Immortality through Philosophy

[Jenn]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

And do you know why its termed the Philosopher's Stone   ?

couldn't get anyone else to believe it was real?

[NaturaNaturans]

On 13.1.2024 at 10:01 PM, Nungali said:

 

yes, it can seem that way  and sometimes I feel like that . But if there isnt  an afterlife and this one life is all we get , that just makes it more precious, important and  wonderful ... dont waste you time guys !  It might be the only one you got .

 

And considering and meditating on that , one might even eventually be able to add  'ecstatic' to one's list of 'appreciations' .

I find it hard to articulate, but i feel convinced that there must be one. I think it is down to two things:

 

1. fundementally everything is made of the same matter, it only changes form.

 

2.  Conciousness, the largest mystery there is in my opinion. Can you imaging not excisting? We know that the mind can «create» seemingly real experiences, but we do not know that matter can create coinciousness. 
 

The word «mattee» is interresting as well. It has its roots from latin mater, meaning mother.

The Domain, Not of Matter, but of What Matters

Jordan Peterson

 

And if the elements themselves suffer nothing by their perpetual conversion of one into another, that dissolution, and alteration, which is so common unto all, why should it be feared by any? Is not this according to nature? But nothing that is according to nature can be evil.
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

I do not belive that I, as in the container of flesh and blood people call Mathias, will live on. I definetly hope it doesnt. But i belive councioussnsess is eternal. 
 

_________________________________
 

When you say the philosophers stone, i doubt you are talking about a rock, but rather alchemy. But what do you mean by that?

 

[Cadcam]

The study of Alchemy is to transmute chemicals, elements and minerals from one thing to another, such as lead into gold. This is also a metaphor for spiritual alchemy, where we take the elemental nature's of life and personality and turn them into something else, Ala occult symbols angels demons and gods.  

 

Philosophy being on the nature of things, primarily on the subject of life and existence, but also on matter, is a science of Wisdom, and it is said that to traverse the path of Wisdom promises the elixir or food of immortality. The philosophers stone is the metal, or idea, which is found at the conclusion of this journey, which can be used to explain all of nature- at least psychologically, but perhaps in the elemental realms as well, such as finding that primary stuff from which life emerges. As the latter element seems impossible to find, I suggest that the philosophers stone is more of a psychological idea from whence all things can be explained.

[Apotheose]

8 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

I find it hard to articulate, but i feel convinced that there must be one. I think it is down to two things:

 

1. fundementally everything is made of the same matter, it only changes form.

 

2.  Conciousness, the largest mystery there is in my opinion. Can you imaging not excisting? We know that the mind can «create» seemingly real experiences, but we do not know that matter can create coinciousness. 
 

The word «mattee» is interresting as well. It has its roots from latin mater, meaning mother.

The Domain, Not of Matter, but of What Matters

Jordan Peterson

 

And if the elements themselves suffer nothing by their perpetual conversion of one into another, that dissolution, and alteration, which is so common unto all, why should it be feared by any? Is not this according to nature? But nothing that is according to nature can be evil.
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

I do not belive that I, as in the container of flesh and blood people call Mathias, will live on. I definetly hope it doesnt. But i belive councioussnsess is eternal. 
 

_________________________________
 

When you say the philosophers stone, i doubt you are talking about a rock, but rather alchemy. But what do you mean by that?

 

Wow, what a profound insight… thank you for that, really.

[Nungali]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:42 AM, Jenn said:

couldn't get anyone else to believe it was real?

 

Did you mean ; ' only philosopher's would have believed  it was real ' ?

 

'Philosopher's ' can have a broad meaning though ;

 

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

I find it hard to articulate, but i feel convinced that there must be one. I think it is down to two things:

 

1. fundementally everything is made of the same matter, it only changes form.

 

2.  Conciousness, the largest mystery there is in my opinion. Can you imaging not excisting? We know that the mind can «create» seemingly real experiences, but we do not know that matter can create coinciousness. 
 

The word «mattee» is interresting as well. It has its roots from latin mater, meaning mother.

The Domain, Not of Matter, but of What Matters

Jordan Peterson

 

And if the elements themselves suffer nothing by their perpetual conversion of one into another, that dissolution, and alteration, which is so common unto all, why should it be feared by any? Is not this according to nature? But nothing that is according to nature can be evil.
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

I do not belive that I, as in the container of flesh and blood people call Mathias, will live on. I definetly hope it doesnt. But i belive councioussnsess is eternal. 

