advantage of stillness movement.  Being able to plug into a living tradition and get instruction in person -- no small beans.  Alternatively, one could seek instruction from Max, but, as forestofclarity notes, Max´s personality isn´t for everyone.  I´d feel more comfortable with Yamu.  My partner was having some health problems and Yamu offered to do a distance healing on him for free.  We didn´t take him up on the offer, but I was impressed by his compassion.

 

I'm sure it would be beneficial to attend a seminar, but I have little money, and I'm not close to them. I was hoping to find GoT in DVD or video if anyone has it. It's too bad they are no longer available.

 

I'm interested in Jenny Lamb's DVD also... But it seems not available anymore either, not that I can find anyway

 

Thank you!

[dim]

On 10/16/2025 at 9:15 AM, forestofclarity said:

I can give you some limited impressions from what I've seen through this site. 

 

When Kunlun was introduced here, the emphasis was on flashy experiences which attracted a lot of attention. There was even a movie trailer where the person was supposedly zapping women and making them scream. A lot of people initially found value in the practice, but there were a lot of weird things going on with the personalities involves and most if not all of the Bums moved on. Kunlun seems to have come from Sifu Jenny Lamb, who as far as I know gave up teaching and practices primarily Pure Land Buddhism and may have been taken without acknowledgment. The Kunlun System seems to be cobbled together rather than a tradition that has been passed down. 

 

S-M caught some people's attention. As far as I can tell, I think some Bums got heavily involved and it became their home practice. This practice seemed to be more centered and grounded, and the people practicing it seemed that way as well. Ya Mu stated AFAIK that he received his teaching in a lineaged way and I think he is or was a full time healer. There is a video on his site and his movements don't seem grounded nor his body connected, so I didn't really look any further because those are things I look for in a physical qigong type practice. 

 

There was some discussion on pros/cons some time back: 

 

 

Having said that, I have not practiced EITHER system and have no personal experience at all. Also, this all happened over a decade ago and people will likely have changed from that point. 

 

Thanks for your insight and link! I'm going to check out this thread. I'm new to the practice. @SodaChanh said he got energy imbalances from doing S-M, though he didn't specify what / how exactly.

[SodaChanh]

5 hours ago, dim said:

 

If you don't mind, can you expand on the above on how SM and Kunlun differs in results over time? I also find the book lacking in detail and vague on practice.

 

I guess I'm still new to SM... I don't really get much spontaneous movement. So, in that regard, there isn't much "to let happen" (not yet anyway). How does ordinary LDT meditation differ from SM if there's not movement happening? Other thank spontaneous movement and the beginning / ending movements in SM, aren't they essentially the same basically? To sink yourself into LDT

 

 

Hmm, I thought SM was pretty safe from my reading. Can you talk a little about what it caused to happen?

 

"Gift of the Tao is reverse engineered SM so to speak."

 

Are you saying that Gift of the Tao is kind of a way to open up to SM easier?

 

Thanks!

 

 

SM is not about spontaneous movements although it may happen when you practice. 

 

As for SM without transmission it is like imagining eating an orange vs actually eating a real orange. 

 

I got my crown open prematurely on a SM seminar, something that continues to plague me although Flying Phoenix Qigong has helped with that over the last 14 years. 

[liminal_luke]

8 hours ago, dim said:

 

I'm sure it would be beneficial to attend a seminar, but I have little money, and I'm not close to them. I was hoping to find GoT in DVD or video if anyone has it. It's too bad they are no longer available.

 

I'm interested in Jenny Lamb's DVD also... But it seems not available anymore either, not that I can find anyway

 

Thank you!

 

Jenny Lamb´s DVD appears to be available as an online download here, Eastern Internal Arts Institute

[laughingblade]

I attended a seminar with YaMu about 15 years ago. S-M is mostly about the transmission, and it's strong: while I don't practice it these days the internal LDT spiralling he initiated still occurs regularly when I sit.

The Gift of the Tao movements look like the messiest form you've ever seen, but they are potent particularly when performed in nature. Energetically different, more shamanic if I were to grab a word for it than Tai Chi.

