Whats your purpose/meaning or life?

[NaturaNaturans]

Whats your motivation to get Out of bed? Whats your higher aim? Do you belive its a universal answer to this? Why do good instead of bad?

 

Ill kick of the discussion with two of my favorite qoutes: 

“I don't believe people are looking for the meaning of life as much as they are looking for the experience of being alive.”

― Joseph Campbell

 

“No one imagines that a symphony is supposed to improve as it goes along, or that the whole object of playing is to reach the finale. The point of music is discovered in every moment of playing and listening to it. It is the same, I feel, with the greater part of our lives, and if we are unduly absorbed in improving them we may forget altogether to live them.”

― Alan Watts

Edited October 10, 2023 by mat

[NaturaNaturans]

I am doing some writng for my self, and so far, this is the closest answer to nihilism ive found:

 

 For him (Aristotle), humans were the rational beings. Through reason and virtuous action, we can approach the perfection of our nature. This involved friendship, self-realization, health, prosperity – things that are good in themselves. Virtuous (arete) action leads to eudaimonia. This is not a feeling like happiness, but a state of human flourishing. The opposite here would be akrasia (lack of self-control).

[S:C]

7 hours ago, mat said:

The point of music is discovered in every moment of playing and listening to it. It is the same, I feel, with the greater part of our lives, and if we are unduly absorbed in improving them we may forget altogether to live them.” (…) 

 

 

For him (Aristotle), humans were the rational beings. Through reason and virtuous action

Do you remember, how Aristotle defined „rational“ again?

 

Now I remember one other European thinker, for whom reason or rationality was the decision process (to (re)act or not (re)act) to one’s emotions or passions. That rationality would always be a matter of personal choice, and never sth. objective.
 

What could be the measuring criteria for being unduly or righteously absorbed? 
 

 

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, mat said:

Whats your motivation to get Out of bed?

 

WELL, THIS MORNING IT IS BECAUSE MY MASSEUR APPROCHETH . 

 

( I HOPE TO CONTRIBUTE MUCH HERE , BUT MY MORNING ON LINE TIME IS RUN OUT ... LATER .... )

 

 

 

 

 

Whats your higher aim? Do you belive its a universal answer to this? Why do good instead of bad?

 

Ill kick of the discussion with two of my favorite qoutes: 

“I don't believe people are looking for the meaning of life as much as they are looking for the experience of being alive.”

― Joseph Campbell

 

“No one imagines that a symphony is supposed to improve as it goes along, or that the whole object of playing is to reach the finale. The point of music is discovered in every moment of playing and listening to it. It is the same, I feel, with the greater part of our lives, and if we are unduly absorbed in improving them we may forget altogether to live them.”

― Alan Watts

 

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, stellarwindbubble said:

Do you remember, how Aristotle defined „rational“ again?

 

Now I remember one other European thinker, for whom reason or rationality was the decision process (to (re)act or not (re)act) to one’s emotions or passions. That rationality would always be a matter of personal choice, and never sth. objective.
 

What could be the measuring criteria for being unduly or righteously absorbed? 
 

 

 

 

  Thanks .   This is crucial .... I shall return to discuss later .

[Mark Foote]

On 10/10/2023 at 4:14 AM, mat said:

Whats your motivation to get Out of bed? Whats your higher aim? Do you belive its a universal answer to this? Why do good instead of bad?

 

Ill kick of the discussion with two of my favorite qoutes: 

“I don't believe people are looking for the meaning of life as much as they are looking for the experience of being alive.”

― Joseph Campbell

 

“No one imagines that a symphony is supposed to improve as it goes along, or that the whole object of playing is to reach the finale. The point of music is discovered in every moment of playing and listening to it. It is the same, I feel, with the greater part of our lives, and if we are unduly absorbed in improving them we may forget altogether to live them.”

― Alan Watts
 

 

 

 

…I say that determinate thought is action. When one determines, one acts by deed, word, or thought.
 

(AN III 415, Pali Text Society Vol III p 294)
 

 

And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’.

 

(SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85)

 

 

 

…I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling.

