ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 11:12 PM On 9/13/2025 at 12:01 AM, Antares said: Yes, this is the most difficult part of the entire alchemical process - one must hold the virtuous lifestyle preventing the leakages. And of course, I think this diagram illustrates that the body energy is leaking out the body. Don't you think it is a fallacy. What it is saying that all human beings, eventually, are having the possibility leaking all the body energy and die? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Sunday at 11:24 PM are you asking if all human beings will die ? Errrmmmmm ...... what can I say ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 11:33 PM (edited) 10 minutes ago, Nungali said: are you asking if all human beings will die ? Errrmmmmm ...... what can I say ? I didn't say that. What I am saying that is what the diagram was suggesting. My interpretation was the energy in the human body is constantly leaking out. Eventually, all will leaked out, then, the body has no energy left to sustain itself . Edited Sunday at 11:39 PM by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Sunday at 11:53 PM 15 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: I didn't say that. What I am saying that is what the diagram was suggesting. My interpretation was the energy in the human body is constantly leaking out. Eventually, all will leaked out, then, the body has no energy left to sustain itself . I understood that ..... and then ? if your interpretation is correct , does it not lead to what I suggested ? and my comment is about ones observations ... have you not observed that all people actually do die ? And my own take on 'leakage ' is very different , it should all be about flow , so the 'container' should be constantly 'outflowing ' but also inflowing . There is no problem with outflow it is actually required . However if 'leakage ' means damage to the container s it can never be filled or replenished ... then you have big health / vitality issues , which, yes, can result in death . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Sunday at 11:54 PM I am still waiting for a simple and direct definition of eastern alchemy . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted yesterday at 03:13 AM 3 hours ago, Nungali said: I am still waiting for a simple and direct definition of eastern alchemy . I thought the concept about the three treasures of Jing, chi, and shen was very clearly described as the eastern alchemy. I am so surprised that the concept had been floating around for centuries. Are you telling me that no one realize that is the original idea of eastern alchemy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted yesterday at 05:34 AM You seemed to be describing a process of breathing and internal visualizations that causes better health and longevity. If that is the description of eastern alchemy ... okay then . But a lot of traditions do that and do not consider it any type of alchemy . Western alchemy it can most simply be described as taking the refined 'spiritual substance ' out of matter , using that to make a pure 'spiritual ' substance that passes on its qualities to 'ordinary matter ' and changing that to an improved 'spiritual substance ' In a way, its similar to magnetism ; Take a metallic substance ( ' the 'First Matter ' or Operation ) and purify it . Magnetize it ( to make a 'touchstone' or 'Philosophers Stone ' ( the alchemical operation , ie. it is transference basically ) and then that can be used to make more metal magnetic - by stoking one with the other ( passing on the 'magical ' properties ) . An even closer example is how Bio-dynamic agriculture is claimed to work . But I suppose if we consider air and its better qualities contains spiritual energy and the body is extracting that and using in a way that it normally does not ... then it would be closer to the western tradition . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted yesterday at 05:36 AM 2 hours ago, ChiDragon said: .... Are you telling me that no one realize that is the original idea of eastern alchemy? I was observing that not many offered any explanation about what they thought it was but were prepared to comment on it anyway . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sanity Check Posted yesterday at 05:47 AM 5 hours ago, Nungali said: I am still waiting for a simple and direct definition of eastern alchemy . "The tao that can be spoken of." "Is not the true tao." 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted yesterday at 06:22 AM (edited) 15 hours ago, Nungali said: And my own take on 'leakage ' is very different , it should all be about flow , so the 'container' should be constantly 'outflowing ' but also inflowing . Yes, that is how the body works. However, the diagram shown was only figure 1. It didn't really tell the whole story. Edited 20 hours ago by ChiDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted yesterday at 06:23 AM 34 minutes ago, Sanity Check said: "The tao that can be spoken of." "Is not the true tao." That is a definition of the Tao ... not alchemy . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted yesterday at 06:23 AM 47 minutes ago, Nungali said: I was observing that not many offered any explanation about what they thought it was but were prepared to comment on it anyway . See Chi Dragon they ^ are still doing it . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antares Posted yesterday at 06:27 AM 12 hours ago, ChiDragon said: I don't think the above you have mentioned was referring to the LDT. The "above" is referring to the Building Foundation stage at which LDT is built. