The Spiritual Force of Gratitude

[liminal_luke]

I won´t be feasting on my mom´s delicious giblet-rich stuffing this Thanksgiving, but that doesn´t mean I have nothing to be grateful for.  Or at least that´s what many of the online newsletter writers I subscribe to tell me. So I´m wondering...do any of my Bum friends practice bringing gratitude into their lives in structured ways?  Any gratitude contemplators?  Gratitude journalers?  I´d be grateful for your perspectives, tips, and suggestions. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Taomeow]

Happy Thanksgiving to you!  

  

To me, gratitude means quite a bit more when it's expressed in actions.  Thoughts, feelings, words that don't translate into doing something good for whoever one is grateful to... (or at least not doing anything bad against them...) ...not so much. 

 

I had a best friend.  We had a falling out.  Then, after a very long time, something happened that prompted her to reestablish the contact, and she told me she has always been and will always be grateful for what I've done for her and her family.  Which by the way wasn't a small thing, or a one-time thing -- I completely changed her life for massively better (and yet I didn't feel particularly "entitled" to any gratitude because it was, as they say, "straight from the heart," and mutual, and I could thank her similarly for what she had done for me.)  While the break-up and the loss of a best friend was painful for both of us and took a while to adjust to, after her belated verbal acknowledgement, frankly, I felt nothing in particular.  So she's grateful.  So how did it help me in any of the times of need while our lives took their separate courses, or alternatively, how did it enhance my joy when she wasn't sharing it with me?  Gratitude seems to have an expiration date, and adding preservatives (in the form of any which imposed structure) might extend its shelf life...  but I feel it means infinitely more when expressed in action at the time felt.  So most of the time I neither dispense nor consume canned or stale gratitude...  except out of politeness of course, which is not exactly the same as "straight from the heart."   

 

 

[S:C]

(I like the topic title, it seems so grandioso and powerful!) 
Journaling every once in a while, but rather arts and work… daily life in progress, some actions I guess I do out of gratitude, and I do try to express it, if I do feel it from the heart. 

[liminal_luke]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too, @Taomeow!

 

A Thanksgiving story.  One time a friend invited me to a big Thanksgiving dinner with a bunch of his friends, basically four couples and single me.  We were all seated and ready to eat but the host wanted us to go around the table and each say what we were grateful for.  I was slotted to share last.  To a person, everybody said they were grateful for their partner.  As you might imagine, by the time they got around to me I wasn´t in a particularly grateful mood.  (Now that I´ve been partnered for a long while I know just what I could of said.  That I was grateful to be single, to do what I want, when I want and answer to nobody.  I didn´t have the perspective at the time.)

Edited November 23, 2023 by liminal_luke

[liminal_luke]

47 minutes ago, S:C said:

(I like the topic title, it seems so grandioso and powerful!) 
 

 

Thanks, S:C.  I do think gratitude is a spiritual force, or can be when it´s genuine.  Perhaps not, as Taomeow points out, when it´s "canned" or "stale."  I think gratitude is a laser that cuts through emotional armor --  our own and others --  cleaner than most anything else.

Edited November 23, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

Happy Thanksgiving to you too, @Taomeow!

 

A Thanksgiving story.  One time a friend invited me to a big Thanksgiving dinner with a bunch of his friends, basically four couples and single me.  We were all seated and ready to eat but the host wanted us to go around the table and each say what we were grateful for.  I was slotted to share last.  To a person, everybody said they were grateful for their partner.  As you might imagine, by the time they got around to me I wasn´t in a particularly grateful mood.  (Now that I´ve been partnered for a long while I know just what I could of said.  That I was grateful to be single, to do what I want, when I want and answer to nobody.  I didn´t have the perspective at the time.)

 

Nice story.  And you were not wrong.  There's blessings in both modes, especially for those who are good at viewing whatever is going on in their lives as a blessing.   In any event, either mode can also be a mixed blessing.      

