Asking for something in a prayer

[manitou]

4 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

There are many religious traditions and many "preachers and gurus" who teach that God is both transcendent ("out there") and also immanent ("in here").  That there is a spark of Divinity within each and every one of us.  And that Divinity permeates all of creation.  "There is no place where God is not."

 

 

 

That's why it is universal.  Just as you say, because there are so many religious traditions out there.  Don't you find it strange that regardless of where we're born, or what religion that we're born into, there is always that  niggling question as to what makes this all tick?  When you say there's a spark of Divinity in everyone, I couldn't agree more.  This is our universal consciousness, our one shared soul.  And, as you say, "there is no place where God is not".  That seems to infer that it is all One, which would mean that God is contained within us....is us.  I think if a person looks to the ethers for something coordinating all this that is not us, that one hasn't taken the time to think about the ramifications of "there is no place where God is not".  I do see the purpose of our brain is to figure this out on our own.  This is what self-realization is.  Religions can only take you so far, as the master pointing to the moon indicates.  He can only point the way, and there is a fairly large gap between his fingertip and the moon.

[BigSkyDiamond]

2 hours ago, manitou said:

 That seems to infer that it is all One, which would mean that God is contained within us....is us.  I think if a person looks to the ethers for something coordinating all this that is not us, that one hasn't taken the time to think about the ramifications of "there is no place where God is not".  I do see the purpose of our brain is to figure this out on our own.  This is what self-realization is. 

 

in my view, it is more than "just all of us" though.

The whole (God) is greater than the sum of its parts (all the people).

 

i don't think we do figure it out on our own. I think we tap into God which is more vast than just a bunch of people put all together.  God is not limited.  We as humans are limited.  That is the difference. We can tap into the greater wisdom that is God.  All the human brains working together do not have that wisdom.    So yes God is within us.  But i would not say God is us because God is more than us.  sort of like a sunbeam is not the sun.  it is an emanation of the sun, but the sun is far greater and far more vast in scope and intensity than a sunbeam is.

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, manitou said:

Does anybody ever wonder is the whole god idea is something that's been handed down generation after generation, and it's all just one big fantasy?  That it was originally set up, as someone said before, to control?  How wonderfully controlling it is to engender fear in people in order for them to stay on the straight and narrow?  That we are intended to grow up with the same attitudes and beliefs as our parents?

 

 

She's back alright !

 

But beware my dear !  Especially if you try to  deconstruct the complex to educate , and especially if you use intelligence, reason, logic, history, archaeology and even their own scripture itself .... it will invoke all sorts of things  that will try to come down on your head .

 

I mentioned recently , some of these people that are so sure in their  definitions and 'allowances' and 'non-allowances'  all I can see is either a VERY limited view and a LOT of hubris . 

 

 

 

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 It seems that the god concept is a very comforting one, and I understand people wanting to believe that there's something out there (apart from us) that watches and cares what we do.  Something to turn to in times of sorrow.  But I propose something else; that God is none other than the wizard in the Wizard of Oz.  When Dorothy and friends went behind the big scary wizard, they were confronted with nothing more than a plain human being!  I think this story about the Wizard is a crucial acceptance of that which we don't want to believe:  that there's nothing out there going to save our asses.  There's nothing to pray 'to'.

 

But this is not to say there's no god at all! 

 

What ! ?  You are NOT an atheist  ?    

 

 

 

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I've come to the realization that the intelligence of god is  our very DNA!  That is god, to me. 

 

Did you see the 'invocation' I put up earlier ? Especially this bit ; 

 

"  We call upon the spirit of evolution, the miraculous force that inspires rocks and dust to weave themselves into biology. You have stood by us for millions and billions of years — do not forsake us now. Empower us and awaken in us pure and dazzling creativity. You that can turn scales into feathers, seawater to blood, caterpillars to butterflies, metamorphose our species, awaken in us the powers that we need to survive the present crisis and evolve into more aeons of our solar journey. "

 

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The incredible intelligence involved in a fetus growing into a child.  When I found out that there is no difference between cells when they're first produced, that the only thing that differentiates a hair cell from a skin cell or a bone cell or a heart cell, is how they line up next to each other!  Such intelligence!  And how does the fetus know how far out finger cells should go before they turn around and come back down the other side?

 

I think there's a sort of DNA in everything, including minerals.  It's the intelligence of the universe, as I see it.  and when we do pray, we are praying to nothing more than our higher selves, and our higher selves, communally, are God.  I say communally because I think that we all share the same higher self.  The things that differentiate us are our separate conditionings.

 

A concept in hermetics as well  and it goes right back and underpins the concept of 'totems' (well, the way they are conceived here ). You would not be 'this or that' kookaburra , but 'the' kookaburra '  - the original pattern / form  - the 'archetype '  -   with humans ;  'Adom Kadmon' .

 

 

'The Universal Man' .

 

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But it occurred to me one day that the reason I see the soul-sharing among all of us, is because when you see something sad, you get tears in your eye.  And so do I!  This is a crossover from a physical observation to an internal expression of sadness, and we all share the same configuration.

 

This communal god I speak of is found by self-knowledge, not be anything that any preacher or guru can tell you.  If you can peel off the layers of your conditioning, you will get down to that which is true.  Your true identity, and we all share it.  We are God.

 

 

Good luck  !  

 

[ And our Master declared , " There is nothing in my turban that is not God "  , so the people, in uproar seized him and bound him to a stake in the square and hurled insults upon him and spat upon him and  struck him  and hurled stones at  him . Then he was taken before the court , but found not guilty. Having none of that , certain religious leaders hired three ruffians to assault him , they stoned him again, cut his throat and then dumped his body in an old disused well .' 

 

Edited 14 hours ago by Nungali

[Cobie]

 

6 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

... a sunbeam is not the sun.  ...

 

Saint Gregory Palamas. Hesychasm.  

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Cobie

[BigSkyDiamond]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

[ And our Master declared , " There is nothing in my turban that is not God "  , so the people, in uproar seized him and bound him 

 

The above quote is from Sufi mystic Mansur al-Hallaj, born in Shiraz, Persia year 858 CE.  Sufi is the mystical element of Islam.

 

"We own a lot of what is known about al-Hallaj to a French Catholic scholar of Islam, Louis Massignon (1883-1962). Massignon became so passionate about the mystic’s life that he made him the subject of his doctoral dissertation, travelled to Irak in pursuit of of his life and work, and finally produced a four-volume study: ‘The Passion of al-Hallaj’, which became one of the major works on Islamic mysticism. On his fifty-year journey of research and writing, Massignon met al-Hallaj in such a profound way that it led him to embrace the Roman Catholic Church. A conversion experience which he describes here so beautifully: “There is no question here of claiming that the study of this life full and hard, and rising, and given, has delivered to me the secret of his heart. Rather, it is he who has searched mine, and is searching it again.”

 

source

https://thedawnwithin.com/the-carder-of-innermost-souls/#:~:text=His absolute fervour and his,self shared by all beings.

Edited 20 minutes ago by BigSkyDiamond

[old3bob]

 

I'd say what differentiates us is our individual and unique souls, but when soul merges with God then that unique soul (of woven light) no longer exists, for then there is only "God"... same as when a unique drop water merges into the ocean then there is only the ocean...anybody ready to give up being a super duper and still individual soul identity?

 

Edited 14 minutes ago by old3bob