Tibetan book of the dead, which translation?

[blue eyed snake]

hello dear bums, want to read the tibetan book of the dead and wonder which translation would suit my needs best.

although probably a mixed bag with advice will come up, that may be useful to me

[awaken]

這本書我三十年前讀過

 

會誤導你

 

I read this book thirty years ago

it will mislead you to the wrong direction

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Admin/mods can we please make sure users have respect towards other religions, lineages and paths?

 

This is getting ridiculous now. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Pak_Satrio

[blue eyed snake]

Thinking on this I would prefer a translation that keeps closer to the original with a lot of dreary annotations above an easier to read but more distorted version.

[blue eyed snake]

5 hours ago, awaken said:

 

I read this book thirty years ago

it will mislead you to the wrong direction

 

I've read it even longer ago and concluded I needed to be a bit older and wiser. So now's the time.

 

[steve]

I think this would be a good option.

 

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/288210/the-tibetan-book-of-the-dead-by-gyurme-dorje/

[blue eyed snake]

15 hours ago, steve said:

I think this would be a good option.

 

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/288210/the-tibetan-book-of-the-dead-by-gyurme-dorje/

 

thankyou, that looks like its the version I need, will buy 

[forestofemptiness]

On 5/5/2022 at 10:05 PM, steve said:

I think this would be a good option.

 

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/288210/the-tibetan-book-of-the-dead-by-gyurme-dorje/

 

I would agree with this and it is the version one of my teacher uses. 

 

However, studying it without the accompanying practices will certainly limit its usefulness. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by forestofemptiness

[stirling]

The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a strange book to have ever become famous. It's real usefulness is in being recited to practitioners familiar with the tradition as they die, and after as the lie in repose. While its descriptions of the post bardo states are intriguing, they aren't likely to be any help to your average Western neophyte. 

 

If the real interest is learning to take apart the nature of reality from a Tibetan Buddhist practice perspective there are MANY books that could recommended instead. If this is the desire, let me know and I'll throw you some recommendations. 

[Miffymog]

7 hours ago, stirling said:

If the real interest is learning to take apart the nature of reality from a Tibetan Buddhist practice perspective there are MANY books that could recommended instead. If this is the desire, let me know and I'll throw you some recommendations. 

 

Please do. At the moment I have a passing intellectual curiosity in this topic, but the more I find out about it the more it grows.

Edited May 9, 2022 by NickC

[blue eyed snake]

the real interest, hm, lemme see

 I just want to reread something I read in my younger years, totally not understanding what I read but apparently intrigued.

 

Just a bit of intellectual curiosity

 

feel free to post titles of some books here, answering the request of NickC .

Edited May 9, 2022 by blue eyed snake

[stirling]

7 hours ago, NickC said:

Please do. At the moment I have a passing intellectual curiosity in this topic, but the more I find out about it the more it grows.

 

I am a fan of both of these books and their authors:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Wake-Your-Life-Discovering-Attention/dp/0062516817

 

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/tibetan-buddhism-from-the-ground-up-a-practical-approach-for-modern-life_b-alan-wallace/355334/item/528431/?gclid=CjwKCAjw9-KTBhBcEiwAr19igxk47znNiYoKLQwZJqfZkOI4F0gefL4Fmhbw4hqc-XhzjTDwCUjzuRoCKYMQAvD_BwE#idiq=528431&edition=4314961

 

If you ARE interesting in a more accessible book on bardos, how to understand them and use them in daily life I heartily recommend this to both you and Mr. B. Snake:

 

https://www.abebooks.com/Mind-Beyond-Death-Ponlop-Dzogchen-Snow/31177178412/bd?cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Trade_10to20-_-product_id=COM9781559393010USED-_-keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAjw9-KTBhBcEiwAr19ig6Tr8xWyzEaKznalMElmbodDoAA6d7TH0Fey7b47XwVXqfualpNbFRoCpHMQAvD_BwE

[Nungali]

Post Mortum instruction and guidance is no doubt essential study , yet as some point out,  Tibetan Book of the Dead  is very 'culturally focused' on that tradition .

 

In the west , this is what the 3rd degree initiation is about .    I have  been working with a friend , over the years who desires to undertake initiation in such a tradition so I have been helping them  ( yes, I am qualified to do this in Western tradition and  did it for a few years , now retired ) .  Thing is , since retiring I am not qualified to do THAT specific tradition any more ,  but this person does not want that anyway  and wants to avoid 'organisations' .

 

So I have  written up some specific initiations, based on essentials  ( and yes, I am qualified to write up  rituals , that was one of my tests I had to pass for 'advancement' ) and the usual schemata of western (and many other ) initiation systems , ie, three basic rituals ( for starters) representing the mysteries of incarnation and birth , life and death .    We are up to  second one and I am working on the third one - death .  Obviously it is not going to be from the Tibetan Book of the Dead .  It has to be something this person can comprehend and has an affinity with . Personally, I prefer the Egyptian system , but that would not be for  this person .

