ejaculation, orgasm, preorgasmic sex, I am confused!

[markern]

I`m getting very confused by what I am reading over at AYP and at certain other Tantra sites about orgasm. It is clear that they recommend that you ejaculate a lot less than at present but it also seems like they want you to stopp having orgasms al toghether and have what they call preorgasmic sex. I am confused about wether this is just another word for the taoist mal multiple whole body orgasms without ejaculation or wether it actualy means not having orgasms at all. They talk about stopping and cooling down and sometimes using a locking techique when you are close to orgasm but recommend doing this quite far from the point of no return. When I hav read about male multiple orgasms before it has been explained as going so close that the pelvic, prostate, anal and penis contractions just barely start and then staying on that edge an going back and forth. This way you get contionous contractions that start small and get bigger but don`t pull you over into ejaculation. This type of orgasm is supposed to feel more internal, deeper and also more in your upper body but it is still an orgasm and definitevly as strong or stronger than normal once you master it. What it seems like to me that AYP recommends is stopping before any contractions start al togheter and staying in that zone building up a blissfull energy. This then means you do not have orgasms of any kind but you have bliss. What they say it seems to me can be interperated in both ways and I am wondering wich they mean. I thought that as long as one skipped ejaculations there would be no energy loss despite of orgasms and as long as one could manage to integrate the energy in a good way through balancing practices of various kinds then this would be the most beneficial for your spiritual practice.

 

So is it like this: orgasm with ejaculation is very depleting, orgasm without ejaculation is energizing but not as energizing as forgoing orgasms al togheter and being in the preorgasmic bliss without ejaculation?

 

Another related question is the reltionship between enlightenment an celibacy. I got the impression in my previous thread about retention and celibacy that most here view celibacy as something wich comes automaticly with enlightenment. However, I have been researching that topic lately since I have no desire for celibacy and I\ve found that a lot of people disagree. Jack Kornfield interviewed a lot of enlightened masters about their sex lives and found that only a minority were celibate. Beyond that these people were everyting from slightly sexualy active to vwery promiscuos. In general what Kornfield concluded with was that sex usualy do not go away but that most of the masters were as "unenlightened" in their sex lives as everyone else. They had left it out of their spiritual practice and therefore not grown with regard to sex.

 

I also found i site wich discussed Advait Vedanta and most who reach enlightenment in that tradition remain sexualy active. I\ve also read that B.K.S Iyengar, Krisnamacharia and Desikachar disagree that enligthenment should lead to celibacy although they are not opposed to it.

[Patrick Brown]

Hmm all I've got to say about this is that women reabsorb their vaginal juices (the tide of yin) and Lao Tze stated that the more it moves the more it yields so you work it out.

[Trunk]

.... Jack Kornfield interviewed a lot of enlightened masters about their sex lives and found that only a minority were celibate. Beyond that these people were everyting from slightly sexualy active to vwery promiscuos. In general what Kornfield concluded with was that sex usualy do not go away

After having been in eastern-influenced spiritual groups for around 25 yrs, from what I've seen/heard/read, that sounds right. So, I'd agree with the quoted, above.

 

However, this next quote is astray, I think.

but that most of the masters were as "unenlightened" in their sex lives as everyone else. They had left it out of their spiritual practice and therefore not grown with regard to sex.

In what regard? Are you still clinging to the preconception/standard that celibacy = enlightenment in some way?

 

I can think of three non-celibate teachers off the top of my head who were ... legendary for their mystical accomplishment. Giants in the field. Leaders in their lineages. And, oh, yeah, enlightened.

 

I'd suggest that there's a lot of mistaken ideas floating about re: sex and spirituality, and you ("you" meaning "all of us in general") need a durable well tuned bullshit-meter.

 

~ later ~

Do you have a reference to that work by Kornfield?; I'd be interested in reading it.

[Spectrum]

Give everything. Lose nothing.

[xenolith]

Give everything. Lose nothing.

Gain everything.