 

Being grateful "for" something could be an endless litany...  E.g., orthodox Judaism has a daily gratitude prayer where god is thanked, among other things, "for not making me a woman."  Obviously only half of all believers can possibly be grateful for that, but for the ones that are it's a gift that keeps giving.  In a similar vein, someone who has two legs could be grateful "for" not having only one, and someone with this or that skin color, for not being a different color, and someone who has a brother, for not being saddled with a sister instead, and if the brother is older, why not express gratitude for his not being your younger brother (thus reserving the "spoiled little brat" spot for you rather than taking it for himself) and so on.  Grateful for being whatever nationality -- e.g. Hungarian -- or for not being Hungarian (one look at a random word from that language and gratitude overflows -- e.g. Megszentségteleníthetetlenségeskedéseitekért, and yes it is a word).  As a Chinese proverb goes, one walks knee deep in Buddhas, there's always something to be grateful "for." 

 

I guess I more readily relate to being grateful "to" a human or an animal -- for what they do or for what they are.  

[Cobie]

5 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

… a random word from that language and gratitude overflows -- e.g. Megszentségteleníthetetlenségeskedéseitekért …

Not random, it’s their longest word. But the Dutch have longer words.  

[liminal_luke]

8 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

  

  E.g., orthodox Judaism has a daily gratitude prayer where god is thanked, among other things, "for not making me a woman."    

 

There were so many ways I could of responded to your last post -- wow, thanks, or "hahaha" all seemed equally appropriate so in the end I settled for a simple like.  This first example, however, is definitely worthy of a wow.  If I turn this thread into an essay about the "culture war" surrounding transexuality nobody will be grateful to me.  So I´ll confine myself to noting that, for some men,  the above expression of thankfulness doesn´t trip off the tongue.

[Nungali]

Lovely title !   I affirm it is  also 'psychologically potent ' .  In my studies tracking religious influences , one aspect is to eliminate as much superfluous  stuff as I can and distil it all down to a few simple practices anyone can undertake . There are a few main ones but  'expressing and feeling gratitude is right up there near the top .

 

I started to come to this years back,  as during one of my practices  ( 'adoration' of the Sun at its four 'stations' ) the sunset aspect was 'Joy' .   That mystified me for a bit , but eventually  after persevering I realised what better way to end each day with realising it IS all joy ....  express the joy and gratitude of having yet another day alive .  Even if it was the worst day of your life , you can even have joy ... that that day is over     .

 

he lesson was re-affirmed in every way : my indigenous teacher  ;  " Constantly show appreciation  and thanks for what you have and are being given  , acknowledge  ... 'Booglebear '  ;   thank you  / yes it is good /  I am learning from the experience .

 

And further ( more potent ) is to make offerings of appreciation  and I would say , the number of times you do that is more important than making a huge big show about it , it can be very simple .  Eventually , even in times  trouble or despair  one can be grateful the situation could not be worse , or grateful the situation is good , grateful for being alive ... or even just 'existing ' .

 

You can be even grateful for what you DON"T  have .     

 

( like an apartment in the city and a 'good' job in an accounting firm      ) 

[Nungali]

35 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

  E.g., orthodox Judaism has a daily gratitude prayer where god is thanked, among other things, "for not making me a woman."  ....

 

 

I can dig it .  I'd make a terrible woman !  ...  I have lack of patience , tolerance, consideration , listening ....  dont want to have kids, 'acting' like colds and flu are not that bad and you can carry on regardless   ,  etc. etc .   

 

maybe others should pray for that ?  :

 

" Dear God , thank you for not making Nungali a woman . " 

[liminal_luke]

15 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

And further ( more potent ) is to make offerings of appreciation  and I would say , the number of times you do that is more important than making a huge big show about it , it can be very simple .  

 

This feels important to me and I´m wondering if you could say something more about it.  What exactly is an offering and how do you make it?  I guess if it was a living person one felt gratitude for one could give a small gift.  But how would you make an offering to, say, the dead lineage of teachers who practiced a particular qigong form? Perhaps with incense?  Sometimes I´ve started a practice with an expression of gratitude to the practitioners who have come before me.  I like doing this and have thought about making it a regular part of my routine.  

Edited November 23, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

3 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

This feels important to me and I´m wondering if you could say something more about it.  What exactly is an offering and how do you make it? 