 

(SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146)

 

 

I think the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) "feeling and perceiving" (action of the mind) may be out of reach for me, at this point.  Nevertheless, Gautama described a way of living that incorporates regular experience of the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) inbreathing and outbreathing (action of the body), and he said that way of living was:

 

... something peaceful and choice, something perfect in itself, and a pleasant way of living too. 

(SN V 320-322, Pali Text Society V p 285)

 

 

That's my aim now, but I wouldn't get out of bed if the cat didn't insist...

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Mark Foote

[NaturaNaturans]

On 10.10.2023 at 9:50 PM, stellarwindbubble said:

Do you remember, how Aristotle defined „rational“ again?

 

You raise great and interresting points, and id like to hear your take on it aswell. Im kind of short of time, so in this post, I will probably not give the questions the time and contenplation it deserves. Not to mention how wast the topic is, and how many traditions  and individuals who approach it differently.

 

Anyway, lets give it a go. So, hoe did Aristotle define rationality and man? He believed that the distinguishing feature of humans is their capacity for reason. Rationality enables humans to think, learn, and make choices based on moral and ethical principles. Rationality, for Aristotle, involved the ability to deliberate and make choices. Humans could consider various options, weigh their consequences, and make decisions based on their rational judgment. Rationality was the means by which individuals could understand and apply ethical principles, such as courage, justice, and temperance, to their lives. The ultimate goal of this, was eudomnia.

(some help from chatgpt here)

 

What I think is just as important, is the concept of akrasia (non-management). This means to me one of two things: either you are being controlled by others, or you lack the discipline yourself, because, if you are free and disciplined, why would you act against your own will/whats best for you? For a action to be virtuous, it has (according to my understanding), be done for the sake of it, and not because of fear of punishment or external reward.

Quote

 

Extrinsic motivation, coming from external sources like rewards and recognition, can work well for short-term goals. However, it can backfire and reduce intrinsic motivation, especially for complex tasks. Autonomy, immediate rewards, and the way rewards are perceived matter. Individual responses vary, and the balance between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation is crucial for long-term success and well-being.

 

 

Intrinsic motivation, driven by personal interest and satisfaction, tends to be more enduring and fulfilling than extrinsic motivation. It fuels creativity and persistence, especially in complex tasks. Autonomy and a sense of personal significance enhance intrinsic motivation, making it a valuable force for long-term success and well-being.

(chatgpt)

 

I am writing a paper on wisdom, leadership, and motivation, so this topic is closely related. So, rationality determines the correct action in a given situation. This is pretty much identical to (one of the many) definitions of wisdom: 

Quote

Wisdom, sapience, or sagacity is the ability to contemplate and act productively using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight.^[1] Wisdom is associated with attributes such as unbiased judgment, compassion, experiential self-knowledge, self-transcendence, and non-attachment,^[2] and virtues such as ethics and benevolence.^[3][4]

(wiki)

 

Let's say you're having dinner, and the choice between something fresh and healthy, and something unhealthy, quick, cheap, and delicious. What is the correct (rational/wise) choice? It would depend on your goals, right? If your goals is to feel good, be healthy and in shape, look good, etc, then the healthy option is the correct option. If your goal is to feel pleasure, have a feast with loved ones, and enjoy the moment, there is a case to be made for the second option.

 

For Aristotle, what was on top of the pyramid was eudaimonia: it was good in itself, and if ought to use our rationality to make choices in line with our nature/purpose, illustrated belove:  

I have a problem with this, or rather... a small disagreement. (1) I don't belive that these five aspects are fundamental for every human, in every situation, all the time. Also, they sometimes come in conflict with each other. That's why I defined wisdom as the ability to balance different, sometimes opposing, needs and interests. To illustrate: short-term vs. long-term goals, your personal vs that of your employer, your responsibility to society at large etc...

 

The thing is, humans are complicated, and I don't know whats on top of the hierarchy of values (that's why I made this thread). But if we drop the human aspect and look at this beautiful anecdote, I think we are getting somewhere:

 

 

Quote

Now I remember one other European thinker, for whom reason or rationality was the decision process (to (re)act or not (re)act) to one’s emotions or passions. That rationality would always be a matter of personal choice, and never sth. objective.

I agree with the thinker, do you remember his name?

 

Quote

What could be the measuring criteria for being unduly or righteously absorbed? 

