Jesus in India ( Himalayas)

[Chang dao ling]

Hi, in Bhavishya puran ( on of the 18 Books written by sage veda vyasa author of epic Mahabharata) their is a interesting story. King salivahana meet Jesus in Himalayas. Salivahana see a man radiating golden light near manas sarovar.

Salivahana: who are you?

Jesus: I am " Isha putra"  ( son of God) i take prophethood in order to teach Barbarians Dharma. I believe Jesus learns yoga from Indian yogis and attain samadhi. In manas sarovar 

What's your opinion dear bums?

https://atmanism.wordpress.com/2019/04/14/jesus-christ-in-the-bhavishya-purana/

Edited January 4 by Chang dao ling

[snowymountains]

From the link you provided

 

"in the case of the Bhavishya Purana, Vyasa is providing a narration of events that will happen in the future"

 

So it sounds to me that this was an ancient prophesy, not a historical record of someone who said he was the son of god and went to the Himalayas.

 

As far as I'm aware there is no historical record of Jesus going neither to the Himalayas nor India.

 

A bishop from the church of England had written sometime ago that he believed that Jesus went to the druids in Britain.

To the best of my knowledge there's no historical proof for that and it's not the official position of the Church of England either.

 

There is also speculation that Jesus might had been familiar with Buddhism due to Buddhist emissaries having spread in the area, but there's no proof of that either.

 

The last supper symbolism is very similar to Orphic mysteries but again, there's no historical evidence that Jesus was an Orphic.

 

In terms of prophecies of Jesus the Erythraean Sybil's prophecy is probably the most well known one. Last time I had checked, while the majority of historians didn't accept it as a historical fact, there were some well regarded historians that did not reject it.

 

So at the end of the day, nobody knows something concrete, historical evidence doesn't point to much tbh.

 

What I believe to be true though is that Christianity is hugely underestimated in terms of how deep it is in terms of symbolism, contemplation, ceremony and even meditative traditions.

 

 

[Cobie]

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Edited January 7 by Cobie

[snowymountains]

19 minutes ago, Cobie said:

@snowymountains  thank you for your post, I agree entirely. 

I did find this ichthys reminiscent of the 8 spoke wheel (formed by putting Ι and Χ inside the Θ); but “…  it has also been proposed that the round symbol represents a loaf of bread.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

 

 

The 8 spoke wheel:

https://www.worldhistory.org/image/6471/dharma-wheel/#:~:text=The Dharmachakra (Skt%3A wheel of,Mindfulness%2C and Right Concentration). 

 

 

 

Thank you, I wasn't aware of this visual representation of ichthys ( you the 🐟 drawing ). It does look similar to a Dharma wheel indeed.

[Cobie]

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Edited January 7 by Cobie

[snowymountains]

Just now, Cobie said:

Yes. But then again, “…  it has also been proposed that the round symbol represents a loaf of bread.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys 

Or possibly it was not meant to look like anything at all, just a letters-symbol as they were and are used a lot, e.g. Chi-Rho (☧).

 

 

 

I didn't imply it's a copycat! Just that they look visually similar.

 

My belief is that some parts of the symbolism is common among religions because these symbols are ingrained in our brains and thus go viral quickly when adopted by institutions or movements. But it's impossible to prove or disprove such a statement.

[Cobie]

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Edited January 7 by Cobie

[Cobie]

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Edited January 7 by Cobie

[Cobie]

@Trunk I have added your beautiful ‘lemon’ drawing to my list of: light bulb, golden flower and star. The 8 spoke wheel as well imo depicts the same one phenomenon. 
 

 

Edited January 6 by Cobie

[Trunk]

2 hours ago, Cobie said:

@Trunk I have added your beautiful ‘lemon’ drawing to my list of: light bulb, golden flower and star. The 8 spoke wheel as well imo depicts the same one phenomenon.

  thank you

 

Yup! ... and the hole in the center makes it a functional (dharma) wheel.

[Chang dao ling]

6 hours ago, snowymountains said:

meditative traditions.

Christianity has meditation practices? 

 

[snowymountains]

6 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

Christianity has meditation practices? 

