Stranger things

[steve]

9 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

And when does silence on matters of violence act to contribute to violence?

 

 

And when does violence cause silence?

 

Another head hangs lowly
Child is slowly taken
And the violence caused such silence
Who are we mistaken

 

 

 

 

[old3bob]

 

"You know the prayer 'Holy God, Holy the Firm, Holy the Immortal'? This prayer comes from ancient knowledge. Holy God means the Absolute or All. Holy the Firm also means the Absolute or Nothing. Holy the Immortal signifies that which is between them, that is, the six notes of the ray of creation, with organic life. All three taken together make one. This is the coexistent and indivisible Trinity. "We must now dwell on the idea of the 'additional shocks' which make it possible..." 

 

My take is that the silence of the, "Holy the Firm" is an absolute crushing to nothingness, while the silence of "Holy God" is an absolute pure source....  From the book, "In Search of the Miraculous". 

 

[Haribol]

On 5.3.2026 at 12:50 AM, steve said:

addiction treatment programs are completely inaccessible for most who need them in the US

Also, how effective are rehabs? In Norway, not effective at all. I assume this is the case in the US as well? Sorry for going slightly off topic, but this is food for thought if true:

 

 

[zerostao]

Strange never goes away, I don't think.

Back in the 1960s, Dr. Strangelove, songs Strange Brew, People Are Strange. 

Nowadays, some feel like strangers in their homeland. Probably nothing strange at all, said the stranger, who rode off into the sunset.

[Haribol]

1 minute ago, zerostao said:

Nowadays, some feel like strangers in their homeland. Probably nothing strange at all, said the stranger, who rode off into the sunset.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_alienation
 

Seems to me that something happened around the 1800s and has only gotten worse since then. If I am no mistaken, the concept of existential angst was pretty much non existent until that time. At least we don’t have writings to attest to it. If you still considering learning the language of the north, here is a poem for you:

Jeg ser (1893, Obstfelder)

 

Spoiler

Jeg ser

 

Jeg ser på den hvite himmel,
jeg ser på de gråblå skyer,
jeg ser på den blodige sol.

 

Dette er altså verden.
Dette er altså klodenes hjem.

 

En regndråpe!

 

Jeg ser på de høye huse,
jeg ser på de tusende vinduer,
jeg ser på det fjerne kirketårn.

 

Dette er altså jorden.
Dette er altså menneskenes hjem.

 

De gråblå skyer samler seg. Solen ble borte.

 

Jeg ser på de velkledte herrer,
jeg ser på de smilende damer,
jeg ser på de lutende hester.

 

Hvor de gråblå skyer blir tunge.

 

Jeg ser, jeg ser…
Jeg er visst kommet på en feil klode!
Her er så underlig…

Skrik, Munch, 1893 (same year)

[Taomeow]

33 minutes ago, zerostao said:

Strange never goes away, I don't think.

Back in the 1960s, Dr. Strangelove, songs Strange Brew, People Are Strange. 

Nowadays, some feel like strangers in their homeland. Probably nothing strange at all, said the stranger, who rode off into the sunset.

 

And don't forget Deep Purple's Strangeways.  

 

Early in the morning in the early 1990s I had it in my ears, coming from my Sony Walkman player, en route to my job in New York. 

 

The stranger who rode off into the sunset on the New Jersey Transit bus is that version of me.   

 

 

[steve]

4 hours ago, Haribol said:

Also, how effective are rehabs? In Norway, not effective at all. I assume this is the case in the US as well?

 

I can’t quote any data but there are a wide range of programs. I suspect the efficacy is related to the price here but that’s not necessarily the case Recidivism with addiction is certainly very high. 

 

 

[Taomeow]

On 3/4/2026 at 3:50 PM, steve said:

 addiction treatment programs are completely inaccessible for most who need them in the US

 

Had a conversation with someone's lawyer once, about a person who was to stand trial where they would decide whether to send that person to jail or, alternatively, to a mental health facility.  A drug addiction wasn't involved, it was textbook schizophrenia, and the person wound up serving time.  The lawyer told me that it was a pity drugs weren't involved, because otherwise a treatment program would be available instead of jail, but if someone's just crazy without being an addict, they're shit out of luck.

 

Doesn't mean a treatment program would be efficient for drugs, but just imagine the irony...  "it's a pity they're not on drugs, that would at least give them a chance someone would try to do something to help."  

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

Had a conversation with someone's lawyer once, about a person who was to stand trial where they would decide whether to send that person to jail or, alternatively, to a mental health facility.  A drug addiction wasn't involved, it was textbook schizophrenia, and the person wound up serving time.  The lawyer told me that it was a pity drugs weren't involved, because otherwise a treatment program would be available instead of jail, but if someone's just crazy without being an addict, they're shit out of luck.