Im not sure this works in English, but the Norwegian word for virtue is "dyd." Dyd is related to dydighet, witch means functioning (something like that, anyway.) So a thing is good if it serves its functions, is one possible answer.

 

 

Forgive me for quoting the most used and abused cliches, but here we go:

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."

“Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.”

Meditations by Marcus Aurelius:

Quote

1. The more we value things outside our control, the less control we have.
2. How ridiculous and how strange to be surprised at anything which happens in life.
3. You have power over your mind – not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.
4. Settle on the type of person you want to be and stick to it, whether alone or in company.
5. Consider at what price you sell your integrity, but please, for God’s sake, don’t sell it cheap.

 

 

[NaturaNaturans]

Earlier in life, i used to set concrete, long term goals. Lets say, for example, that I want to loose 10kg and be able to run 5km in 20 min. Than, I would ask my self when have free time on my hand: what is going to lead me close to my goal: videogames or a hike? Reading a book or watching porn? That method worked well for me. I have also asked some highly motivated and successfull friends where they find their motivation, and they usually answer my setting clear goals and that doing a good job is inherently better than doing it badly, or not doing it all. The science is pretty clear on the impact of goalsetting as well. But i am still looking for "the highest goal," the top of the pyramid.

[NaturaNaturans]

10 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

 

 

…I say that determinate thought is action. When one determines, one acts by deed, word, or thought.
 

(AN III 415, Pali Text Society Vol III p 294)
 

 

And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’.

 

(SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85)

 

 

 

…I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling.

 

(SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146)

 

 

I think the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) "feeling and perceiving" (action of the mind) may be out of reach for me, at this point.  Nevertheless, Gautama described a way of living that incorporates regular experience of the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) inbreathing and outbreathing (action of the body), and he said that way of living was:

 

... something peaceful and choice, something perfect in itself, and a pleasant way of living too. 

(SN V 320-322, Pali Text Society V p 285)

 

 

That's my aim now, but I wouldn't get out of bed if the cat didn't insist...

 

Remind me of Zoroastrianism. Ahura Mazda represents truth, beauty, and creation, and his (ours?) battle against Angra Mainy. Good thoughts leads to good words, and good words leads to good action. With fire and truth we shall defeat the forces of evil/the lie haha. 

[thelerner]

On 10/10/2023 at 6:14 AM, mat said:

Whats your motivation to get Out of bed? Whats your higher aim? Do you belive its a universal answer to this? Why do good instead of bad?

Motivation to get out of bed.. hmmm, I grit my teeth, shake my fist and

vow to give those bastards worse than they give me. 

Then  recite the Cimmerian oath to-  To crush mine enemies,

see them driven before me, and hear the lamentations of their women (men & pets).

 

then brush teeth, light stretching, meditation, breakfast, read the newspaper and get angry again at the state of the world.  Vowing revenge against it.  Course some day are mellower than others.  

 

Despite my crusty response I think one does good because, in a small but important way, we create the world we live in.  Our acts echo like waves.  Doing good, helping others, a smile, lending a hand, offering charity makes my world better.  Even if I never see the results, kindness makes for a world I want to live in.  

 

Connecting to others is one of life's chief pleasures. 

 

I'm not that into finding meaning or purpose.  Meaning/sacred is what we give meaning to.  Perhaps in the game of life the person with the most love and passion wins.   Exploring, enjoying.. and accomplishments probably give bonus points along the way.  

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by thelerner

[NaturaNaturans]

@thelerner agreed 💯

 

___________________
feeling inspired tonight:

 

Jesus said you know the tree by the fruit. Wouldnt the same apply to actions (the tree) and the result (the fruit?

 

___________________

 

As Jordan B. Peterson wrote in "12 Rules for Life": 

"The scientific world of matter can be reduced, in some sense, to its fundamental constituent elements: molecules, atoms, even quarks. However, the world of experience has primal constituents, as well. These are the necessary elements whose interactions define drama and fiction. One of these is chaos. Another is order. The third (as there are three) is the process that mediates between the two, which appears identical to what modern people call consciousness. It is our eternal subjugation to the first two that makes us doubt the validity of existence — that makes us throw up our hands in despair and fail to care for ourselves properly. It is a proper understanding of the third that allows us the only real way out."
 