 

 

Fair enough, but answer me this .... what type of 'matter '   ( ref. your point 1 ) is 'consciousness'  ( your point 2 )  made from and what type of matter will it change into ?
 

_________________________________
 

When you say the philosophers stone, i doubt you are talking about a rock, but rather alchemy. But what do you mean by that?

 

I already explained all of that already in my longer post about it .

 

[Nungali]

Thanks for YOUR explanation . That's a valid understanding as well .

 

But if one where to get persnickety   ;   

 

15 hours ago, Cadcam said:

The study of Alchemy is to transmute chemicals, elements and minerals from one thing to another, such as lead into gold. This is also a metaphor for spiritual alchemy, where we take the elemental nature's of life and personality and turn them into something else, Ala occult symbols angels demons and gods.  

 

Thats seems an 'original' interpretation ?  But then again I am not sure of the meaning of ; " elemental nature's of life and personality ( a typo in there ? ) . It seems an unusual premise though .  Is it taking the TRANSFORMATION of something into a symbol , that is considered alchemy ?

 

Philosophy being on the nature of things, primarily on the subject of life and existence, but also on matter, is a science of Wisdom, and it is said that to traverse the path of Wisdom promises the elixir or food of immortality. The philosophers stone is the metal, or idea,*  which is found at the conclusion of this journey, which can be used to explain all of nature- at least psychologically, but perhaps in the elemental realms as well, such as finding that primary stuff from which life emerges. As the latter element seems impossible to find, I suggest that the philosophers stone is more of a psychological idea from whence all things can be explained.

 

So, you seem to prefer the 'psychological ' interpretation of alchemy ?

 

* it can be an 'idea'  ?   that is an unusual interpretation !   ... and you thought using the idea in agriculture is invalid ? 

 

[Cadcam]

 

You're just proving my point Nungali. You're not initiated into these mysteries. They say you should be of a certain age, maybe you just aren't old enough.

Edited January 20 by Cadcam

[Cobie]

 

12 hours ago, Nungali said:

… But if one where to get persnickety …

 

 … then the plural of philosopher is philosophers, and it’s philosophers’ stone. 

 

Edited January 20 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 @Nungali in my estimation has about 60 years experience. See picture, imo he’s firmly at the “Plateau”.

The Cad in my estimation spent max 3 years reading online disinformation and imo is firmly on the first “Peak”. 

 

Edited January 20 by Cobie

[Eduardo]

Being very sincere, I can point out that in many Masonic, Rosicrucian and Martinist orders they seek today to achieve the philosopher's stone through operative alchemy.

 

Arthur Edward Waite already described in his work on the Brotherhood of the Rose+Cross regarding the German order of the Red Rose and the Golden Cross regarding the alchemical teachings of each degree.

 

Very possibly the search for the true philosopher's stone is reserved for those who deserve this immense reward, despite the prejudices and ignorance of the current era, perhaps it is the first difficulty or dragon that the sincere seeker faces.

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Cadcam said:

 

You're just proving my point Nungali. You're not initiated into these mysteries. They say you should be of a certain age, maybe you just aren't old enough.

 

And you are proving my point too .

 

That some people are less liberal with accepting others variations on a theme  while they are doing exactly that themselves .

 

In my tradition the age is  the legal (locally )  age of being able to make  an independent  adult legal decision .   I passed that point a looooooong time ago .

 

So try another point of attack, I am sure you can find a better one  that is more accurate  than 'lack of experience'   .   

 

I also note you  avoid answering relevant questions ... that's telling .

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

 … then the plural of philosopher is philosophers, and it’s philosophers’ stone. 

 

 

Ah but if one where to get  suprapersnickety  .... it is only one philosopher that  made it .   The others  have not , they just claim to and describe vaguely  'psychology '  and 'making symbols' .  No   experiments, no  demonstrable successful results ... etc .

 

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

 @Nungali in my estimation has about 60 years experience. See picture, imo he’s firmly at the “Plateau”.

The Cad in my estimation spent max 3 years reading online disinformation and imo is firmly on the first “Peak”. 

 

 

That isnt just a map of Dunning Kruger ya know .

 

It could also be a map of the 'progress' of a Chinese translator .   

 

Anyway to clear up any misunderstandings you might have about my psychological syndomes , no it isnt Dunning Kruger , its more the opposite ..... so I thought , but no, as the opposite of that seems to be ' Imposter Syndrome' . I doin t have that , more like the opposite of that .  So I have the opposite of the opposite of Dunning - Kruger  .....     ...  hang on .....