 

I note @SodaChanh's experience and can well believe that S-M has the ability to jump a few levels of balanced development. 

I haven't practiced any Max or Jenny Lamb stuff.
Everyone charges a lot these days. I imagine the pov that says he wants serious practitioners, but also recognise everyone needs to make a living and it's tough at the moment.

Edited Monday at 04:25 PM by laughingblade

[SodaChanh]

3 hours ago, laughingblade said:

I note @SodaChanh's experience and can well believe that S-M has the ability to jump a few levels of balanced development. 

 

The correct term is 'creating energetic imbalances'.

[laughingblade]

On 12/1/2025 at 7:55 PM, SodaChanh said:

 

The correct term is 'creating energetic imbalances'.

'correct' in what context? 

[SodaChanh]

57 minutes ago, laughingblade said:

'correct' in what context? 

 

Correct as in my experience. 

 

It can jump levels but just saying that does not portray what is going on in its entirety.

SM created major energetic imbalances as I mentioned many times on this site. 

[laughingblade]

41 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

 

Correct as in my experience. 

 

It can jump levels but just saying that does not portray what is going on in its entirety.

SM created major energetic imbalances as I mentioned many times on this site. 

OK

Edited 9 hours ago by laughingblade
'cos CBA

[stirling]

Jenny Lamb if this is the right person appears to have abandoned her previous practice(s) and has taken refuge in Zen teacher Thich Nhat Hanh's "Plum Village Tradition". She is not a ordained teacher in the Plum Village lineage as far as I can tell. I would look at what her current practice aspiration is and see if it aligns with yours before following her as a student. 

 

Quote

On Saturday, November 12, 2022, at 3 p.m. U.S. Central Standard Time, I received The Three Refuges and The Five Mindfulness Trainings in the Plum Village Tradition of Engaged Buddhism founded by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh via an online ceremony as a member of Joyful Mountain Sangha.

 

     The ceremony was conducted beautifully by The Heart Sangha of Santa Cruz, CA, led by Dharma teachers Jim and Natasha, and supported by many additional members of the Order of Interbeing.

 

     I received the Dharma name “Beautiful Continuation of the Source,” which reminds me of my aspiration statement and the third training. It was a joy to receive the trainings with dear sangha siblings, Donald and Felicity. I’m sincerely grateful to all the sangha siblings and friends, like Lorelei and Kim, who attended to support us.

 

     The entire ceremony moved me, but especially this part of the Second Mindfulness Training on True Happiness: “…I will share my time, energy, and material resources with those who are in need. I will practice looking deeply to see that the happiness and suffering of others are not separate from my own happiness and suffering; that true happiness is not possible without understanding and compassion; and that running after wealth, fame, power, and sensual pleasures can bring much suffering and despair. I am aware that happiness depends on my mental attitude and not on external conditions and that I can live happily in the present moment simply by remembering that I already have more than enough conditions to be happy.”

 

     It made me think of my mother, father, and sister and brought me to happy and grateful tears, knowing that I continue them. And, I’m joyful because I know I am and will be continued beautifully by my stepchildren and grandchildren, among many others.

     My aspiration statement: “My deep aspiration for my practice is to realize I am enough. I wish to live without striving to be the best or perfect. From now on, I want to offer to my family, my friends and co-workers, and my sangha, my true self, by taking care of the present moment. I want to live my life well, heal old wounds, and leave a beautiful continuation.”

 

https://buddhism.jenniellamb.com/about/

[Leif]

5 hours ago, stirling said:

Jenny Lamb if this is the right person appears to have abandoned her previous practice(s) and has taken refuge in Zen teacher Thich Nhat Hanh's "Plum Village Tradition". She is not a ordained teacher in the Plum Village lineage as far as I can tell. I would look at what her current practice aspiration is and see if it aligns with yours before following her as a student. 

 

 

https://buddhism.jenniellamb.com/about/

 

Just similar name, not same person, it is not Sifu Lamb.