 

 

It does, noera proseusche ( spelling may be butchered), it works similar to a koan, a phrase is repeated over and over.

It's meant to be repeated 24/7, it's done in the hypnagogic stage as well and a friend who practices this tells me the aim is to get lucidity and the phrase continues while dreaming.

There's also a whole Christian version of mindfulness, "philokalia".

 

Edited January 6 by snowymountains

[Chang dao ling]

4 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

It does, noera proseusche ( spelling may be butchered), it works similar to a koan, a phrase is repeated over and over.

It's meant to be repeated 24/7, it's done in the hypnagogic stage as well and a friend who practices this tells me the aim is to get lucidity and the phrase continues while dreaming.

There's also a whole Christian version of mindfulness, "philokalia".

 

I heard Saint peter has the ability to levitate. According to yoga there are three ways to achive this.

1. By combining prana( solar energy )and apana ( lunar energy) in the navel chakra.

2. Reaching Nirvitatraka samadhi ( second level of samadhi according to sage patanjali)

3. By invoking mantra ( spells) 

What's your opinion bro?

Edited January 6 by Chang dao ling

[NaturaNaturans]

It is at least very likley that the pre Christian and muslim populations of Persia and Europe enganged in it. The Sufis, for example. Some ambient structures that seem to be made for the ambience and making mantras. And for many, prayer is a form for meditations as well. Greagorian chants could maybe also be considered mediatqtion? Or maybe just sitting alone on a mountain top, watching the landscape in silence, witch is a very popular activity in my part of the world.

 

And findings like the osaberg Buddha:

Found in the osaberg ship burial from the 8th century i belive (Norway).

 

One of the more famous works from the roman times, is the diary of emperor Aurialies. It was given the tittle meditations when discovered and published. Reason being that "Meditation" means inner reflection or thought. Maybe not the exact same as the eastern version, but i see similarities.

 

 

[NaturaNaturans]

Btw, i was TOLD once by a Norwegian hindu, that the best way to understand norse Paganism was by getting familiar with hinduism, as in their earlier forms they would have been fairly closely connected, all euro pagan tradition have been exterminated and the few sources we have from the late medival.

swatzika, the wheel etc was common symbolism in both cultures. Jul is what we call the winter solstice for example, whitch means wheel. The word for wheel are cognates in every single indo-euro language. 
 

Trundholm sun chariot, 1500-1300 bce:

Quote

The Trundholm sun chariot (Danish: Solvognen) is a Nordic Bronze Age artifact discovered in Denmark. It is a representation of the  sun chariot, a bronze statue of a horse and a large bronze disk, which are placed on a device with spoked wheels.

 

further more we have a good amount do evidence of europeans in south and central Asia, and when you look at heraclits philosophy i think it is pretty buddhist, and they would have been around at the exact same time.

[NaturaNaturans]

Back to Jesus. Jesus in India? I doubt it. But that the Jesus Persona was influenced by myths like that of Mithras for example, i think  an indirect connection is not to far fetched

[snowymountains]

58 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

I heard Saint peter has the ability to levitate. According to yoga there are three ways to achive this.

1. By combining prana( solar energy )and apana ( lunar energy) in the navel chakra.

2. Reaching Nirvitatraka samadhi ( second level of samadhi according to sage patanjali)

3. By invoking mantra ( spells) 

What's your opinion bro?

 

My opinion is that levitation is impossible.

 

I'm afraid I don't know what the Christian texts say about St. Peter and levitation, and if they say something, if that is to be interpreted literally or as a metaphor.

 

As I'm not practicing yoga, I can't comment on these exercises, but having done in different traditions breathing exercises, Samatha meditation and chanting ( chanting is practiced an energy practice in some Mahayana schools ), I can certainly say I've never levitated, I've never seen anyone levitate, nor have I met someone of a sane mind who claimed they can levitate, including Buddhist monks of various yanas [*].

 

That's so because it's impossible to levitate, you'd need a force to counter gravity, that would effectively act like jet packs.

 

Remember what the historical Buddha offered is a way out of suffering, not the equivalent of jet packs, Christ also never promised jet packs.

 

So why look for the equivalent of jet packs in spiritual traditions.