 

Look into 'Yasna' or Yajna  or  any religion that does similar . Of course the main thing is your attitude and any ritual is designed  to  focus that .  Think of it like having a good Mum ;  she is gonna love a real gift of love and appreciation, serious and heart felt , kid gives her a  simple hand drawn picture , that might be better a huge expensive present given as some type of 'bye off' with no sentiment attached .

 

I do anything from  making some flower arrangement , food , fruit ,   anything,  it might be on what I use for an inside altar  or on a plate or flat stone in  the garden .  . Its a 'microcosm' of the big offering ; ie yourself .After our our ' Lovefest '   festival , I noticed one   afterwards , it was at the base of a big tree , a circle of flowers and  fruit, flowers  and various objects inside that . 

 

Its a 'microcosm' of the big offering ; ie yourself . In my system it goes like this ; one of the primal reasons for being , in this material world , is 'we are the sight and senses'  of the Gods , we are here to experience what they can not experience , even it can be the 'simple joys of life' ; they act through you and we 'send' our experience up to them .  This can be one reason why , offering things to the gods , we then consume them .  Any experience can be offered , like a drink of water .

 

 I have started even doing this ,  I really like my morning coffee , the 2nd one I have , sitting out in the garden , appreciating the beautiful nature and my part in it all .  I have it sweet , and that last gulp is often the best .   So I dont finish it , I give that part to 'Mother Earth ' . here I like to get a little technical ; I make a 'libation ' that is, you dont just 'chuck it '  on the ground or hoik it up to the air  ( unless you a priest      *   ) , I pour it carefully in a slow stream to the earth .

 

Libation

 

 

In Voodoun ritual I did , the Loas each have a special thing they like and prefer to be offered .  In that particular ritual , it was all about offerings and the related associated things ;   eggs , maybe cigar smoke ,  mouth sprays of rum ,   even  'string of pearls' or new white lady's  gloves        (one of the Loas was a  a white woman that helped the black people so much that 'deified her' after she died , she is now a valid Loa and 'appears  in he long white dress, hat gloves and handbag , and the string of pearls she liked to wear around her neck )  .

 

One of the biggest  offerings one can make here , is to make a safe space / garden  , or by the river or wherever , where children can play in joy safety and wonder  ...... under the gaze of Nungli and 'Big Mom " 
 

 ( Nungli was an old man set to watch and guard the women and children of the local  tribe  while the men went off hunting meat . He fell asleep on watch , and  nasties from the west had been tracking the tribe and spying on them .   When the men got back they found the women and children stolen and old Nungli asleep .   He was put in the mountain to ensure he stayed there on watch.  Nungli is also a huge startling rock feature that looks like an aboriginal man's face looking up the valley  .  So there is a LOT going on here associated with that story )

 

'Feast of the Dead ' you would be familiar with  , in Mexico , also All Hallows , Samhain , All Saints Day, etc .  Food is offered to the departed .    My lovely friend on the otherside  gets occasional perfume oil  or a flower in front of her picture , the other end of the shelf  is Grandfather's photo   - he liked to smoke, so sometimes I burn some pipe tobacco .    A while back, for fun. I  put some  lovely  good quality  hash in it .   I got a voice in my head saying  " Oh, that's familiar !  I remember that from when I travelled through Turkey ! " 

Grandpa  !  .... you '  old devil ' !     

 

Then there is prasadum , you can partake of others offerings ;  Hare Krishna, or Sikh temple .

 

 

3 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

 

I guess if it was a living person one felt gratitude for one could give a small gift.  But how would you make an offering to, say, the dead lineage of teachers who practiced a particular qigong form?

 

However you like  - here is an example how they do it officially  in aikido ;

 

to the east of dojo you have 'Shomen' ( sorta means 'head )  a picture of 'ancestor'  ( Ueshiba ...   maybe his son , lower ), there are certain elements that should appear on the altar or near it ; the three weapons ; jo, tanto and boken , a space for some flowers , something alive , something that was alive , maybe an interesting piece of  driftwood , a stone etc.    and some other things , you bow to it and acknowledge before and after training .

 

One thing I would do is cite the following, when teaching ,   " I see so far as I stand on the shoulders of those that came before me and taught me . "  Or when initiating, at the crucial moment , imagine all your teachers piled up on top of you within your ' stream of connection to the above ' , or as some put it  ..... sitting on your head . And their teacher on  their head ... and so on .

