ChiDragon Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Wilhelm said: Here I'm differentiating the two as separate traditions, as although both traditions share a literal meaning and a root of Bodhidharma they've obviously evolved to become very different today - while I have known the Yi Jin Jing to be associated with Chan I have not heard the same for Zen. If you do so, then, we are not speaking with the same meaning of your terms. Again, the Chinese character for Chan and Zen is 禅 from its native language. However, we must use the correct definition in our discussion. Otherwise, we are going circles. Edited January 21, 2023 by ChiDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wilhelm Posted January 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: If you do so, then, we are not speaking with the same meaning of your terms. Again, the Chinese character for Chan and Zen is 禅 from its native language. However, we must use the correct definition in our discussion. Otherwise, we are going circles. That's just as well, our discussion has long passed its 'best before' date! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted January 21, 2023 My understanding is that Chan is Chinese Zen is Japanese brought from China. I am from the complete reality school that combines Taoist and Chinese Buddhism. Both are energy arts. Energy arts means the motivation is beyond the physical and contains the physical applications. In the Taoist tradition Shen (Mind/ spirit) is the most important treasure combined with Chi (Energy) and essence, Jing the original battery if you will. Jing techniques are storage rather than depletion and chi techniques are energy building. Buddhist yoga and shaolin is body and mind Techniques. Of course you have a very comprehensive system with Taoist arts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said: My understanding is that Chan is Chinese Zen is Japanese brought from China. In the Taoist tradition Shen (Mind/ spirit) is the most important treasure combined with Chi (Energy) and essence, Jing the original battery if you will. Jing techniques are storage rather than depletion and chi techniques are energy building. Thanks! Let's stay within the scope of the OP by not going into Shen or Chi. Edited January 21, 2023 by ChiDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted January 22, 2023 Ok, Sorry I mentioned the S and C word that was very inappropriate. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 22, 2023 16 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: Thanks! Let's stay within the scope of the OP by not going into Shen or Chi. Mind and body is well within the scope of Chi and Shen though 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted January 22, 2023 5 hours ago, dmattwads said: My question is aside from systems like Qigong and Yoga asana being healthy for the body, can they be used to cultivate the mind and if so, how so? @ChiDragon How would one go about cultivating the mind using the body bypassing qi and shen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 22, 2023 @ChiDragon do you know what the channel system is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Shadow_self said: Mind and body is well within the scope of Chi and Shen though It may be, it would be more appropriate to discuss it in Neidan(內丹術) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: It may be, it would be more appropriate to discuss it in Neidan(內丹術) Which also involves the cultivation of the mind and body right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, steve said: cultivating the mind As I had said before, cultivating the mind is a mantle thing to enhance one's wisdom and mental health. You are asking a hypothetical question related to Nidan(內丹術). It is a different subject. Edited January 22, 2023 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: @ChiDragon do you know what the channel system is? Yes, it is not to be discussed here! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 22, 2023 Just now, ChiDragon said: Yes, it is not to be discussed here! Why not The channels are what facilitate the expression of the mind in the body Its literally in the thread title What the hell could be more relevant than that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 22, 2023 16 minutes ago, steve said: @ChiDragon How would one go about cultivating the mind using the body bypassing qi and shen? The qi and shen is within the body, how can anyone bypassing them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idquest Posted January 22, 2023 5 hours ago, dmattwads said: It was recommended that I turn a question I asked in another post into it's own post, so here goes. Buddhism basically ignores the body in cultivation and focuses on cultivating the mind with the mind. My question is aside from systems like Qigong and Yoga asana being healthy for the body, can they be used to cultivate the mind and if so, how so? Assuming that the goal of your cultivation is enlightenment/nirvana/samadhi - nothing will bring you to these states as I'm sure you have heard. It is a qualitative jump rather than quantitative when you move from one level to another. What yoga and qigong do - they provide your body-mind with empowerment which may help your make this qualitative jump. Yoga is good for health if practised correctly, so it is a benefit by itself. Silent sitting could also be good for health is you include internal cavity practice in your sits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted January 22, 2023 I believe today there is a lot of confusion about what Yi Jin Jing is and what it's used for. YMAA has a book that describes it as a series of exercises whereas Damo Mitchell says it is something else. Aside from what it is, there seems to be confusion on what it's for. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Shadow_self said: Why not The channels are what facilitate the expression of the mind in the body Its literally in the thread title What the hell could be more relevant than that? If we are talking too many subjects in one thread, it would be a chaos from jumping back and forth with different things. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted January 22, 2023 I think if channels and qi can be made relevant to the topic of cultivating the mind through the body then it is on topic as long as it doesn't become it's own discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: If we are talking too many subjects in one thread, it would be a chaos from jumping back and forth with different things. Its all related man. If you are getting confused ask a question We'll help you figure it out So we use the body to get to the mind via the channels right? Mind body cultivation 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Posted January 22, 2023 Just now, Shadow_self said: So we use the body to get to the mind via the channels right? Mind body cultivation This is exactly the question lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, dmattwads said: This is exactly the question lol This is essentialy what Tantric practice is Daoist methods are tantric Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted January 22, 2023 20 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: The qi and shen is within the body, how can anyone bypassing them? Then why not discuss them in the context of using the body to cultivate the mind? It seems to me they are an integral part of that discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted January 22, 2023 30 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: cultivating the mind is a mantle thing to enhance one's wisdom and mantle health. Mental, not mantle 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, steve said: Mental, not mantle Thanks, I can only learn from my own mistakes. I shall remember and learn from this embarrassment However, if you know the language, no matter how I wrote it you would understand. It goes for me too, I can spot any discrepancy from any interpretation or translation right away too! Get a good laugh @Shadow_self Edited January 22, 2023 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_self Posted January 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: Thanks, I can only learn from my own mistakes. However, if you know the language, no matter how I wrote it you would understand. It goes for me too, I can spot any discrepancy from any interpretation or translation right away too! Get a good laugh @Shadow_self I knew what you meant I just found the word mantle rather amusing. You can appreciate this Chidragon its ok Anyway back to the topic at hand! So, Channels, Mind, Body. Strong relationship right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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