 

Then , some years back I came upon Normandy Ellis' 'Awakening Osiris '  - transliterations of the 'Egyptian Book of the Dead '  and one of her chapters ; ' Moving into the Light ', is rather a wonderful masterpiece , I  know it will absolutely resonate with this person . So that chapter will hold the central 'visualisation'  /  oratory heard in 'trance'  ( ie. enacted  'death' ) of the  initiate .  Ellis seems to have captured the ancient 'valid essence' and imagery , yet presented it in modern comprehensible and artistic form .   Some of the chapter even reads , where it details some specifics , as if it was written for this person and their life experience - that is the person, in this chapter 'story' and my friend  - and their death experience  , is a woman who dedicated her life to helping children and others ... yet a fiery defensive character , that stands up to wrongdoing ;

 

" ..... when the children where hungry , I gave them bread,

when they where threatened , I threw an axe into the face of evil .... "

 

If I could find an online copy , I'd post it here  .    

 

Anyway , the point is ;  a valid work may not resonate with you if you dont understand or are even not familiar with its cultural clothing  and a lot of what IS written in our cultural  clothing may not have a fuller or relevant understanding of a process .

 

- for some reason , I am reminded of an 'evil opposite '  .... an ex of mine caused a BIG kerfuffle at her mums funeral, at the graveside  !

 

Priest :  " Oh Lord , forgive this SINNER and let her pass into ..... blah blah .... this SINNER  did this ....  born in  SIN she was but ....  " etc .

 

Daughter : " Stop calling my Mother a sinner !  She was not, she was good woman ...  and       < rant ... rave ....  >

 

- Good on her ! 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Nungali

[Miffymog]

(Apologies for the mild derailing of the thread and to Nungali)

 

Being a sinner in no way means you're a bad person, it is merely a way to acknowledge that there have been times in your life when you have not done the right thing, and doing so is a very powerful spiritual practice.

 

Coming back to the topic of the thread a bit more, doing this near or at the time of death, when your belief system may involve some kind of judgement or determination as to the next phase of your existence, could be seen as something that is beneficial.

 

However, without this possibly subtle interpretation of the word, it is easy to see how the regular use of it at a funeral service could cause quite some upset.

Edited May 10, 2022 by NickC

[blue eyed snake]

12 hours ago, stirling said:

If you ARE interesting in a more accessible book on bardos, how to understand them and use them in daily life I heartily recommend this to both you and Mr. B. Snake:

 

I've become a slow reader in old age so it'll take time to get to the next book, these look interesting though, thank you.

[blue eyed snake]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

the point is ;  a valid work may not resonate with you if you dont understand or are even not familiar with its cultural clothing  and a lot of what IS written in our cultural  clothing may not have a fuller or relevant understanding of a process .

 

yeah, of course and I get that.

 

I had a near death experience as a teen, shortly after the Tibetan book of the dead somehow ended up in my hands. It was beyond me but also there was a yearning to the content so to speak. I wont get much older or wiser so  therefore I want to see what happens now, that's the reason I want to read that specific book and not something else. After that, who knows.

Th Egyptian book of the dead is a nice book- suggestion, may look into that.

 

Good your ex did not put up with it, whoever talks at the final parting, it should be done with the emotions of the attending loved ones in mind. It's an important moment in time and I am sorry for that lady as her memory of the funeral will always be mingled with (righteous) anger at that priest.

[forestofemptiness]

My favorite is Peaceful Death, Joyful Rebirth by Tulku Thondop. In addition to teachings and traditional sources, he also draws on the experience of delogs and NDEs. 

[S:C]

On 9.5.2022 at 5:24 AM, stirling said:

practice perspective there are MANY books that could recommended instead

I'd like that. Also those that explain the 'bardo states' or 'death' from the tibetan perspective in general and abstract while being understandable and not full of poetry.

 

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

have  been working with a friend , over the years who desires to undertake initiation in such a tradition

Are you at liberty to say which tradition you were teaching?

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

Moving into the Light '

 

9 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

near death experience

Interesting, for some it's light (so also Andy Irons, the Surfer), others see/hear their God, others simply watch from above, others...

[stirling]

2 hours ago, schroedingerscat said:

I'd like that. Also those that explain the 'bardo states' or 'death' from the tibetan perspective in general and abstract while being understandable and not full of poetry.

 

This is the one I would check out:

 

https://www.abebooks.com/Mind-Beyond-Death-Ponlop-Dzogchen-Snow/31177178412/bd?cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Trade_10to20-_-product_id=COM9781559393010USED-_-keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAjw9-KTBhBcEiwAr19ig6Tr8xWyzEaKznalMElmbodDoAA6d7TH0Fey7b47XwVXqfualpNbFRoCpHMQAvD_BwE

[blue eyed snake]

20 hours ago, schroedingerscat said:

Interesting, for some it's light (so also Andy Irons, the Surfer), others see/hear their God, others simply watch from above, others...

 

some years ago I read the book from P. van Lommel, a cardiologist who systematically asked people who survived cardiac arrest whether something happened during the time they were out.

 

When I remember well there was much overlap between the stories.

there's a publication in the Lancet and a book.

 

https://pimvanlommel.nl/en/

 

[looschmaster]

On 5/5/2022 at 9:40 AM, awaken said:

這本書我三十年前讀過

 

會誤導你

 

I read this book thirty years ago

it will mislead you to the wrong direction

Don't let the haters get to you awaken, I appreciate the posts. Perhaps some of them are wrong, I'm not sure, but it's good to see differences of opinion.