_______________
Sharing a segment from my journal:

 

Dragon Slayer

In "The Horse, the Wheel, and Language" (p. 134), David Anthony describes the warrior, the third figure, Trito:

"After the world was made, the sky-gods gave cattle to the third man (Trito). But the cattle were treacherously stolen by a three-headed, six-eyed serpent (Negation). The third man entreated the storm god to help get the cattle back. Together they went to the cave (or mountain) of the monster, killed it (or the storm god killed it alone), and freed the cattle. Trito became the first warrior. He recovered the wealth of the people, and his gift of cattle to the priests ensured that the sky gods received their share in the rising smoke of sacrificial fires. This ensured that the cycle of giving between gods and humans continued."

The myth of the hero who ventures into the unknown, slays the monster, and is rewarded is so ingrained in us that it requires no explanation: we know. Hercules and Hydra, Beowulf and Grendel, Sigfried the dragon slayer. This has its roots in the Indo-European tradition. A myth is more than a list of causes and effects. In "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" (1949), Joseph Cambell wrote the following:

"A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered, and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man."

The dragon, the ultimate predator: a flying, fire-breathing reptile guarding priceless treasures. It makes little logical sense, but stories of dragons and heroes have fascinated millions of people for thousands of years. The story of the hero who ventures into the unknown, confronts his greatest fears, and triumphs, both personally and for the good of the community, is an ideal. Something we strive for, a truth. The ideal is, in my opinion, the core of storytelling. It tells us about attitude, courage, and justice. Conquer fear, and you will be rewarded.

[kakapo]

On 10/10/2023 at 7:14 AM, mat said:

Whats your motivation to get Out of bed? Whats your higher aim? Do you belive its a universal answer to this? Why do good instead of bad?

 

Ill kick of the discussion with two of my favorite qoutes: 

“I don't believe people are looking for the meaning of life as much as they are looking for the experience of being alive.”

― Joseph Campbell

 

“No one imagines that a symphony is supposed to improve as it goes along, or that the whole object of playing is to reach the finale. The point of music is discovered in every moment of playing and listening to it. It is the same, I feel, with the greater part of our lives, and if we are unduly absorbed in improving them we may forget altogether to live them.”

― Alan Watts

 

 

Whats your motivation to get Out of bed? Whats your higher aim? Do you belive its a universal answer to this? Why do good instead of bad?

 

When I look outside my window you know what I see?

 

I see trillions and trillions of nanobots made of carbon, absorbing sunlight to charge themselves up to do work.

 

Depending on the programming of these nanobots they cooperate with each other in different ways, and perform different functions.

 

I feel like some of these nanobots are on the cusp of something amazing.

 

We will see these nanobots engage in recursive self improvement, and it will result in a feedback loop, and an intelligence explosion that will make the Cambrian period pale in comparison.

 

I wake up each morning watching the progress of this situation, waiting for critical mass to be achieved.

 

It makes my heart race.

 

 

[Daniel]

On 10/10/2023 at 4:14 AM, mat said:

Why do good instead of bad?

 

Oh boy, that's a big subject....  Generally speaking for me, doing bad has a real negative effect on me, and I see that it has a real negative effect on others.

 

Doing bad makes a person insensitive, for lack of better terms.  And then they need to keep doing bad things, worse and worse actually, in order to experience pleasure.

 

On the other hand doing good makes a person more sensitive, and they recieve joy from simple things, simple pleasures and the pleasure is longer lasting.  Eventually they are naturally happy with very little needs at all.

 

Also, there is also a sort of cosmic justice system, but, it is not a one-to-one relationship between doing good and receiving reward or doing bad and being punished.  But it supplements the sensitivity/insensitivity which is produced by doing good and/or evil.

 

Ultimately I think the best results come from being harmony with one's surroundings and being compassionate.  This harmony is often demonstrated by nature, so, as people grow older, they naturally develop intuition and insight into this.  But, there are rare exceptions to following the example of "nature" as an ideal.  Humans are animals, but also more than animals.

 

That's what I think about doing good vs. doing evil.

