Recommendable and not legit systems

[freeform]

(Just to add that - I’m just messing around - I mean no disrespect whatsoever.
 

I genuinely wish that someone like you, TT, with so much dedication to the arts could get a glimpse of what’s really possible… what’s being accomplished in living traditions right now.

 

I realise that it might seem like I’ve been fooled or am delusional or something - but to me, from my POV, that’s just your justifications for keeping your status quo intact.

 

So my teasing is only directed at those parts of you that seem stuck to me - that’s all.

I wouldn’t go through the effort of engaging and re-engaging with you if there wasn’t an undercurrent of respect.)

 

[Master Logray]

Chi is not unlike ghosts or UFOs.  The phenomenon is real, but no one can prove its existence.

 

Faqi is actually small stuff in this unknown universe of Chi.  The more potent or famous one is 凌空勁,  translate as Volley? Strength.  It means you can use the Chi to attack someone without physical contact.  It is mostly used in TaiChi or martial arts areas.   Only the highest grade teacher can master it.  But sometimes people stumble on developing it for a short time.  Videos showing it are, in my opinion, fakes.   But this phenomenon has existed for centuries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

(Just to add that - I’m just messing around - I mean no disrespect whatsoever.
 

I genuinely wish that someone like you, TT, with so much dedication to the arts could get a glimpse of what’s really possible… what’s being accomplished in living traditions right now.

 

I realise that it might seem like I’ve been fooled or am delusional or something - but to me, from my POV, that’s just your justifications for keeping your status quo intact.

 

So my teasing is only directed at those parts of you that seem stuck to me - that’s all.

I wouldn’t go through the effort of engaging and re-engaging with you if there wasn’t an undercurrent of respect.)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faqi

[wandelaar]

The link doesn't work: Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Just now, wandelaar said:

The link doesn't work: Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.

 

If it's not on Wikipedia, does it really exist?

[wandelaar]

Wikipedia articles are the work of volunteers. If there are not enough volunteers who consider faqi important enough for an article then there won't be an article. Nothing more can be concluded. But to be sure I just now checked whether there is an article about me on the Wikipedia, and there isn't. So this proves to my own satisfaction that indeed not everything that exists can be found on the Wikipedia. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by wandelaar

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

I mean no disrespect whatsoever.

i know man i know

 

1 hour ago, freeform said:

could get a glimpse of what’s really possible

the moment i get a glimpse, i will admit i was wrong. no problem at all.  And for the time being we just engage in a philosophical dialog because it amuses us, nothing more.

 

Now where were we. Light  field or a magnetic field or nuclear radiation etc do seem to have an immaterial quality but they are really quite material. Because the definition of matter is something that can be eventually perceived by our senses by  everybody (maybe through a detecting device).   All of these  aforementioned phenomena can be perceived by everybody.

 

But the external  qi (qi radiated out of the body) cannot be perceived by everybody. Hence it is immaterial  by definition.  That is why an analogy between something material and something immaterial are not valid. Its not even apples and oranges because those two can be compared, they both  being fruit. But matter and not-matter cannot be.

Quote

@Shadow_selfInteresting, what do you think qi is?

Qi is  immaterial bio-energetic information.

 

[btw there is a very educational chinese article on faqi in wiki except it is not called faqi because it is a new made-up term. Historically it was called buqi

https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-hans/布气

http://www.a-hospital.com/w/布气

Faqi normally means to get angry

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/發氣

 it got its qigong meaning in modern time You guys may wanna think why a new name;)]

 

[wandelaar]

3 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Now where were we. Light  field or a magnetic field or nuclear radiation etc do seem to have an immaterial quality but they are really quite material. Because the definition of matter is something that can be eventually perceived by our senses by  everybody (maybe through a detecting device).   All of these  aforementioned phenomena can be perceived by everybody.

