Intrusive Thoughts vs Qigong

[Iri]

Polls suggest that more than 90% of people experience intrusive thoughts, while only a tiny % applies for help and thus are officially ‘diagnosed’. So I think it’s useful to raise the topic that we’re so shy to discuss.

 

In fact, intrusive thoughts were one of the reasons I stopped my Buddhist practices and then stayed away from anything esoteric at all for many years. Great deal of them are of ‘Blasphemy’ type, meaning they target directly what I practice and believe in. Probably the term is a bit confusing because this classification was done by a Christian-culture psychologist, but I hope you see the point if we substitute an Abrahamic God with the Universe and energy. Now when I’m starting with Qigong, I tend to believe that the Universe is utterly intelligent to recognise that those thoughts are not coming by my will, so it’s not really ‘me’ saying them, and thus they can’t hurt my practice. Do you agree? Or should I beware?

 

Also, I did a simple yoga for a few weeks to prepare my mind for qigong, and after a few days I noticed that intrusive thoughts - including those during the practice- gradually disappear. Then I had to stop yoga to learn qigong more quickly (it still takes most of my time). When I started making my first steps in qigong, I noticed again the stuff that I don’t want to come to my head returns. Should I expect improvement soon, due to my practice? Or should I better add yoga, as I already know it helps quickly? For the context, I have a few days experience of SFQ, and able to concentrate most of the time - probably my main worry is in question 1 (that it can harm me or make my practice not effective).

 

What do you think?
 

[Lairg]

The intrusive thoughts come from somewhere.   If the thoughts are in a regular pattern/direction (e.g. like/dislike some entity/practice/belief) then it is likely there is an intelligence directing them. 

 

Why would that intelligence target that human?  What is the objective.

 

How many other ways does that intelligence target the human?

 

I once passed by a wedding group belonging to a church I thought dubious.

 

All of the adult males had a dark entity sitting on their heads with lines into their brains.

 

The women and children generally had an entity feeding off the front of their hearts 

 

 

[Indiken]

I guess,

intrusive thoughts are, so called, "blockages of energy" or "movement of energy", they show disharmony in self (body, mind ?...). They show for a person what issues he have and where attention/intention should be directed. Depending on the response by person to these thoughts, the disharmony is affected.

[Nahfets]

The stretching releases tension in the muscles which can be good if you tense up and unconsciously store turbid qi in certain body parts. This is very normal and exercise and stretching helps release this. You could also do a channel dretching with your hands like shown in this video 2 minutes into it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QYngRrbsKo&t=1380s 

Sometimes intruding entities or the likes feed of off negative energy such as projection, anger, blame and anxiety and will often go to lenghts to ensure that their target don't evolve past these emotions that act as a doorway for them to drain energy or use part of you for their benefits. So staying calm, observing your thoughts and backtracking what thought lead to this can be a great help. 

Using a broad strategy often tends to help the most, i.e. using diet, exercise, stretching, meditation, supplements, visualization and prayer as this will stack up and prevent you from slipping into these lower vibrational thoughts. 

Some supplements that would help could be: Bacopa, polygala, rhodiola, ashwagandha. Use extracts not raw powder and give it a Week to kick in. 

[Miffymog]

Hi there, I've just re-read your original post and I realised that I've written a response that doesn't really answer you question. But having written it, I've decided I'll still post it rather than delete it - sorry about that

 

---

 

I’ve done a CBT course of intrusive thoughts as I have suffered from them myself, here are some of the main things I leant.

 

The first step is it’s best not to avoid situations where they might arise, as that can reinforce the sense that the thoughts are more than just thoughts.

 

Then, once you have identified the situation where they may occur, try to identify your ‘MUST NOT …’ thought. What is it exactly you must not do or think. As soon as you see something as a must not, that is a good way to get the mind to entertain the idea, so what are your must nots?

 

Also, while in the situation, see if you can identify any safety behaviours you may be using to reduce the intrusive thoughts. Unfortunately, these also have the tendency to just re-enforce the intrusive thought and you pretty much have to let go of these behaviours too.

 

You then have to face that situation where you have the intrusive thoughts and ‘let the worst thoughts possible’ happen. This is a challenge and involves no small amount of ego death. The fact is, you may not have a pleasant experience allowing your thoughts and imagination to ‘go wild’. However, after the event, you will always realise that the consequences of not fighting the mind are less than the perceived fear you originally had.

 

If you have truly managed to let go of yourself in the moment of confrontation, then the next time you face it, it will be easier. The anxieties and intrusive thoughts will not have gone, but they will have diminished.

 

What will then happen is in time the ability to relax into the moment at the onset of the anxiety becomes easier, and you can slowly become more rounded again.

 

This is all much easier to do with a therapist, but I did find this book particularly good

 

Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts: A CBT-Based Guide to Getting Over Frightening, Obsessive, or Disturbing Thoughts

by Sally M. Winston PsyD (Author), Martin N. Seif PhD (Author)

Edited May 11, 2023 by Miffymog
change 'label' to 'see' in 4th paragraph

[johndoe2012]

In addition to the above by Miffymog I suggest that you also start practicing active compassion for yourself and all beings. 