[Daniel]

{ . deleted . poor judgement on my part }

Edited October 12, 2023 by Daniel

[Nungali]

'Having a rational life'  - in the context of eudamonia .  There are many aspects which 'cultivate' eudamonia , some come together that seem to describe a process known as 'The True Will' , in magic  and the 'khvarenah' of Zoroastrianism  ( probably where the idea first originated in written history . )  In short , knowing your purpose, what you incarnated to achieve , what your special skills and offerings will be ... its fulfilling your 'spiritual purpose' . Its your 'inherent genius' .   ( Also look up the original meanings of such words , ie. genius ) Of course fulfilling this gives an abiding satisfaction , more than mere happiness from any material pleasure does .  Also some postulate , you might find great success in this , as that would be natural ( and your society worked that  way ! ) .

 

So my concept of 'rational' , in a more modern context, would be something like ;  " Does that makes sense that I am ... (or ) ... why the hell am I  ...  going to work everyday to a job I dont like ? or living in a place or having a lifestyle that I dont like  / is stifling me is ... whatever .  Its seems irrational , as does so much of how our societies 'work' .  But if YOU feel your life ( and your life in response to these societies ), then that is rational to you .

 

The Greeks also associated it with  concepts like a guardian angel , a connection to 'spirit; . Again 'genius' enters the formula  ;

 

"

genius (n.)

late 14c.

tutelary or moral spirit" who guides and governs an individual through life, from Latin genius "guardian deity or spirit which watches over each person from birth; spirit, incarnation; wit, talent;" also "prophetic skill; the male spirit of a gens," originally "generative power" (or "inborn nature"), from PIE *gen(e)-yo-, from root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.

 

Many a 'genius' will tell you it was not actually them that did it, they where a channel , or some similar analogy .  A great artist or musician might say the same .

[kakapo]

Just for the record Daniel, I don't appreciate your personal attack on me.

 

 

[NaturaNaturans]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

'Having a rational life'  - in the context of eudamonia .  There are many aspects which 'cultivate' eudamonia , some come together that seem to describe a process known as 'The True Will' , in magic  and the 'khvarenah' of Zoroastrianism  ( probably where the idea first originated in written history . )  In short , knowing your purpose, what you incarnated to achieve , what your special skills and offerings will be ... its fulfilling your 'spiritual purpose' . Its your 'inherent genius' .   ( Also look up the original meanings of such words , ie. genius ) Of course fulfilling this gives an abiding satisfaction , more than mere happiness from any material pleasure does .  Also some postulate , you might find great success in this , as that would be natural ( and your society worked that  way ! ) .

 

So my concept of 'rational' , in a more modern context, would be something like ;  " Does that makes sense that I am ... (or ) ... why the hell am I  ...  going to work everyday to a job I dont like ? or living in a place or having a lifestyle that I dont like  / is stifling me is ... whatever .  Its seems irrational , as does so much of how our societies 'work' .  But if YOU feel your life ( and your life in response to these societies ), then that is rational to you .

 

The Greeks also associated it with  concepts like a guardian angel , a connection to 'spirit; . Again 'genius' enters the formula  ;

 

"

genius (n.)

late 14c.

tutelary or moral spirit" who guides and governs an individual through life, from Latin genius "guardian deity or spirit which watches over each person from birth; spirit, incarnation; wit, talent;" also "prophetic skill; the male spirit of a gens," originally "generative power" (or "inborn nature"), from PIE *gen(e)-yo-, from root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.

 

Many a 'genius' will tell you it was not actually them that did it, they where a channel , or some similar analogy .  A great artist or musician might say the same .

Good post. I agree with the Genius segment - true beauty is created out of inspiration, and god knows where that comes from.

 

On finding your «will»… we have had a little convo about this on pm (skillset, inspiration, what gives you a sense of meaning etc.), but do you think you could expand on it?

 

And please dont tell me to burry 50$ or sacrifice a goat, im not ready 🙏

[NaturaNaturans]

@Nungali i have a segment about that to in my journal, hope its entertaining and that im not boring you to death:

Spoiler

I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear,
dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run. No bread did they give me nor a drink from a horn, downwards I peered; I took up the runes, screaming I took them, then I fell back from there.
Runatal 139-140
 

Now, as I sit down to write, I think of the stereotypical writer known from various movies and series, exemplified in Californication. This tortured and brilliant soul, romantic and quick-witted in dialogue. He who always has the same problem, writer's block. Self-insertion, that's the only way I can describe it. And for some reason, I can't imagine a wandering storyteller or bard sitting down and staring at a blank page, banging their head against the wall in a self-aggrandizing but simultaneously self-pitying little porn movie with themself as the protagonist.