 

But the external  qi (qi radiated out of the body) cannot be perceived by everybody. Hence it is immaterial  by definition.  That is why an analogy between something material and something immaterial are not valid. Its not even apples and oranges because those two can be compared, they both  being fruit. But matter and not-matter cannot be.

Qi is  immaterial bio-energetic information.

 

Well this is changing the argument, but lets call something TT-material if and only if it can be eventually perceived by our senses by everybody (maybe through a detecting device) to distinguish it from the normal meaning of material and see what we get. Now do you claim that things and processes that are not TT-material cannot possibly influence TT-material things and processes? And what do you mean by eventually? Does that include unforeseen future developments in experimental science?

[Shadow_self]

8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Now where were we. Light  field or a magnetic field or nuclear radiation etc do seem to have an immaterial quality but they are really quite material. Because the definition of matter is something that can be eventually perceived by our senses by  everybody (maybe through a detecting device).   All of these  aforementioned phenomena can be perceived by everybody.

 

And is this phenomena cause or effect?

 

8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

But the external  qi (qi radiated out of the body) cannot be perceived by everybody. Hence it is immaterial  by definition.  That is why an analogy between something material and something immaterial are not valid. Its not even apples and oranges because those two can be compared, they both  being fruit. But matter and not-matter cannot be.

 

Hold that thought...

 

Are you sure not everyone can see it?

 

Id hazard a guess everyone has the potential to, but few ever reach it.

 

If you've ever seen such phenomena, like an "aura", you'd probably very quickly come to realize it is more akin to the former description of "material" that you put above.

 

 

Humans do in fact glow, its just not within the spectrum of the human eye under normal conditions for the average person

 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0006256

 

Quote

The human body literally glimmers. The intensity of the light emitted by the body is 1000 times lower than the sensitivity of our naked eyes. Ultraweak photon emission is known as the energy released as light through the changes in energy metabolism. We successfully imaged the diurnal change of this ultraweak photon emission with an improved highly sensitive imaging system using cryogenic charge-coupled device (CCD) camera. We found that the human body directly and rhythmically emits light. The diurnal changes in photon emission might be linked to changes in energy metabolism.

 

Quote

 

 

Ive personally seen this and more.

 

I'm also fairly well trained in psychophysics and neuroimaging.

 

I can assure you this much. It is no hallucination if you start to perceive this things

 

8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Qi is  immaterial bio-energetic information.

 

Bio energetic only?

[Barnaby]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

So this proves to my own satisfaction that indeed not everything that exists can be found on the Wikipedia. 

Or you just don’t exist 

[wandelaar]

2 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

Or you just don’t exist 

 

In the absolute sense I'm rather a process instead of a thing, so I could be said not the exist. Nevertheless I even seem to be TT-material as my posts are clearly visible to everyone taking the trouble to look at them on The Dao Bums. ;-)

[Shadow_self]

@Taoist Texts Here you go friend, pay close attention for the light show

 

 

 

Disclaimer: For all those who feel the need for a certain level of nonqualified authorities to verify any claims, I believe that a team of medical doctors and scientists were present during this demonstration and did their best to rule out fraud. They have provided video evidence for you, free from  their own cognitive distortions, selective memory and biases, and sincerely hope it helps

 

Unfortunately, they were obliterated soon after this as they asked for a repeat demo, so they didnt make it. Despite that.  these remnants of the footage still exists

 

Seek out this man at your own risk...

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

Now do you claim that things and processes that are not TT-material cannot possibly influence TT-material things and processes?

I do. E.g. :  a cubic meter of  vacuum is immaterial, a brick is material. Put them together - nothing happens to the both.

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

And what do you mean by eventually?

E.g, we need a  microscope to see a bacterium  but eventually we will see it by our eye and say that the bacterium is material.

 

58 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

And is this phenomena cause or effect?

they and  us are all the effects of the Big Bang. It started the samsara where any thing is  an effect of a preceding cause and causes an effect in its turn.

58 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Humans do in fact glow,

i know but thats not qi. it is caused by qi because a human body is living due to qi but the glow is not qi.

