Original Dao Bums

[Straybird]

24 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I'm not so sure this is true, or that it's as true as it once was.  Personally, I hope the forum remains a place where a wide variety of folks feel comfortable expressing themselves.  For this reason, I'm OK with the mods stamping out, for instance, white supremacist screeds.  But in practice I suspect that most bullshit -- even from conservative cows -- would pass muster.  

 

Well I am not talking about white supremacist nonsense, that wouldn't be welcome on originaltao.com either.

 

Thedaobums.com owner has made it absolutely clear that certain points of view are not welcome here and those that want to express those views should go elsewhere. 

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/49572-no-more-right-wing-bullshit/

 

Quote

 

We might need a bullet list. Here we go:

• If you're pro-Trump, please leave.
• If you're right-wing, please leave.

 

 

 

Unless he chimes back in and says he's changed his mind, then there needs to be somewhere else for people on the other side of the fence to talk about those topics.

 

Originaldao.com filled that niche, and then some, but it cost too much, time, money and energy to maintain and that left those people with nowhere to go.

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, Straybird said:

 

What I mean is that certain political ideas, and worldviews are not allowed here, these topics would be allowed to be discussed on Reddit unless they crossed over into territory that was considered abusive or illegal. 

 

Right now Reddit is just a stopgap,  I mean I suppose we could register a free forum website if you feel that would work better?

 

Reddit seems pretty ubiquitous, easy to use, and register though.

 

Do you feel https://www.proboards.com/ would be a better solution than Reddit?

 

As to it not being a true Taoist forum,  I see no reason it couldn't be. 

 

In terms of community it will be hard to beat thedaobums.com, but maybe it would be nice to be around people who share your political beliefs and worldviews, or at least allow for discussions on them to take place.

 

I think orginaldao.com failed because of the amount of time, money and energy it took to maintain it's existence.

 

When I was talking with my friend we did our best to come up with a solution that was cheap, and easy to maintain.

 

Please let me know if you have any ideas that can help.

 

 

Why create a "Taoist" forum to discuss politics?

 

Why not just call it "original-politics" if thats the aim?

 

Just so people understand what you are trying to achieve here

 

 

[Straybird]

19 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Suppose the new forum would contain just a few new post every week, no more. And on most days there would be no activity at all. Would you still consider it a success then? If I remember well that was the level of activity at the end of the Original Dao.

 

You could start on Reddit, that's a good idea. But you have to realize that Reddit isn't completely free either. Personally I don't even think it wise to have a forum that's completely free, because that would mean that the most fanatic and bullying characters would dominate the discussions. The carefully chosen words of those who speak but little would drown in the chatter and agitation of those who like to hear themselves. Such would certainly not be a Taoist forum. Particularly not when all Taoist topics that can safely be discussed here on TDB are not discussed on the new OriginalTao forum. What Taoist topics would then be left for the new forum?

 

In my opinion the basic rule for any forum should be civility. What I disliked here when I joined OriginalDao was the Political Correctness that was added to the demand for civility.

 

Some topics can't happen here, and in my opinion there should be a place where they can.

 

No one else has stepped up to provide such a thing since originaldao.com closed.

 

I understand that maybe a main landing page and a subreddit are not as elegant a solution as a self hosted forum, but that costs a lot of time, money, and energy which is why the originaldao.com failed.

 

Anything that reddit.com would find so offensive that they wouldn't allow discussion on is also something which wouldn't be appropriate for originaltao.com

 

We could move from reddit to proboards or forummotion if you feel that have better aesthetics or provide some other benefit?

[Straybird]

11 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

Why create a "Taoist" forum to discuss politics?

 

Why not just call it "original-politics" if thats the aim?

 

Just so people understand what you are trying to achieve here

 

 

 

Ideally it would be more than just politics, etc.

 

It would be discussions on anything, but hopefully taoist, buddhist, and spiritual paths would be the main focus.

 

Originaldao allowed for more freedom than is allowed here, but unfortunately it closed down.

 

As to what my friend and I are trying to achieve is just to revive the spirit of the original dao community, as cheaply and easily as is possible.

[Straybird]

37 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Suppose the new forum would contain just a few new post every week, no more. And on most days there would be no activity at all. Would you still consider it a success then? If I remember well that was the level of activity at the end of the Original Dao.

 

You could start on Reddit, that's a good idea. But you have to realize that Reddit isn't completely free either. Personally I don't even think it wise to have a forum that's completely free, because that would mean that the most fanatic and bullying characters would dominate the discussions. The carefully chosen words of those who speak but little would drown in the chatter and agitation of those who like to hear themselves. Such would certainly not be a Taoist forum. Particularly not when all Taoist topics that can safely be discussed here on TDB are not discussed on the new OriginalTao forum. What Taoist topics would then be left for the new forum?

 

In my opinion the basic rule for any forum should be civility. What I disliked here when I joined OriginalDao was the Political Correctness that was added to the demand for civility.

 

Do you feel proboards or forumotion would be a better fit than reddit.com ?

[wandelaar]

There's no need for another forum to talk politics pure and simple, because there are more than enough of them already. There might be a place for a forum to talk about Taoist conceptions of government that doesn't rule out right wing interpretations by decree of the site owner. But I doubt if such a limited subject matter would be enough to start a new forum with. After all even OriginalDao was about Taoism and spirituality in the broadest sense. I don't understand why one would like to talk about politics pure and simple (that is: unrelated to Taoism) on a Taoist forum. 

 

I have no problem with Reddit as a way to start a new forum, and see how it goes.

[Straybird]

5 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

There's no need for another forum to talk politics pure and simple, because there are more than enough of them already. There might be a place for a forum to talk about Taoist conceptions of government that doesn't rule out right wing interpretations by decree of the site owner. But I doubt if such a limited subject matter would be enough to start a new forum with. After all even OriginalDao was about Taoism and spirituality in the broadest sense. I don't understand why one would like to talk about politics pure and simple (that is: unrelated to Taoism) on a Taoist forum. 

 

I have no problem with Reddit as a way to start a new forum, and see how it goes.

 

Think of this as the spiritual successor to originaldao.com.

 

I and my friend do feel there is a need for it to continue to exist.

 

To be honest it's not just about politics, it's about mindset.

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Straybird said:

 

Well I am not talking about white supremacist nonsense, that wouldn't be welcome on originaltao.com either.

 

Thedaobums.com owner has made it absolutely clear that certain points of view are not welcome here and those that want to express those views should go elsewhere. 

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/49572-no-more-right-wing-bullshit/

 

 

 

Unless he chimes back in and says he's changed his mind, then there needs to be somewhere else for people on the other side of the fence to talk about those topics.

 

Originaldao.com filled that niche, and then some, but it cost too much, time, money and energy to maintain and that left those people with nowhere to go.

 

So you agree that everything that is banned here should be banned  elsewhere and on any new site you create ... except the very thing the owner of THIS site specifically asked people NOT to do?

 

So you want somewhere to go to talk  about the Greatness of Trump ?   Go and do it then, but dont advertise here .

 

You guys where supposed to piss off .   

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

There's no need for another forum to talk politics pure and simple, because there are more than enough of them already. There might be a place for a forum to talk about Taoist conceptions of government that doesn't rule out right wing interpretations by decree of the site owner. But I doubt if such a limited subject matter would be enough to start a new forum with. After all even OriginalDao was about Taoism and spirituality in the broadest sense. I don't understand why one would like to talk about politics pure and simple (that is: unrelated to Taoism) on a Taoist forum. 

 

I have no problem with Reddit as a way to start a new forum, and see how it goes.

 

 

" Taoist Conceptions of Government that Doesn't Rule Out Right Wing Interpretations by Decree of the Site Owner Bums "

 

@    Taoistconceptionsofgovernmentthatdoesn'truleoutrightwinginterpretationsbydecreeofthesiteowner.com

[wandelaar]

Something wrong?

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, Straybird said:

 

Think of this as the spiritual successor to originaldao.com.

 

I and my friend do feel there is a need for it to continue to exist.

 

To be honest it's not just about politics, it's about mindset.

 

Just so im understanding you correctly, because I may not be 

 

You both want to create a spiritual successor, to a forum you didnt contribute to?

 

This is what I am taking from it. Are you planning to post in this new forum? 

[Shadow_self]

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Taoist conceptions of government

 

Is there even such a thing?

[wandelaar]

@Shadow-self

 

Sure - just read the Tao Te Ching.

[Shadow_self]

27 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Sure - just read the Tao Te Ching.

 

I think you are reading it wrong my friend It has nothing to do with politics really. That's a rather clever literary device

[wandelaar]

Yes - that's the fate of all classic religio-philosophical texts. People usually refuse to read what they say, and instead make them say what they want by means of allegorical and symbolical reinterpretation. If you like the TTC that way, so be it.

[Shadow_self]

24 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Yes - that's the fate of all classic religio-philosophical texts. People usually refuse to read what they say, and instead make them say what they want by means of allegorical and symbolical reinterpretation. If you like the TTC that way, so be it.

 

Well actually,  There is a very clear path set out in there.

 

Of course those who either genuinely don't know, or who are too proud or distracted to seek out such instruction divert to incomplete information in order to arrive at a suboptimal, yet self satisfactory conclusion

 

But they miss out on the actual value of the text in favour of their head resting a little easier on their pillow each night 

 

Sometimes its important to realize how these things were meant to be interpreted

 

Symbolism is the language of the mysteries after all  

 

 

[wandelaar]

I rest my case.

[Shadow_self]

38 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

I rest my case.

 

You should probably state one worthy of actual consideration first

 

But I get it, for most people it is easier to circumvent the effort and just "think" you understand

 

There's no substitution for experience though.

 

But you see there is this ever increasing narrative emerging where people believe that  by reading something, they somehow understand it. Its rather sad when you start seeing people do this, because you just know they could get so much more from it,

 

Except that they insist on tripping themselves up you see  

 

If you think the people who wrote the Dao De Jing were trying to convey a political message, You really need to go and find someone who knows how to  actually interpret as it was intended it to teach you whats really in there.

 

You can go and practice and figure it out for yourself then (and perhaps discover that practical advice you just opened a thread about)

Edited January 17, 2023 by Shadow_self

[liminal_luke]

The Dao De Jing -- A New Translation

 

Chapter One: The Dao that can be spoken is not the real Dao.

 

Chapter Two: No more right wing bullshit.

 

The End

[steve]

@Straybird

You may want to share your invitation on these threads:

 

 

 

Good luck with your endeavor!

[wandelaar]

9 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

The Dao De Jing -- A New Translation

 

Chapter One: The Dao that can be spoken is not the real Dao.

 

Chapter Two: No more right wing bullshit.

 

The End

 

It's an easy win when the other side has no way to express it's own interpretation.

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

It's an easy win when the other side has no way to express it's own interpretation.

 

My "translation" of the DDJ above was meant as a joke.  

 

If somebody feels the need for another forum on Reddit or anywhere else, well, that could be a very good thing.  I hope it thrives.  But I think you're mistaken when you say that the "other side has no way to express it's own interpretation."  Yes it's true that at one point Sean told right wing members of the board to go.  That was then, this is now.  I suspect that in practice -- if not theory -- right wing members would find this a hospitable place to say what's on their mind  (so long as they did so in a respectful, civil manner). 

 

While I consider myself mostly a leftie, I've also expressed views which don't accord with the prevailing progressive stance.  Who knows, perhaps my future here has been a hot topic among the moderators?  In any case my views have not gotten me kicked off the board, much to the chagrin of at least one board member I'm sure.  There might be more room for debate here than you think.

Edited January 17, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

24 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

My "translation" of the DDJ above was meant as a joke.  

 

If somebody feels the need for another forum on Reddit or anywhere else, well, that could be a very good thing.  I hope it thrives.  But I think you're mistaken when you say that the "other side has no way to express it's own interpretation."  Yes it's true that at one point Sean told right wing members of the board to go.  That was then, this is now.  I suspect that in practice -- if not theory -- right wing members would find this a hospitable place to say what's on their mind  (so long as they did so in a respectful, civil manner). 

 

While I consider myself mostly a leftie, I've also expressed views which don't accord with the prevailing progressive stance.  Who knows, perhaps my future here has been a hot topic among the moderators?  In any case my views have not gotten me kicked off the board, much to the chagrin of at least one board member I'm sure.  There might be more room for debate here than you think.

 

Running an internet website is like cooking a small fish.

 

 

[liminal_luke]

4 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Running an internet website is like cooking a small fish.

 

 

 

I've never been to Sean's for dinner but I suspect he's more Captain Ahab than James Beard.  Fortunately, the mod team is well situated with folks who know their way around a frying pan.

[Apech]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I've never been to Sean's for dinner but I suspect he's more Captain Ahab than James Beard.  Fortunately, the mod team is well situated with folks who know their way around a frying pan.

 

... and finding their way out of the frying pan into the fire