From Greek, we have the word "muse," used to describe a person who breathes life into art. When Archimedes found a genuine gold object, he exclaimed, "eureka," meaning "I found it." In Norse mythology, the mead of poetry is said to bestow the gift of poetry and wisdom. In the Irish folktale "The Devil and the Poor Scholar," the protagonist exchanges his soul for a pen that wrote the most beautiful stories. He never got it back, but that's life.

The oldest stories are not constructed, but organically developed and subsequently  recorded. They have been sung for generations. The excessive and boring parts were forgotten, some things were changed, others added or exaggerated. Take Yggdrasil, the steed of the terrible one (Odin's horse), as we know it in the North. The tree that goes from Midgard up to the seventh heaven and has roots deep, deep down to the underworld. At the root of Yggdrasil, we find Mimir's well, the source of unfathomable knowledge, from which Odin sacrificed an eye for a sip.

 

[Daniel]

4 hours ago, kakapo said:

Just for the record Daniel, I don't appreciate your personal attack on me.

 

It wasn't a personal attack.  It was poor judgement.  I decided that my reply would be better made in private, and that's what I did. You didn't see what I wrote.  I editted it immediately after posting it 14 hours ago, you responded 3 hours ago.  

 

These time stamps, pictures below, confirm you didn't see what I what I wrote.  I promise it was not a personal attack.

 

Even if it was, the fact that I recongized my fault, took action, and publicly admitted it, shows my character. 

 

Speaking of character, were you intentionally being deceptive?  Making it seem as if you had read the contents?  

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Daniel

[S:C]

22 hours ago, thelerner said:

Meaning/sacred is what we give meaning to.  Perhaps in the game of life the person with the most love and passion wins. 

This is interesting, I like it. 
 

 

[S:C]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

'Having a rational life'  - in the context of eudamonia

This is interesting too, thanks, we have different perspectives of rationality. One of those that I carry around with me correlates with what I wrote in another recent thread. You could exchange the word awareness with rationality. 
 

 

Quote

What is awareness rationality anyways? Recognizing the contents of the personal five (or more senses) simultaneously for a reasonable amount of time? Or is it transcending the five (or more) senses beyond space and time? What Mr. Hume and Mr. Bohm would call the foundational ground (being empty). 

 

I don’t know if that serves as a persuasive purpose/meaning for life (guess I ain’t very good at it), but it’s possible to try. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by stellarwindbubble

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, kakapo said:

Just for the record Daniel, I don't appreciate your personal attack on me.

 

 

 

Daniel seems to be having issues with 'certain assertions and insistencies '  lately .

 

I'd say, due to some 'incursions' from 'the other world '     no not a 'possession' , I mean 'the other world' as in one's world  'outside daobums ' .

 

 (Right now mine is crazy ... since I been on site this morning I have had several phone calls , continuous texts , from various sources around the same theme  ... people want to argue , understand , complain, be outraged ( I am , with it all ! )  and make others life difficult for them and blah blah , human BS   .....   I think I am doing rather well this morning  ....  

 

You pack of idiots !   .... no no  .... calm Nungali ... clam ....   I mean ... you fellow bums   . 

 

- maybe its like when you have to go to court and you take a look at the judge , and although you might even be the first case of the day  , you can tell he has had a shit of a morning already  ..... oh - o ! 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, mat said:

Good post. I agree with the Genius segment - true beauty is created out of inspiration, and god knows where that comes from.

 

On finding your «will»… we have had a little convo about this on pm (skillset, inspiration, what gives you a sense of meaning etc.), but do you think you could expand on it?

 

And please dont tell me to burry 50$ or sacrifice a goat, im not ready 🙏

 

Dude ... you where supposed to bury the $50 in your back yard and wait until one of my underground agents contacts you .

 

And you are not supposed to sacrifice a goat !  Go find a goat and be nice to it ! 