 

Doesn't mean a treatment program would be efficient for drugs, but just imagine the irony...  "it's a pity they're not on drugs, that would at least give them a chance someone would try to do something to help."  

 

My partner Jose is a sweet and gentle person and also someone who suffers with psychosis.  Several years back he was considering carrying a knife around with him because he was convinced that strangers wanted to hurt him.  I told him: no knives.  It´s easy to imagine him attacking someone if he was convinced he was about to be kidnapped or killed -- in his mind it would of been self-defence.  People like Jose need compassion and treatment, not punishment.  

Edited yesterday at 06:34 PM by liminal_luke

[steve]

Another irony with these situations is that psychosis is arguably more responsive to treatment than addiction.

[Haribol]

I belive that the issue with most sorts of treatments, is that they attempt to remove the symptoms rather than the underlying cause or disease. No wonder people go crazy as the world works today. There needs to be taken a more holistic approach, I belive. 
 

Quote

Alexander’s experiments, in the 1970s, have come to be called the “Rat Park.1 Researchers had already proved that when rats were placed in a cage, all alone, with no other community of rats, and offered two water bottles-one filled with water and the other with heroin or cocaine-the rats would repetitively drink from the drug-laced bottles until they all overdosed and died. Like pigeons pressing a pleasure lever, they were relentless, until their bodies and brains were overcome, and they died.

But Alexander wondered: is this about the drug or might it be related to the setting they were in? To test his hypothesis, he put rats in “rat parks,” where they were among others and free to roam and play, to socialize and to have sex. And they were given the same access to the same two types of drug laced bottles. When inhabiting a “rat park,” they remarkably preferred the plain water. Even when they did imbibe from the drug-filled bottle, they did so intermittently, not obsessively, and never overdosed. A social community beat the power of drugs.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-does-rat-park-teach-us-about-addiction
 

I like to listen to Gabor Mate quite a lot. Strikes me as incredibly warm, wise and thoughtful. He specializes in addiction, I belive. There are plenty of talks off him out there, and if you give him five minutes, I think a lot of you will like him:

 

[Cobie]

 

16 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

My partner Jose is a sweet and gentle person ...

 

I did get that impression already from the little drawing of the (banner} horse. 

 

 

[Mark Foote]

22 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

My partner Jose is a sweet and gentle person and also someone who suffers with psychosis.  Several years back he was considering carrying a knife around with him because he was convinced that strangers wanted to hurt him.  I told him: no knives.  It´s easy to imagine him attacking someone if he was convinced he was about to be kidnapped or killed -- in his mind it would of been self-defence.  People like Jose need compassion and treatment, not punishment.  
 

There's also this:

 

Quote

 

Delusional disorder is a type of psychotic disorder. Its main symptom is the presence of one or more delusions.

 

... People with delusional disorder often experience non-bizarre delusions. Non-bizarre delusions involve situations that could possibly occur in real life, such as being followed, deceived or loved from a distance. 

 

... There are different types of delusional disorder... Persecutory: People with this type of delusional disorder believe someone or something is mistreating, spying on or attempting to harm them (or someone close to them). People with this type of delusional disorder may make repeated complaints to legal authorities.

 

... Delusional disorder is different from schizophrenia because there aren’t any other psychotic symptoms other than delusions.

In addition, in contrast to schizophrenia, delusional disorder is relatively rare, and daily functioning isn’t as impaired as it is in schizophrenia.

 

... Delusional disorder most often occurs in middle to late life, with the average age of onset being 40 years.

The persecutory and jealous types of delusional disorder are more common in men. ...Approximately 0.05% to 0.1% of the adult population has delusional disorder.

 

... Delusional disorder doesn’t usually significantly affect a person’s daily functioning, but the severity of the delusion may gradually get worse. Most people with delusional disorder can remain employed as long as their work doesn’t involve things related to their delusions.

Cleveland Clinic, Delusional Disorder
 

 

 

 

And this:

 

 

Quote

 

Alcoholic hallucinosis is a neuropsychiatric disorder characterized primarily by auditory hallucinations, typically experienced as third-person voices that are derogatory or commanding in nature. These hallucinations occur in the context of chronic alcohol use or during withdrawal and are accompanied by paranoid symptoms and intense fear, all presenting in clear consciousness without clouding of sensorium. ...The hallucinations may manifest as fragments of conversation or music and can be associated with secondary delusions or perseveration; visual hallucinations, although less common, may also occur.

 

ScienceDirect, Alcoholic Hallucinosis
 

 

 

 

 

I guess the difference is bizarre vs non-bizarre hallucinations. From the Cleveland Clinic article:

 

Non-bizarre delusions are different from bizarre delusions, which include beliefs that are impossible in our reality, such as believing someone has removed an organ from your body without any physical evidence of the procedure.

 

 

I sympathize.