 

 

3 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

 

Perhaps with incense?  Sometimes I´ve started a practice with an expression of gratitude to the practitioners who have come before me.  I like doing this and have thought about making it a regular part of my routine.  

 

Certainly incense is acceptable .  The same applies here ; certain 'Gods'  like specific incenses  and those are used to 'attract them'  bring their properties into yourself .  Eg  'perfume' of Mars is Tobacco , Venus is Jasmine ....  and that comes from 'tables of Correspondences '  (see Agrippa ) .

 

I would say  it could be , when advanced , a crucial preliminary step in your routine .   Much like any ritual should start with a banishing / balancing .

 

If you connect with those practitioners and teachers enough ... they might even 'appear ' and teach and help train you .

 

I remember  doing a little seminar  on what I thought  the 'real' meaing of the moves where in one of obscure forms , I was scoffed at .... at first . Even the then instructor (who didnt know the applications himself ) was impressed . They tried and tested me  but had to admit it seemed pretty valid and actually worked in a 'situation' . Instructor actually accused me of training elsewhere to get all that .  Nah, not at all .  I was asked how I knew then .  " Well , dont you guys ever train in your imagination  ( astral ) , get a partner or ancient teacher up , try stuff out with them and see if it works , or adopt what they show you ?   Thats how "

 

It went very quiet ... I got strange looks . One guy got out   "  No . "   - Geeze !   I'll never say THAT again at training  ! 

[Nungali]

I got an 'offering'  while writing the above ;   a picture via text from my 'paramour' , a rare and never before seen ( by me )  'fringed orchid ' .

 

Marvellous !   Booglebear , thank you     .

[Taomeow]

Mikhail Lermontov, one of the greatest Russian poets, wrote this poem in 1840, at the age of 25. 

He was killed in a duel a year later.

 

GRATITUDE

 

For everything, for everything I thank thee:

For hidden passions' pain that never ends,

For bitter tears, a poison kiss to taint me,

For vengeful foes and fickle, sland'ring friends;

For fire of my soul in deserts wasted,

For all conniving ways life's done me wrong...

Aplenty of this cup thy servant's tasted…

Please grant I’ll not be thanking thee for long.

 

Translation Copyright ©2017 David Mark Bennett

[liminal_luke]

Continuing with the poetic theme of giving thanks for occasions of dubious merit, here´s one by W.S. Merwin.

 

Thanks

BY W. S. MERWIN

Listen

with the night falling we are saying thank you

we are stopping on the bridges to bow from the railings

we are running out of the glass rooms

with our mouths full of food to look at the sky

and say thank you

we are standing by the water thanking it

standing by the windows looking out

in our directions

 

back from a series of hospitals back from a mugging

after funerals we are saying thank you

after the news of the dead

whether or not we knew them we are saying thank you

 

over telephones we are saying thank you

in doorways and in the backs of cars and in elevators

remembering wars and the police at the door

and the beatings on stairs we are saying thank you

in the banks we are saying thank you

in the faces of the officials and the rich

and of all who will never change

we go on saying thank you thank you

 

with the animals dying around us

taking our feelings we are saying thank you

with the forests falling faster than the minutes

of our lives we are saying thank you

with the words going out like cells of a brain

with the cities growing over us

we are saying thank you faster and faster

with nobody listening we are saying thank you

thank you we are saying and waving

dark though it is

Edited November 24, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Taoist Texts]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:26 PM, liminal_luke said:

Any gratitude contemplators?  Gratitude journalers?  I´d be grateful for your perspectives, tips, and suggestions. 

ok now, friend,  it goes like this: either you are grateful for yourself  OR you are caring for someone. You have to chose. If you you care for them  then you would be ungrateful for you being you. It is a very simple choice. Either grateful for you being you OR care for someone else. Thats the suggestion: gratitude and care are incompatible. A man gotta chose what he gotta chose. Either your life-long happiness or their momentary satisfaction. Choose now. 

