old3bob Posted 21 hours ago evil in multiple forms is attacking the earth and its decent people in every way possible... "Resist not evil" only works so far, so then where is your cutoff point? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lairg Posted 20 hours ago (edited) Humans have cultural views of good and evil. In terms of the Tzimtzum it may be harder to categorize situations. For example, dealing with adversity may be the quickest way of activating human potential. And the evil-doer may also be a victim since few humans can control their thoughts. Long ago I was interested in accounts of nasty murders and those I read mostly contained statements like: the voice in my head made me do it. These days there is quite a lot of technology for that. I recall that the murderer of John Lennon stood around reading a book until the police arrived. Sirhan Sirhan claimed not to remember what he did. Edited 20 hours ago by Lairg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 20 hours ago (edited) 20 minutes ago, Lairg said: Humans have cultural views of good and evil. In terms of the Tzimtzum it may be harder to categorize situations. For example, dealing with adversity may be the quickest way of activating human potential. And the evil-doer may also be a victim since few humans can control their thoughts. Long ago I was interested in accounts of nasty murders and those I read mostly contained statements like: the voice in my head made me do it. These days there is quite a lot of technology for that. I recall that the murderer of John Lennon stood around reading a book until the police arrived. Sirhan Sirhan claimed not to remember what he did. philosophy on a matter can be interesting but is not exactly a personal cut off point... (so to speak) Edited 20 hours ago by old3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted 16 hours ago 4 hours ago, old3bob said: evil in multiple forms is attacking the earth and its decent people in every way possible... "Resist not evil" only works so far, so then where is your cutoff point? What do you mean by cutoff point? What is different before vs after that point? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 13 hours ago (edited) 3 hours ago, steve said: What do you mean by cutoff point? What is different before vs after that point? Well that saying is along the lines of not getting caught up in or being reactive too evil which I'd say works to a point, but the point can also come when being a pacifist, "turning the other cheek", ignoring, or acting above it all during developing and dire situations no longer works. (or is applicable) Edited 13 hours ago by old3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lairg Posted 11 hours ago What humans call evil has mechanisms/processes - for example a possessing entity. Rather than engage on the level of the problem, it may be better to lift the consciousness above the problem and intervene at a deeper level. The other day a friend was again having trouble with her very demanding younger daughter. When she looked at the girl's heart it was hard - from trauma in previous lives. So now the mother makes a point of giving heart light to the girl and the girl's behavior is improving. Since then her brother has been reading stories to the girl, and she is forming better relationships Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted 11 hours ago 2 hours ago, old3bob said: Well that saying is along the lines of not getting caught up in or being reactive too evil which I'd say works to a point, but the point can also come when being a pacifist, "turning the other cheek", ignoring, or acting above it all during developing and dire situations no longer works. (or is applicable) I get that. I'm asking what do you differently when you reach that point or are pushed beyond? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted 10 hours ago There is no cutoff point. It´s not like we´re all chummy spiritual friends hanging at the Zen center, accepting life as it comes and working with our aversions, until BOOM -- some threshhold of evil is crossed and we say "forget all that non-attachment stuff, time to fight like hell." The whole idea of a cutoff point is based on a faulty premise: that spiritual maturity is at odds with action in the world. Quite the opposite. Spiritual maturity and effective action (including political action -- the unspoken subtext here) are entirely aligned. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 7 hours ago 2 hours ago, liminal_luke said: There is no cutoff point. It´s not like we´re all chummy spiritual friends hanging at the Zen center, accepting life as it comes and working with our aversions, until BOOM -- some threshhold of evil is crossed and we say "forget all that non-attachment stuff, time to fight like hell." The whole idea of a cutoff point is based on a faulty premise: that spiritual maturity is at odds with action in the world. Quite the opposite. Spiritual maturity and effective action (including political action -- the unspoken subtext here) are entirely aligned. hmm, not so in the sense of magnitudes, I'd say "resist not evil" is coping via spiritual phycological methods whereas in more violent situations different means are rightly called for. That is unless one is a 100% pacifist no matter what and is prepared to suffer whatever is dished out. (?) Examples: a verbal confrontation that starts and ends that way compared to a life or death fight that also starts and ends that way. (there are also progressions, namely escalations or de-escalations that start and end in one way or another) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stirling Posted 6 hours ago 4 hours ago, liminal_luke said: There is no cutoff point. It´s not like we´re all chummy spiritual friends hanging at the Zen center, accepting life as it comes and working with our aversions, until BOOM -- some threshhold of evil is crossed and we say "forget all that non-attachment stuff, time to fight like hell." The whole idea of a cutoff point is based on a faulty premise: that spiritual maturity is at odds with action in the world. Quite the opposite. Spiritual maturity and effective action (including political action -- the unspoken subtext here) are entirely aligned. This - all day, every day, every moment, endlessly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 6 hours ago (edited) so some seem to see no difference (or a cut off or on point so to speak) between just verbal/non-verbal interaction and interaction at much stronger levels of energy that can have far more serious results. I'd say that idea is bogus as it can be ! Edited 3 hours ago by old3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted 5 hours ago "I believe I am in Hell, therefore I am." 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, zerostao said: "I believe I am in Hell, therefore I am." not to worry I think I heard hell is also empty.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 7 hours ago, steve said: I get that. I'm asking what do you differently when you reach that point or are pushed beyond? on the human level its not so easy to say...as for a Buddhist or Bon Dharma (wrathful) guardian deity or temple guardians I think you have a good idea... Edited 3 hours ago by old3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 37 minutes ago Well, the wise know that when action is taken after you have been pushed beyond the point ... you never tell anyone . And dont tell anyone before you do it either ! 'Us discordians must stick apart ! ' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