58 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Id hazard a guess everyone has the potential to, but few ever reach it.

that might be true but the current reality is that not everybody does. 

58 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Bio energetic only?

of course. information is something that   is possessed only  by living beings in their  internal qi-fields. A brick does not have any qi hence no info in him.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Taoist Texts

[Wu Ming Jen]

There are many different kinds of jing including leg and foot jing.  They can be distinguished into sensing jing and manifested jing. Sensing jing includes passive sensing jing, which are the ability to sense the opponent's power, and active sensing jing, which are the ability to move qi into or out of another person's body.

 

Manifested jing visibly exhibit the use of force and can also be divided into yang jing or offensive jing (gong jing, 攻勁), yin jing or defensive jing (shou jing, 守勁), and neutral jing or neither yin nor yang jing (fei gong fei shou jing, 非攻非守勁).

Because offensive jing usually emit force onto the opponent's body, they are also called emitting jing (fa jing, 發勁). Defensive jing usually neutralize the opponent's power and thus are generally called neutralizing jing (hua jing, 化勁). 

 

Disturbing or enhancing someone's bio electrical field is validated in my training (Wudang Gung Fu)

 

Sending an actual electrical shock into someone would be a useless skill. IMO

 

 

[Shadow_self]

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

they and  us are all the effects of the Big Bang. It started the samsara where any thing is  an effect of a preceding cause and

causes an effect in its turn.

 

This would be interesting to tease out , but would drag the thread too far off topic. Interesting comment though

 

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

i know but thats not qi. it is caused by qi because a human body is living due to qi but the glow is not qi.

 

I agree, that light they are talking about is something else.

 

I was more making the point that imperceptible things can still have a material substance, and rather, it is the limitations of the sense faculties, not the quality of the "thing" that is the issue

 

However Im not sure that I agree with the idea that qi is devoid of substance or imperceptible.

 

But i do understand where you are coming from regards the "effect" line of thought.

 

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

that might be true but the current reality is that not everybody does. 

 

Agreed

 

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

of course. information is something that   is possessed only  by living beings in their  internal qi-fields. A brick does not have any qi hence no info in him.

 

Are you saying then, there is no Qi in a mountain? Or just a brick? 

 

Not sure I understand this comment, perhaps you can elaborate? 

 

 

[kakapo]

8 hours ago, EFreethought said:

 

Then why not just keep meditating and figure out for yourselves how to advance? I think in "The Magus of Java" the author said that is what the MoPai school did for a few centuries.

 

I know DIY is frowned upon here at The Dao Bums, but as many have pointed out: A lot of knowledge has been lost, particularly in the past couple of centuries. DIY is how the masters originally did it.

 

 

 

Our group believes that the risks outweigh the benefits.

 

We will progress as far as we can with our current system and keep an eye out for evidence of something better.

In the history of mo pai, it took hundreds of years and hundreds of men trying different methods and dying when they discovered incorrect methods to figure out the correct path forward.

 

Many men died to blaze this trail, and we are not too keen to re-invent the wheel at our own expense.

We will either continue with what we do have until we can no longer move forward or locate an alternate system to move to.

[wandelaar]

28 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

I do. E.g. :  a cubic meter of  vacuum is immaterial, a brick is material. Put them together - nothing happens to the both.

 

This is not correct. Spacetime and thus a vacuum has a geometrical structure that will impact on the behavior of the brick, and reversely the brick will influence the geometrical structure of spacetime and thus also the vacuum where the brick is in. So a vacuum according to your own definition should be called TT-material.

 

28 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

E.g, we need a  microscope to see a bacterium  but eventually we will see it by our eye and say that the bacterium is material.

 

The problem remains that it is conceivable that experimental science wil eventually reach a stage where chi can be measured. So calling chi TT-immaterial might be premature. 

 

28 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

information is something that is possessed only  by living beings in their  internal qi-fields. A brick does not have any qi hence no info in him.