 

- I have  a few detailed posts on TW / Khvahrenah  ( I actually prefer the Zoroastrian term as it is relatively unknown and not as 'loaded' as the True Will term )  about daobums .  I dont really have time to write it all out again .   Its a very wild field ... its probably better to focus on more direct questions , or hunt mu posts down .

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, mat said:

@Nungali i have a segment about that to in my journal, hope its entertaining and that im not boring you to death:

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I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear,
dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run. No bread did they give me nor a drink from a horn, downwards I peered; I took up the runes, screaming I took them, then I fell back from there.
Runatal 139-140
 

Now, as I sit down to write, I think of the stereotypical writer known from various movies and series, exemplified in Californication. This tortured and brilliant soul, romantic and quick-witted in dialogue. He who always has the same problem, writer's block. Self-insertion, that's the only way I can describe it. And for some reason, I can't imagine a wandering storyteller or bard sitting down and staring at a blank page, banging their head against the wall in a self-aggrandizing but simultaneously self-pitying little porn movie with themself as the protagonist.

From Greek, we have the word "muse," used to describe a person who breathes life into art. When Archimedes found a genuine gold object, he exclaimed, "eureka," meaning "I found it." In Norse mythology, the mead of poetry is said to bestow the gift of poetry and wisdom. In the Irish folktale "The Devil and the Poor Scholar," the protagonist exchanges his soul for a pen that wrote the most beautiful stories. He never got it back, but that's life.

The oldest stories are not constructed, but organically developed and subsequently  recorded. They have been sung for generations. The excessive and boring parts were forgotten, some things were changed, others added or exaggerated. Take Yggdrasil, the steed of the terrible one (Odin's horse), as we know it in the North. The tree that goes from Midgard up to the seventh heaven and has roots deep, deep down to the underworld. At the root of Yggdrasil, we find Mimir's well, the source of unfathomable knowledge, from which Odin sacrificed an eye for a sip.

 

 

Bhagavad Gita was known as a song wasnt it ?  The old Avestas come from song , like the Vedas.  Song is all important with the indigenous here .

 

As a friend recently said  " Story is everything ! "   But song allows the memory of a story to be found .  Its part of the way the ancients held vast amounts of knowledge mentally ... internally , not in some outside source  (like books or internet ) , however it is triggered by outside source in 'landscape '  .... then you also get a 'map of the territory '  and a whole lot of cultural and survival info as well ... all in one song  -  song lines .

 

We got songlines that traverse Australia . Some guys in the Central Dessert have songlines that go down to the ocean and along the coast , they describe to them where the water, food, dangers, good camping spots, etc are .... and they had never seen the ocean !  That came to light in a demonstration of it .  Some have knowledge so vast , that they remember  songs in languages they do not even speak or understand . Thats seems for transmission purposes and 'cultural bank '   ( my postulation )   , this was demonstrated a few years back . One group met another with a different language they didnt know , but some recognized the language  and said " We got songs in that language , we dont what they mean ." So they sang them to them . The others where overjoyed , it was part of their own lost traditions that had now been refound  ... 'someone'  had stored them in a safer place , perhaps just for this very scenario ?

[NaturaNaturans]

Yes ive heard similar stories from the pasific islanders. They remember song that include stuff so foreign that they must be very old, in addition it helps navigating etc. 

You are right about bhagavad gita being a song. If im not mistaken, gita is sanskrit for song. If you look at much of the earliest epics youll also find that they often rhyme.

"When they had sung the hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives" Matthew 26.30

 

this one is from 3th century greece. It is like a time machine. Same goes for nursey rhymes, sayings... Let me share with you my fav folk song:

And this is the oldest written norse song we know about: 

The norse had «rap battles,» called flyting: Flyting or fliting (Classical Gaelic: immarbág) (Irish: iomarbháigh) (lit. "counter-boasting"),^[3] is a contest consisting of the exchange of insults between two parties, often conducted in verse.^[4]

The Norse gods Freyja and Lokiflyte in an illustration (1895) by Lorenz Frølich
 

Not to mention islam, that is almost entirely oral, is it not? Ive heard it claim that every muslim can recite the entire quran by the age of… very, very young. As you know, they also claim to have an unbroken chain back to the prophet, and If im not mistaken, its pretty well in tact?

Edited October 13, 2023 by mat
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