[agharta]

Avoid extremes in sexual practice. Idealism is a very, very foolish thing in this area. Many here can attest to this, including myself. I don't recommend long-term (decades) celibacy, though I think it can be done well, nor do I recommend stopping ejaculating altogether, although again, I think it can be done well. To do either one, you need emotional maturity, detachment from the goal, a realistic attitude about your reasons for attempting either, and a lot of good experience or some good teaching. Experience comes through messing yourself up and being lucky enough to survive and recover, so I suggest waiting for good teaching before trying celibacy or total retention.

 

In general, regular (dozens of times daily) tailbone contractions that actually move the tailbone are very, VERY good at transforming the energy in that area, if you are trying retention. They also have the side effect of increasing your energy levels. I also recommend a diet that has a lot of raw or lightly-cooked animal products, and lots of fats, especially good-quality raw or lightly-cooked animal fats. This makes retention much harder, but...the retention that you achieve through a vegan fruitarian diet or some such is a false retention. It's easy to retain Jing when you are not replenishing it adequately through diet.

Edited May 20, 2008 by agharta

[Desert Eagle]

Excuse me, could someone please tell me what AYP stands for?

[Trunk]

Excuse me, could someone please tell me what AYP stands for?

Advanced Yoga Practices (www.aypsite.org). Site with free lessons, free forum, books if you want to buy them.

[Desert Eagle]

Advanced Yoga Practices (www.aypsite.org). Site with free lessons, free forum, books if you want to buy them.

 

Thanks, and also for putting the link in your sig.

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah today I had an amazing session with two young females. They each took turns. Two climaxes with one, then four with the other, then two more with the first one, then a fifth one with the second female.

 

Then I went to hang with this room of old Leftists -- I mean OLD. They were soaking up the energy. -- Just like the females had been! Only since I had "collected the N/um of the young maidens" -- the electrochemical energy -- I was able to convert that back into electromagnetic energy to shoot into the old males.

 

So the energy just flows like that.

[Patrick Brown]

Yeah today I had an amazing session with two young females. They each took turns. Two climaxes with one, then four with the other, then two more with the first one, then a fifth one with the second female.

 

Then I went to hang with this room of old Leftists -- I mean OLD. They were soaking up the energy. -- Just like the females had been! Only since I had "collected the N/um of the young maidens" -- the electrochemical energy -- I was able to convert that back into electromagnetic energy to shoot into the old males.

 

So the energy just flows like that.

Hmm so you really are a good shepherd? You do realise that's illegal in most countries!

 

[voidisyinyang]

Too bad this book is out of stock and not listed at abebooks nor alibris.

 

But then what do you expect from the "father" of the CIA's remote viewing secret black-ops?

 

http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Ps...20Contents.html

 

Wow -- it's only in two libraries nationwide.

 

That would be quite the ILL order....oops! haha.

Edited May 22, 2008 by drew hempel

[Patrick Brown]

Does it mention anything about sitting at the back of the bus, you know just above the engine? It always gave me a stiffy!

 

On a more serious note (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I am actually aware that sexual energy does travel.

[voidisyinyang]

Can you perform ON COMMAND at all times is what I want to know. I've got the first climax down no problem while standing. Just focus the pineal gland, adam's apple starts pulsating, chi is shooting into female, adam's apple pulsates faster, more chi goes into, more, -- then the climax UP the back and the woody takes a bit of time to go down after that. Not only that but I'm able to respond, ON COMMAND, to body language signals by females who are basically requesting this from me.

 

Just think how amazing it is that modern males can't do this -- how messed up society is because of modern males inability.

 

I've yet to do two in a row while standing (that I can remember) while the third climax is the "real" one -- in male terms that is. In the vagus nerve terms the first two are build ups and the third might cause a bit of leakage, like preseminal fluid. The 4th is a "come down" and the fifth opens the heart chakra.

 

That's about the limit for public mutual O at a Ds that I've done at one time, with about 25 or so as the day's total. That will make me sore in the loins! Definite psychic work out as well since you won't be hungry -- and all stress will be released.

 

Just saw FORBIDDEN KINGDOM -- great full-lotus flick for sure! My energy was super high after words.