 

Information is also possessed bij CD's, computers, books, etc.

[kakapo]

51 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

@Taoist Texts Here you go friend, pay close attention for the light show

 

 

 

Disclaimer: For all those who feel the need for a certain level of nonqualified authorities to verify any claims, I believe that a team of medical doctors and scientists were present during this demonstration and did their best to rule out fraud. They have provided video evidence for you, free from  their own cognitive distortions, selective memory and biases, and sincerely hope it helps

 

Unfortunately, they were obliterated soon after this as they asked for a repeat demo, so they didnt make it. Despite that.  these remnants of the footage still exists

 

Seek out this man at your own risk...

 

We've been in contact with Jalen, the person in this video, and his heart is in the right place.

He desperately wants to pursue training in Mo Pai.

I think deep down he knows there is a greater potential that humans can aspire to, and pop culture like DBZ and Star Wars speak to the deeper parts of his psyche.

I think he is a bit misguided, but probably not a bad person.

[kakapo]

12 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

This is not correct. Spacetime and thus a vacuum has a geometrical structure that will impact on the behavior of the brick, and reversely the brick will influence the geometrical structure of spacetime and thus also the vacuum where the brick is in. So a vacuum according to your own definition should be called TT-material.

 

 

The problem remains that it is conceivable that experimental science wil eventually reach a stage where chi can be measured. So calling chi TT-immaterial might be premature. 

 

 

Information is also possessed bij CD's, computers, books, etc.

 

 

Our demonstration requires a location with no power lines nearby to minimize emf, a grounding rod, and an LED.

Edited February 5, 2023 by kakapo

[Taoist Texts]

10 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Are you saying then, there is no Qi in a mountain? Or just a brick?  Not sure I understand this comment, perhaps you can elaborate? 

I am always glad to. Yes not-living (inanimate) things do not posses any bio-energy by definition. When we feel any energy coming from them  it is caused by  a  brain overload. To cope, the brain  routs the excess of  the  sensory data from the 5 senses into a mental compartment labeled 'Unknown stuff'. Thats what we feel as qi coming from a thing or from a person at a distance.

[Taoist Texts]

28 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

vacuum has a geometrical structure that will impact on the behavior of the brick, and reversely the brick will influence the geometrical structure of spacetime and thus also the vacuum where the brick is in

You see, when we take them apart the brick will still remain the same brick and the vacuum will remain the same vacuum with no traces of them ever interacting. Thats why i claim that the immaterial vacuum and the material brick did not influence each other.

[wandelaar]

Enough for now.

[Shadow_self]

52 minutes ago, kakapo said:

 

We've been in contact with Jalen, the person in this video, and his heart is in the right place.

He desperately wants to pursue training in Mo Pai.

I think deep down he knows there is a greater potential that humans can aspire to, and pop culture like DBZ and Star Wars speak to the deeper parts of his psyche.

I think he is a bit misguided, but probably not a bad person.

 

I appreciate the tolerance  

 

50 minutes ago, kakapo said:

Our demonstration requires a location with no power lines nearby to minimize emf, a grounding rod, and an LED.

 

I'm more curious why you would fly to someone to do a demonstration in the first place?

 

Are you trying to lead by example here or what?

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

I am always glad to. Yes not-living (inanimate) things do not posses any bio-energy by definition. When we feel any energy coming from them  it is caused by  a  brain overload. To cope, the brain  routs the excess of  the  sensory data from the 5 senses into a mental compartment labeled 'Unknown stuff'. Thats what we feel as qi coming from a thing or from a person at a distance.

 

So the earth doesn't have a qi field then? Is this the stance you are taking? 

[kakapo]

45 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I appreciate the tolerance  

 

 

I'm more curious why you would fly to someone to do a demonstration in the first place?

 

Are you trying to lead by example here or what?

 

The motivation here is to convince serious seekers that this is real.