 

[*] There is a Buddhist text which does mention levitation if I recall correctly, though I've never spent time reading it, nor had any of my teachers spent time discussing it. The fact that something was written thousands of years ago doesn't mean we need to take all its statements at face value in 2024.

Edited January 6 by snowymountains

[Maddie]

Here's a question that I don't think has been asked yet. What exactly did Jesus teach that was so novel or significant? I don't really see anything amazing in the gospels and somethings quite disturbing to be honest. 

[snowymountains]

9 minutes ago, Maddie said:

Here's a question that I don't think has been asked yet. What exactly did Jesus teach that was so novel or significant? I don't really see anything amazing in the gospels and somethings quite disturbing to be honest. 

 

Jesus taught that people should focus on love and care for each other. The ancient world was cruel, this was a transformative teaching.

 

Ancient religions started off as very cruel, with human sacrifices, then this was abandoned and went to animal sacrifices. Then this was abandoned and they turned eg to symbolism where wine was a symbol for blood, as in the Orphic rite that has survived to this day as Eucharist. So there was a progression towards civility.

The message Jesus spread went a step further and was revolutionary for the times, even in a literal sense as it transformed the whole Roman empire. People at the time had a deep need inside them for a message like this.

Edited January 6 by snowymountains

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

Jesus taught that people should focus on love and care for each other. The ancient world was cruel, this was a transformative teaching.

 

Ancient religions started off as very cruel, with human sacrifices, then this was abandoned and went to animal sacrifices. Then this was abandoned and they turned eg to symbolism where wine was a symbol for blood, as in the Orphic rite that has survived to this day as Eucharist. So there was a progression towards civility.

The message Jesus spread went a step further and was revolutionary for the times, even in a literal sense as it transformed the whole Roman empire. People at the time had a deep need inside them for a message like this.

 

This was being taught before Jesus. 

 

Can you give a specific example of something that Jesus taught that was new, revolutionary AND changed the world?

[snowymountains]

5 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

This was being taught before Jesus. 

 

Can you give a specific example of something that Jesus taught that was new, revolutionary AND changed the world?

 

That message wasn't the core teaching before Jesus, the Roman/Greek Gods were more coersive that Jesus' God, who was more compassionate.

 

That message is what was revolutionary and literally changed the world, Christianity was adopted massively by the lower classes, forcing the upper class to adopt it so that they could claim legitimacy in the eyes of the people.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, snowymountains said:

Jesus' God, who was more compassionate.

 

I don't think the Greco-Roman gods throw someone into hell for forever if they don't believe in them? Doesn't seem to compassionate to me?

[snowymountains]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

I don't think the Greco-Roman gods throw someone into hell for forever if they don't believe in them? Doesn't seem to compassionate to me?

 They'd kill someone in the blink of an. eye just because Zeus wanted to shag his wife 😁.

 

Actually, I don't think it's as simple as those who don't believe in Jesus end up in hell, I had discussed this with a Christian theologist and what I recall is that he concurred that if someone lived with love and picked the religion they genuinely believed to be serving other people, even if that was not Christianity, then the outcome would not be hell.

I can't back this statement with scripture on my own as my knowledge of Christian scriptures and their relative significances is limited but his arguments were based on scripture, not personal belief.

[silent thunder]

No support that the man we talk about as jesus, actually ever existed as anything other than an allegory.

[Maddie]

Just now, snowymountains said:

 They'd kill someone in the blink of an. eye just because Zeus wanted to shag his wife 😁.

 

Actually, I don't think it's as simple as those who don't believe in Jesus end up in hell, I had discussed this with a Christian theologist and what I recall is that he concurred that if someone lived with love and picked the religion they genuinely believed to be serving other people, even if that was not Christianity, then the outcome would not be hell.

I can't back this statement with scripture on my own as my knowledge of Christian scriptures and their relative significances is limited but his arguments were based on scripture, not personal belief.

 

That very well might have been his personal understanding, but it was not the historical understanding of the Church throughout the millennia. It also does not seem to be what Jesus himself taught.  

 

John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

The theologist then seem to be more compassionate than the all compassionate and all loving Christian god somehow.