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

ok now, friend,  it goes like this: either you are grateful for yourself  OR you are caring for someone. You have to chose. If you you care for them  then you would be ungrateful for you being you. It is a very simple choice. Either grateful for you being you OR care for someone else. Thats the suggestion: gratitude and care are incompatible. A man gotta chose what he gotta chose. Either your life-long happiness or their momentary satisfaction. Choose now. 

 

Thanks.  Although your words aren´t the easiest for me to hear, I sense the sincerity with which they are given.  It takes courage to write the thing that everybody knows but few will say, but I suppose I don´t have to tell you that.

[liminal_luke]

14 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Mikhail Lermontov, one of the greatest Russian poets, wrote this poem in 1840, at the age of 25. 

He was killed in a duel a year later.

 

GRATITUDE

 

For everything, for everything I thank thee:

For hidden passions' pain that never ends,

For bitter tears, a poison kiss to taint me,

For vengeful foes and fickle, sland'ring friends;

For fire of my soul in deserts wasted,

For all conniving ways life's done me wrong...

Aplenty of this cup thy servant's tasted…

Please grant I’ll not be thanking thee for long.

 

Translation Copyright ©2017 David Mark Bennett

 

I don´t think Bennett and Merwin would see eye to eye on the subject of gratitude.  Despite some surface similarities between their poems, Bennett treats the topic with more tongue-in-cheek humor.  It occurs to me that I could start a companion thread to this one entitled The Spiritual Force of Refusing to Deny the Suckiness of Sucky Things.  And I do believe that´s a spiritual force too, every bit as powerful as gratitude, although, alas, there´s no special holiday trumpeting it´s virtue.  

Edited November 24, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Cobie]

3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

… Either … or … Choose now. 

Isn’t Daoism supposed to be about finding a balance?

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Cobie

[wandelaar]

Whenever I feel bad about something I deliberately count my blessings:

 

- No war in my country.

- No natural disasters in my country.

- I'm not suffering from debilitating diseases or psychological problems.

- I don't have financial troubles.

- I don't have relational troubles.

- I have a roof above my head and clothes to wear.

- I have enough to eat.

- I have many interesting books and records.

Etc, etc.

 

Realizing all this is often enough to feel gratitude notwithstanding the minor hassles of life. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by wandelaar

[Cobie]

.

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Cobie

[Taoist Texts]

53 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Isn’t Daoism supposed to be about finding a balance?

he he, no absolutely not. daoism is about survival.

 

[silent thunder]

wow... just wow.

 

stunning

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I don´t think Bennett and Merwin would see eye to eye on the subject of gratitude.  Despite some surface similarities between their poems, Bennett treats the topic with more tongue-in-cheek humor.  It occurs to me that I could start a companion thread to this one entitled The Spiritual Force of Refusing to Deny the Suckiness of Sucky Things.  And I do believe that´s a spiritual force too, every bit as powerful as gratitude, although, alas, there´s no special holiday trumpeting it´s virtue.  

 

Bennett is the translator.  The author is Lermontov.  There's several translations of this (famous in Russian) poem into English in existence, I was just looking for the one "more literal," i.e. closest to the original.  All of them lose the music (it's hard to sing like Placido Domingo if you're not at least Pavarotti) but now I see the one I quoted also loses the mood...  and that's how tongue-in-cheek humor could occur to the reader.  The original follows the Romanticism tradition and is heart-wrenchingly tragic -- the protagonist (actually a self-portrait of the author) is this stiff-upper-lipped sufferer who is "grateful" out of pride and restraint -- as an antidote to lamenting and complaining.

 

Your idea about "The Spiritual Force of Refusing to Deny the Suckiness of Sucky Things" thread is excellent.    

As synchronicity would have it I just finished a Norwegian novel whose female protagonist is grateful for everything she has, all the time -- and it starts out on such happy uplifting notes that you can't but admire and even envy her.  And then things gradually start turning  darker and darker -- but the main protagonist won't budge, she's determined to remain happy and grateful no matter what.  And eventually it starts translating into a peculiar lack of empathy for those who don't feel the way she does.  She just can't relate to situations where someone, in order not to disown her own feelings (and ultimately her own reality) should be cursing one's fate instead of being grateful.  Even if this someone is herself.