 

I'll get back to you on that .

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Eduardo said:

Being very sincere, I can point out that in many Masonic, Rosicrucian and Martinist orders they seek today to achieve the philosopher's stone through operative alchemy.

 

Arthur Edward Waite already described in his work on the Brotherhood of the Rose+Cross regarding the German order of the Red Rose and the Golden Cross regarding the alchemical teachings of each degree.

 

Very possibly the search for the true philosopher's stone is reserved for those who deserve this immense reward, despite the prejudices and ignorance of the current era, perhaps it is the first difficulty or dragon that the sincere seeker faces.

 

Good job !  A practical and historical  response .

 

 

 

 

https://srialondon.org/research-papers/the-order-of-the-gold-and-rose-cross-last-of-the-old-mago-mystics/

 

My tradition  ( I should note here , what I wrote about Biodynamics being a type of alchemical expression is not part of my initiatory tradition ) came out of old 'speculative' masonry as well   (as the  RC / GC ) .   In the past , before 'updating'  Steiner was the Grand Master of Austria in that  tradition . As one should , when one gets to a certain level , 'branch off' into one's 'Magnum Opus ' , which Steiner did with Anthroposophy , which was a blend of   that tradition , in parts ,   some alchemical principles ,  and the use of  'folk' farming principles to address dropping soil fertility before the advent of artificial  agricultural fertilizers  ( eg the use of clay and the method of stirring preparations  ; traditional  'clay singer '  - where certain types of clay would be dissolved in a barrel of water , stirring one way then the other as one sings into it a note scale going up for one way and down the other . I dont know why Steiner didnt teach the singing part of it . It is very effective  . Even with 'plain ' good water .  One notices a different sound the stirred vortex makes and the texture ( when it breaks up during the change of stirring direction  - the bubbles, froth and noise ) of the water differs after about 10 minutes of this stirring , the water 'changes' . An easy experiment one CAN try at home .... kids .  ( I added that last word for Cadcam    )

[blue eyed snake]

I have been stirring water with one of these alchemical thingies for a vineyard here in the neighbor hood, I found it interesting experience.did it together with someone else as it was a big rainbarrel and hard work for me but soon you fall into a rhythm  and then it goes all by itself.

"t was to make the abundant leavegrowth more resistant to  err... mildew and mold like things.

 

They have beautiful soil 

Edited January 20 by blue eyed snake

[Nungali]

1 minute ago, blue eyed snake said:

I have been stirring water with one of these alchemical thingies for a vineyard here in the neighbor hood, I found it interesting experience.did it together with someone else as it was a big rainbarrel and hard work for me but soon you fall into a rhythm  and then it goes all by itself.

"t was to make the abundant leavegrowth more resistant to  err... mildew and mold like things.

 

They have beautiful soil 

 

I am not sure of your location .  Do you have casurina trees there ?   Their leaves ( 'needles' )  can be used as a local  replacement for  Equisetum plant , a tradition anti-mold .    Some people here use a milk and water mix , spratyed on the leaves of things like zucchini  which gets a white powdery mildew .

 

Of course , try a small test patch first   

 

Vineyards where one of our biggest customers  for BD products , specially 501 .  Wine tasters claim it significantly effects the 'terrior '

 

Most can not taste the subtle differences in food but wine tasters have  very developed senses in that area .

 

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/understanding-terroir-elements-of-a-wines-terroir

 

BD effects mostly points 2 and 4 .

[blue eyed snake]

ah yes, 501 it was

I know of one such a tree in the neighborhood but easier to find is equisetum. Not for me though, have been housebound for many years now. Even light gardening is not possible anymore, but have become a good knitter.

 

this vineyard is still young, 20 or 30 years I guess I hear the wine is very good quality.

It was started by a local BD-farmer who saw that big, overgrown piece of land close by his land and asked the owner whether he could start a vinyard there. and it was all arranged and after lots of work and some very hard first years it now is a beautiful place that gives good crop.

 

In times unremembered it was the veggie garden of a big house and walls on all sides make the micro-climate slightly warmer then the surroundings. But also more humid with risk of mildew and mold

 

[Cobie]

22 hours ago, Nungali said:

… its more the opposite ..... 

 

For a moment there I was envisaging you sliding down from the PLATEAU, down the SLOPE (just for fun because you know the way up again anyway).   
 

 

Quote

hang on ..... I'll get back to you on that .

 

Righto.
 

 

Edited January 21 by Cobie

[Cadcam]

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Edited January 21 by Cadcam