The Grades of Initiation

[Eduardo]

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Edited February 8 by Eduardo
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[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Eduardo said:

The rest of the magical initiations, Masonic and the various mystery schools do not come close to the true initiation.

 

More or less true - but it is likely the first inner initiation will progressively become public.  At the first initiation the human knows rather than believes that Life has meaning.

 

The tide has gone out on many (most?) spiritual movements.  For decades it has been rare to see an inner first initiation occur during Masonic ritual.

 

Still,  processes such as the Christian fundamentalist "ceremony" of declaring oneself for Christ, may sometimes be suitable for the descent of spiritual light sufficient to stablize the applicant in a higher state.  The applicant of course needs to do much preparatory work.  For the first inner initiation this is establishing control of physical desires including finally the desire for power.

 

The human race is progressing and will develop suitable forms and institutions to facilitate inner initiations - sooner or later

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Eduardo said:

The true initiation is spiritual and consists of the most self-sacrificing and pure dedication to disinterested service for all sentient beings. The rest of the magical initiations, Masonic and the various mystery schools do not come close to the true initiation.

 

 

And what is this 'true initiation' ? 

 

Your statement seems  a very limited perspective from one school of thought that has appropriated the very ancient and primal practice of initiation into a  mystical religious system .

 

From the point of view of an actual study of the practice of initiation as a core  human social  bonding and development practice, going back to the paleolithic, it seems the height of arrogance to  see the appropriated  practice as valid  to  only one system or culture and then claim it is the only valid one .

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

More or less true - but it is likely the first inner initiation will progressively become public.  At the first initiation the human knows rather than believes that Life has meaning.

 

The tide has gone out on many (most?) spiritual movements.  For decades it has been rare to see an inner first initiation occur during Masonic ritual.

...

 

 

 

 

I had no idea you where traveling around the world and visiting the    Masonic temples and observing their initiations and their effects .

 

and of course they are happening all the time.   here is a list oif just the Grand Lodges , that control numerous lodges under them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Masonic_Grand_Lodges

 

You gonna be a busy boy observing and judging the worth of all that .

 

But maybe you just  glance into the 'etheric ' and have a little  sign that lights up  " No one achieved initiation successfully this year ."

 

 

Sometimes the 'spiritual ego'  people have and  the  assumptions  people make  ! 

[Lairg]

17 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Sometimes the 'spiritual ego'  people have and  the  assumptions  people make  ! 

 

 

Quite!

[Nungali]

23 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

 

Quite!

 

I am referring to this Lairg

 

For decades it has been rare to see an inner first initiation occur during Masonic ritual.

...

 

How the hell would you know ?

 

if people cant see what that is  ..... you be blind in that area .

[Lairg]

32 minutes ago, Nungali said:

you be blind in that area .

 

So you can see me after all

 

 

[Nungali]

typical response .

 

and very 'transparent' .

[helpfuldemon]

I don't think rituals or oaths or disciplines matter in the end.  The reaction has to be instinctual, otherwise it's not valid as to who you are.

 

On a side not, I've spent so much time and thought trying to come up with a new philosophy, and Wisdom and a path, and now i've decided it doesn't matter;  people will act according to what they decide and what they have experienced.

[Cobie]

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Edited June 29, 2023 by Cobie

[helpfuldemon]

22 years ago I heard a voice speak to me from the sky.  It led me on a chase to discover God, find a way to bring love to the world, and make a difference in this world.  My brain got invaded by wires and voices, and for 22 years I have struggled to learn, to think, and to create.  I have been on a quest.  Now that I have stopped pursuing a revolution, I realize that it is all rather simple, and that people will do what they want.  There is such a wealth of Wisdom and art in this world and I don't think I can do any better.  Now my world is quiet.  I sleep a lot, out of confusion and boredom.  I don't watch TV and I don't read anymore.  Perhaps I will write fiction.

[Cobie]

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Edited June 29, 2023 by Cobie

[helpfuldemon]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

 

 

Neither do I. 

 

 

What do you do to occupy your time?  Its as if I have lost interest in the world.  I've thought too much about it, and now, nothing shocks me.  I'm not curious about anything and I have nothing to say.

[Cobie]

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Edited June 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I don't think rituals or oaths or disciplines matter in the end.  The reaction has to be instinctual, otherwise it's not valid as to who you are.

 

On a side not, I've spent so much time and thought trying to come up with a new philosophy, and Wisdom and a path, and now i've decided it doesn't matter;  people will act according to what they decide and what they have experienced.

 

oaths matter ..... if you keep them . 

[helpfuldemon]

10 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

 

My advice: only write about yourself, as an aid to investigating the confusion; then also you will not be bored anymore.  

 

 

 

 

I don't have a self, it was devoured in my search for truth.  The confusion is simply where are these wires coming from, why were they put into me, why did God speak, what does this mean for me?  These are questions I come to after long examinations of things.  They can't be answered, so I get frustrated and go to bed.

[Lairg]

11 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

where are these wires coming from, why were they put into me, why did God speak

 

In my experience incoming wires are not from God

 

Such wires are interference structures.  I do not put up with them

 

 

[Cobie]

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Edited June 29, 2023 by Cobie

[helpfuldemon]

4 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Your ‘self’ is what’s ‘aware’, aware of e.g. the confusion, the frustration and the “wires”.
 

 

 

There's not much to say about it.  The wires come and cause pressure on me, making me feel hollow and emotionless.  Making me wonder where they come from, what they are for.  That leads to the frustration and confusion.  Then I stop thinking and just go to bed.

[Lairg]

11 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

making me feel hollow and emotionless.  Making me wonder where they come from, what they are for. 

 

Obviously they are adverse.

 

If you have sufficient status/protection you can follow the wires to their immediate sources.

 

The sources have supervisors, some of which operate above human soul level - but on the dark flow.  They should not be approached without a suitable sponsor minding your back

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Lairg

[Cobie]

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Edited June 29, 2023 by Cobie

[helpfuldemon]

I used to fight the implanting of the wires, but that made it worse.  Then I submitted to it and it still was bad.  Now they aren't putting new wires in, just moving the ones there around.

[Nungali]

On 6/25/2023 at 4:02 AM, helpfuldemon said:

What do you do to occupy your time?  Its as if I have lost interest in the world.  I've thought too much about it, and now, nothing shocks me.  I'm not curious about anything and I have nothing to say.

 

Well, you are curious about how Cobie spends his time  

 

and ... errrmmmm .... you seem to have rather a bit to say here  .....   ?

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

There's not much to say about it.  The wires come and cause pressure on me, making me feel hollow and emotionless.  Making me wonder where they come from, what they are for.  That leads to the frustration and confusion.  Then I stop thinking and just go to bed.

 

Cobie  just pointed  out what your self IS ... undeniably , and you affirm that again above ... yet reject it .

 

It is the self which feels hollow and emotionless . 

[Nungali]

26 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

I used to fight the implanting of the wires, but that made it worse.  Then I submitted to it and it still was bad.  Now they aren't putting new wires in, just moving the ones there around.

 

Here is a crazy idea ;

 

maybe they are trying to fix a bad wiring problem someone/thing did  / happened  ?

 

I hope so .   That would be a nice miracle .