 

Simply wish them the best and for them to be happy. 

 

This can also be directed at any 'bad' entities that might be connected. 

 

Be fiercefully non-violent because it can take a lot of effort to come through your 'dark'/unconscious side of yourself. 

 

[snowymountains]

Look up "automatic negative thoughts", all people have them, they're just usually not aware of them. 

They're not in the unconscious, just below awareness, it's the sort of stuff that may surface after concentration or meditation practices

 

There's also the non-negative variant of course.

 

In any case, there's no need for metaphysics to be involved for something like this to occur and it's not uncommon at all.

Edited Tuesday at 09:49 PM by snowymountains

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

Look up "negative automatic thoughts", all people have them, they're just usually not aware of them. 

They're not in the unconscious, just below awareness, it's the sort of stuff that may surface after concentration or meditation practices

 

There's also the non-negative variant of course.

 

In any case, there's no need for metaphysics to be involved for something like this to occur and it's not uncommon at all.

 

That's just the way the brain works. 

[snowymountains]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

That's just the way the brain works. 

 

Tres banal compared to interdimensional intrusive parasites 😁

[Maddie]

Just now, snowymountains said:

 

Tres banal compared to interdimensional intrusive parasites 😁

 

Usually the mundane answer is the answer lol. 

 

Not as entertaining though. 

[snowymountains]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

Usually the mundane answer is the answer lol. 

 

Not as entertaining though. 

 

no ! "Release the Kraken" 😁

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

no ! "Release the Kraken" 😁

 

Granted some thoughts can be unwanted, but I think they are usually only labeled "intrusive" when we judge them as intrusive, when we have expectations that they shouldn't be there, that its somehow bad to have random thoughts. 

[snowymountains]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

Granted some thoughts can be unwanted, but I think they are usually only labeled "intrusive" when we judge them as intrusive, when we have expectations that they shouldn't be there, that its somehow bad to have random thoughts. 

 

"this can't be me" ! 😁

 

On 5/11/2023 at 4:13 PM, Miffymog said:

Hi there, I've just re-read your original post and I realised that I've written a response that doesn't really answer you question. But having written it, I've decided I'll still post it rather than delete it - sorry about that

 

---

 

I’ve done a CBT course of intrusive thoughts as I have suffered from them myself, here are some of the main things I leant.

 

The first step is it’s best not to avoid situations where they might arise, as that can reinforce the sense that the thoughts are more than just thoughts.

 

Then, once you have identified the situation where they may occur, try to identify your ‘MUST NOT …’ thought. What is it exactly you must not do or think. As soon as you see something as a must not, that is a good way to get the mind to entertain the idea, so what are your must nots?

 

Also, while in the situation, see if you can identify any safety behaviours you may be using to reduce the intrusive thoughts. Unfortunately, these also have the tendency to just re-enforce the intrusive thought and you pretty much have to let go of these behaviours too.

 

You then have to face that situation where you have the intrusive thoughts and ‘let the worst thoughts possible’ happen. This is a challenge and involves no small amount of ego death. The fact is, you may not have a pleasant experience allowing your thoughts and imagination to ‘go wild’. However, after the event, you will always realise that the consequences of not fighting the mind are less than the perceived fear you originally had.

 

If you have truly managed to let go of yourself in the moment of confrontation, then the next time you face it, it will be easier. The anxieties and intrusive thoughts will not have gone, but they will have diminished.

 

What will then happen is in time the ability to relax into the moment at the onset of the anxiety becomes easier, and you can slowly become more rounded again.

 

This is all much easier to do with a therapist, but I did find this book particularly good

 

Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts: A CBT-Based Guide to Getting Over Frightening, Obsessive, or Disturbing Thoughts

by Sally M. Winston PsyD (Author), Martin N. Seif PhD (Author)

 

I just saw that above someone mentioned CBT.  CBT does work with ANTs ( and goes deeper than that ), it's actually how/why it's precursor, CT, was invented by Beck.

However, CBT does not seek to eradicate all ANTs, because that's impossible.

Instead CBT works on those ANTs which have negative impact. If that is the case, the better option is a CBT therapist, not a book.

[snowymountains]

17 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Granted some thoughts can be unwanted, but I think they are usually only labeled "intrusive" when we judge them as intrusive, when we have expectations that they shouldn't be there, that its somehow bad to have random thoughts. 

 

Distancing from the thoughts is also a thing, it's one approach, not the "classic" CBT approach though.

[Maddie]

17 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

Distancing from the thoughts is also a thing, it's one approach, not the "classic" CBT approach though.

 

My main practice is "mindfulness of mind" from the four foundations of mindfulness. I observe what is in there. 

[snowymountains]

7 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

My main practice is "mindfulness of mind" from the four foundations of mindfulness. I observe what is in there. 

 

It's a very good practice, some 3rd wave therapies like ACT have adopted this one and use it therapeutically, aiming to build the skill of distancing to be able to get some distance from ANTs ( these in specific are the thoughts one wants some distance from, not all thoughts, not even all negative thoughts, just ANTs ).

CBT instead does something called "cognitive restructuring" to ANTs, which has its roots in stoic philosophy.

Both methods are very good 👍