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- Posted yesterday at 07:46 AM (edited) 7 hours ago, Nungali said: I am still waiting for a simple and direct definition of eastern alchemy . Actively converting jing to qi to shen Oh I failed, you said eastern alchemy, not eastern internal alchemy Edited yesterday at 07:48 AM by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antares Posted yesterday at 08:47 AM 9 hours ago, ChiDragon said: I think this diagram illustrates that the body energy is leaking out the body. Don't you think it is a fallacy. What it is saying that all human beings, eventually, are having the possibility leaking all the body energy and die? Yes, it illustrates the path of leakage. But as Buddha said Quote The Four Noble Truths are accepted by all schools of Buddhism and have been the subject of extensive commentary. They may be summarized as follows. The first truth, suffering (Pali: dukkha; Sanskrit: duhkha), is characteristic of existence in the realm of rebirth, called samsara (literally “wandering”). In his final sermon, the Buddha identified as forms of suffering birth, aging, sickness, death, encountering the unpleasant, separation from the pleasant, not gaining what one desires, and the five “aggregates” (skandhas) that constitute the mind and body (matter, sensations, perceptions, mental formations, and awareness). Hm, I have never thought this way but now the idea came to mind that Quote The third truth is the cessation of suffering (Pali and Sanskrit: nirodha), commonly called nibbana (Sanskrit: nirvana). in fact is to stop the leakage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 14 hours ago 13 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said: Actively converting jing to qi to shen Oh I failed, you said eastern alchemy, not eastern internal alchemy Oh , I failed too ... I should have said (according to OP ) medical alchemy . But I do like your straightforward 7 word answer . ' One that does not need to 'beat around the bush' , already knows where the bird is ' 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- Posted 13 hours ago (edited) 18 minutes ago, Nungali said: Oh , I failed too ... I should have said (according to OP ) medical alchemy . But I do like your straightforward 7 word answer . ' One that does not need to 'beat around the bush' , already knows where the bird is ' Yea I should have gone back and read the original post first. @Stream I don’t have a concise explanation for eastern medical alchemy but I can say there do exist pills and other concoctions (called “dan” in Chinese) that can increase your qi production significantly, other have healing effects etc This is known as kanli dan. It is for producing jing, sperm, and blood, harmonizing yin and yang, balancing water and fire, and is good for all kinds of deficiencies and internal injury. Edited 13 hours ago by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 13 hours ago Here is a curious thing about attempts to find elixir / pill for health / immortality ... and it ends up making you sick or killing you ; things like selenium ... if it isnt in your soil, plants, food and yourself ..... in the right minute quantity , you will get sick ; Dosage is crucial as well when considering these things A lack of dietary selenium can increase the risk of serious health issues such as Keshan disease (a heart condition), Kashin-Beck disease (a cartilage and joint disease), thyroid problems, infertility, and immune system dysfunction. It may also impair cognitive function, exacerbate the negative effects of iodine deficiency on thyroid health, and contribute to fatigue but too much ; Too much selenium, also known as selenium toxicity, can cause symptoms such as garlic breath, a metallic taste in the mouth, hair loss, brittle nails, skin rash, nausea, diarrhea, and extreme tiredness. High doses can lead to severe nervous system and heart problems, difficulty breathing, tremors, muscle tenderness, kidney or heart failure, and, in rare cases, death. The upper limit for adults is 400 mcg of selenium per day from all sources, including food and supplements 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 13 hours ago Here is a curious thing about attempts to find elixir / pill for health / immortality ... and it ends up making you sick or killing you ; things like selenium ... if it isnt in your soil, plants, food and yourself ..... in the right minute quantity , you will get sick ; Dosage is crucial as well when considering these things A lack of dietary selenium can increase the risk of serious health issues such as Keshan disease (a heart condition), Kashin-Beck disease (a cartilage and joint disease), thyroid problems, infertility, and immune system dysfunction. It may also impair cognitive function, exacerbate the negative effects of iodine deficiency on thyroid health, and contribute to fatigue but too much ; Too much selenium, also known as selenium toxicity, can cause symptoms such as garlic breath, a metallic taste in the mouth, hair loss, brittle nails, skin rash, nausea, diarrhea, and extreme tiredness. High doses can lead to severe nervous system and heart problems, difficulty breathing, tremors, muscle tenderness, kidney or heart failure, and, in rare cases, death. The upper limit for adults is 400 mcg of selenium per day from all sources, including food and supplements Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted 11 hours ago 1 hour ago, Nungali said: Here is a curious thing about attempts to find elixir / pill for health / immortality ... and it ends up making you sick or killing you ; So, alchemy is not real! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 5 hours ago What type of alchemy is not real ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 5 hours ago OR it might be if you get the dosage right 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites