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Hello, good afternoon!:D

 

Some time ago I started a topic here about this practice, but I haven't started practicing yet. Now I'm commited to do it because I have some traumas and phobias and I want to get rid of them to live a more healthy life.

 

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1- What is the correct order to do the sounds? 

Mantak Chia start with lungs but I've read some topics here where people would start with LIVER and then KIDNEYS-LUNG-SPLEEN-HEARTH-TRIPLE BURNER(a complete different order from Mantak's teachings).

 

2- Should I practice seated and focused on the sounds or should I do movements along with the sounds?

Mantak teaches some movements to do while you do the sounds, but I've read that you can do the sounds only sitting still without moving, only breathing and focusing on the sounds.

 

3- Should I do the sounds audible or inaudible?

I've read that audible sounds are better for physical issues and inaudible sounds are better for psychological issues(my goal). I also read that you shouldn't do the sounds audible.

 

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Thanks in advance!!

 

P.S. English is not my first language, so maybe I made some mistakes in writing, but I hope it's understandable :) 

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I personally don't trust mantak chia as a qualified practitioner.  

 

I am not an expert at systems focusing on the internal organs, but can give some insights. First is that each person is different in terms of where they have heavy amounts garbage. Some organs might be completely cleared while others stagnant. Listening to your body and making an intuitive judgement on where to start may be best.

 

There are many kinds of healing sounds...it may be helpful to use mantric sounds which are in tune with your own elemental composition as cleansing tools. For example, some an affinity for the runic system or sanskrit, so they can draw sounds from there for internal healing. Additionally, blessing your food and drink to help cleans your organs is killing 2 birds with 1 stone. 

 

Other systems of key sounds are out there, OM is an all general mantra that is quite safe to use.  

 

 

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The enlightened master Nan Huai-Jin sometimes taught the six healing sounds practice to people. He emphasized that many variations go wrong simply because they teach saying the healing sounds out loud. He claimed that they should be said silently and that the shape of the mouth is the only thing that matters. This has ties to the classic theory of breathing in Chinese Buddhist meditation practice:

 

Quote

Zhiyi classifies breathing into four main categories: Panting (喘), Unhurried breathing (風), Deep and quiet breathing (氣), and Stillness or rest (息). Zhiyi holds that the first three kinds of breathing are incorrect, while the fourth is correct, and that the breathing should reach stillness and rest.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiantai#Meditation-practice

 

As far as I understand it's about training towards a smooth and long breathing, which will help pacifying the heart and spirit. Arriving at stillness is the next step, and it cannot be forced in any manner.

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And just to add another confusing element into the mix...

 

I’ve learned the organ sounds completely differently to how Mantak and others teach them. I’ve learned them as the result rather than the cause of inner healing... meaning it’s other qigong training that you do, and you find yourself spontaneously making the organ sounds... there is no objectively ‘correct’ order because they’ll come up in the correct order for you by themselves. 
 

Contriving the sounds doesn’t work - it’s flipping the cause and effect of the process - in the same way as photoshopping yourself a higher bank balance doesn’t make you rich.

 

What master Nan teaches sounds quite different - much deeper, and more in line with mantra practice than the funny organ sounds that come up. I’d imagine that to make the mantra practice be effective, you’d need a baseline of inner development and/or an empowerment for each of the sounds.

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On 8/19/2020 at 9:39 AM, freeform said:

What master Nan teaches sounds quite different - much deeper, and more in line with mantra practice than the funny organ sounds that come up. I’d imagine that to make the mantra practice be effective, you’d need a baseline of inner development and/or an empowerment for each of the sounds.

 

I learned from a student of master Nan Huai Chin, and he said the main point was that by exhaling out with certain mouth shapes or sounds, one "tunes" the breath. And that the importance was really to focus on where the exhalation ends. Then one waits for the inbreath to naturally come back. Before the breath "comes back" one remains within the gap between breaths. After continuing doing this, one will eventually reach a point where the gap after exhalation increases. At a certain point of development this leads to complete cessation of "outer" breath. At this point inner breathing starts happening. 

 

That's really the method I understood from Master Nan's anapanasati and related techniques - entering authentic emptiness through quieting the breath completely, until you reach breath cessation. 

 

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20 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

That's really the method I understood from Master Nan's anapanasati and related techniques


Yeah - clearly very different to the organ sounds. 
 

The organ sounds are what spontaneously come up as zifagong type reactions. And they’re never exactly the same as for example Mantak teaches them. 
 

For example the ‘kidney sound’ is usually a variation of groaning (almost sexual type noises)...

 

There are of course various types of hissing and haaaing and so on. 
 

What Mantak seems to be attempting is to take these sounds and manufacture them in the hope that they would affect the organs. Which is IMO, putting the cart before the horse.


This is very much the case with the majority of his system (and sadly many others) which basically involves imagining and contriving various classical confirmatory signs and experiences - rather than training in a way that creates these experiences as a byproduct of actual cultivation.

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Technically rotating the sounds is not a good idea.  It means same stimulus to all the organs/channels, which may range from stagnant, weak, normal to over-active.  Chinese medicine would recommend checking the organs strengths before undergoing stimulation or repression. 

 

Movements with the sounds may enhance the effect, but also can dilute the concentration.

 

Inaudible sounds are frequently made by Buddhist monks.  There is practical consideration when they are doing it for hours.  Prolonged making sounds would deplete them.  It is very different from normal city dwellers doing it for 10 mins a day.

 

 

 

 

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On 21/08/2020 at 10:28 PM, freeform said:


 

What Mantak seems to be attempting is to take these sounds and manufacture them in the hope that they would affect the organs. Which is IMO, putting the cart before the horse.


This is very much the case with the majority of his system (and sadly many others) which basically involves imagining and contriving various classical confirmatory signs and experiences - rather than training in a way that creates these experiences as a byproduct of actual cultivation.

 

I would agree, however what are types of practices that you think put the horse before the cart?

 

 

I see healing sounds as mantak teaches it as making the sounds to shake/vibrate and relax the organ, then wait and let the fruit of your effort have it's effect. Bit like rowing a boat, row, then glide.

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2 hours ago, z00se said:

I would agree, however what are types of practices that you think put the horse before the cart?


The genuine ones 😄

 

It’s hard question to answer - depends on the tradition and often the teacher who is teaching the tradition.

 

 

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